Article 50 decision imminent! Parliament could vote.

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I hated the referendum to start with (I don't believe such crucial things should be voted on in a country where the mass media tell oceans of lies and are manipulated from abroad by special interests) and I believe it should be with parliament.

I think there will be more trouble in Parliament than people think over this and MPs will come under strong pressure to add stipulations that we must stay in the Single Market, etc.

Firstly, I dislike your general lefty nonsense, but I did vote to remain and I think a strong currency and being able to move around Europe easily would just have been preferable, I mean FFS will I need health insurance to go to France.

You're acting as if the Lib Dems have a majority in the commons, we have a reactionary Conservative majority and weak opposition, a significant proportion of whom actually support leaving the EU anyway. Even if the opposition were united against Brexit, Theresa May would still be able to get a hard-ish Brexit through the Commons. This whole episode reminds me of Barack Obama abstaining on the UNSC vote relating to Israel, it's lame duck leftists unaware that by making things more difficult for the victors, the backlash will have a worse outcome from their perspective.

Reply 21

QE2

Original post by Willy Pete

And there was me thinking that the people had already said what they wanted.

Only 35% of "the people". And many of that number had absolutely no idea what they were voting for. I saw people saying they voted Leave to "stop Muslims", "save the NHS", "stop Brussels making our laws" and "we've had enough of experts".

Should such people really be in control of the UKs foreign and economic policy?
Why not have a referendum on whether we should have to pay tax? Let's see how that goes.

Reply 22

Willy Pete

Original post by QE2

I really couldn't give a ****. Brexit will still go ahead regardless of today's judgement, it will just be more ****ing about.

Reply 23

Fullofsurprises

Original post by l'etranger

A number of Labour MPs are saying already that they will break ranks and demand amendments.

The SNP will likely go all out to get the bill changed.

The Lords will be obstructive.

Some Tory MPs are starting to say that they want guarantees about the Single Market.

It isn't nearly as much of a done deal as people think, especially since May's position is rather weak. (No doubt why she blusters so much about everything being beyond changing. :teehee:

)

Reply 24

ManiaMuse

Original post by l'etranger

Health insurance? Do you mean travel insurance? If you're travelling to France then you really should have travel insurance anyway to cover emergency healthcare. An EHIC card doesn't even cover the complete cost of most emergency treatments in France. It just means that they will treat you in the first place and you have to pay a patient contribution (which you can then claim back off your travel insurance).

How do you think UK citizens travel to parts of the world outside the EU and get access to emergency healthcare?

Reply 25

l'etranger

Original post by ManiaMuse

I probably should have edited it to live tbh, but I have no idea why I would want to live there.

Reply 26

ManiaMuse

Original post by l'etranger

I probably should have edited it to live tbh, but I have no idea why I would want to live there.

If you are living and working in France as an expat you already have to sign up with one of the state healthcare insurance companies and pay a monthly premium + patient contribution when you receive treatment.

Reply 27

the bear

let's hope that the launch of Brexit goes better than that of Trident :teehee:

Reply 28

Willy Pete

Original post by the bear

let's hope that the launch of Brexit goes better than that of Trident :teehee:

I really expected something a little better from you, Trident was launched decades ago.

Reply 29

Fullofsurprises

Original post by the bear

let's hope that the launch of Brexit goes better than that of Trident :teehee:

To look on the bright side, it is implausible that the Parliamentary outcome will nuke Miami.

Reply 30

the bear

Original post by Fullofsurprises

To look on the bright side, it is implausible that the Parliamentary outcome will nuke Miami.

but there will be considerable fallout...

Reply 31

Fullofsurprises

The FTSE is up - evidently the City wants the Single Market and thinks this is the start of that road.

I'm genuinely puzzled how Theresa May can lead the Conservative Party in complete opposition to what the bulk of Britain's corporate sector wants. In short, it won't last.

Meanwhile, Labour's Kier Starmer is confirming that Labour will seek to amend, contrary to the nonsense spouted by Corbyn:

"
I think it would be against the spirit of the judgement if the government tried to introduce a one-clause bill. The judgement clearly envisages the normal procedures, and that would involve amendments and consideration in both houses. So I hope now we’ll have the proper and full debate and a proper role for parliament as envisaged.
If it’s a simple piece of legislation we would then want to amend it to ensure parliament should have a proper role, and a meaningful role in the process. So if it is a short-form bill we do indicate that we will be putting down amendments.
"

Reply 32

LisaNikita

Globalism is just a way of putting minority groups down. In Europe, legal immigrants would be most affected by staying in the EU.

Reply 33

TimmonaPortella

Fraser Nelson on point as ever http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/supreme-court-judgement-like-brexit-vote-defended-sovereignty-parliament/

Looking forward to Iron Lady II pushing Clean Brexit through Parliament regardless

Reply 34

macromicro

Original post by QE2

I agree, but one cannot in the same breath praise democracy yet deny referendums on crucial decisions. How is the hoi polloi considered fit to vote for its leader if not considered fit to vote in referendums?

Your criticism also applies equally to Remain voters - who were an even smaller percentage of the people.

Reply 35

midnightice

Original post by Fullofsurprises

Yes, everyone in the country is duped and brainwashed by the media, incapable of thinking for themselves. Is that why the BBC and The Guardian churned out project fear nonsense?

Reply 36

username878267

What an absolute waste of taxpayers money for the government.

Reply 37

Fullofsurprises

Original post by TimmonaPortella

I'm trying to think what the fake equivalent of iron is. :teehee:

I'm glad Fraser Nelson agrees with my main point that it was profoundly against our constitutional democracy for the PM to claim she could simply steamroller this, but the question remains, just what kind of unprincipled government do we have? One that places ideology above constitution and commits huge falsehoods on critical matters, claiming she had that right when she didn't.

There does seem to be a growing crisis of democracy in Britain. The Supreme Court has temporarily applied a patch, but the crisis remains, of an untrammeled hard right power group demanding their agenda at all costs.

Reply 38

astutehirstute

Original post by Fullofsurprises

The referendum that gave Scotland its parliament was not treated as something the Prime Minister could then rubber stamp with no recourse to the Westminster parliament - it required an act debated and approved by national MPs.

What May is trying to do strongly resembles the dictatorship powers of Henry VIII and she's even seeking to use one of his legal mechanisms to do it!

This with a tiny majority in the House. You couldn't make it up.

It isn't the Commons that matters. It will pass easily because a lot of Labour MPs know on which side their bread needs to be buttered.

The Lords will prove the stumbling block. Amazing how soi distant progressives are lining up with a bunch of unelected nobles and political placemen and cronies.

My money is on a General Election this year with the unelected Lords blocking the people being the issue.

And, as ever, seemingly nowadays, the left will be on the wrong side of this debate. With Labour being decimated as the party of immigration and in.

Say what you like about Brexit it has made politics exciting! We could see the end of the Labour Party and the House of Lords at the end of all this. :smile:

Reply 39

sound of silence

Original post by TimmonaPortella

This paragraph doesn't make sense:

The 17.4 million who voted for Britain to leave the European Union were giving advice, rather than an instruction, to Parliament. This ought not to be a controversial point. As the judgement said, David Cameron chose to hold a consultative referendum, rather than a legally-binding one (as the AV referendum had been). And why wasn’t the EU referendum legally binding? For the same reason that the 2014 Scottish referendum wasn’t legally-binding: it would be unthinkable for parliament to ignore such “advice”, or stand athwart the result of that referendum. That’s not how we do things in Britain. The Irish may ask people to vote again if they give the wrong answer in an EU referendum; the French president may act in defiance of referendums there. But in Britain, there is – or should be – no serious prospect of politicians trying to subvert direct democracy.

His reason that the referendum was not legally-binding is that it would be "unthinkable for parliament to ignore" the result. If it is indeed so unthinkable, why wasn't the referendum legally-binding instead of consultative? What's the point having it consultative if it is so unthinkable? Parliament can of course, if they wish, ignore or "stand athwart the result". His promise that that's just not how we Brits do things is meaningless. Why give politicians the option of being able to "subvert direct democracy" with a consultative referendum? Surely it's better for his argument simply to make it legally-binding?