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Article 50 decision imminent! Parliament could vote. Watch

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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I hated the referendum to start with (I don't believe such crucial things should be voted on in a country where the mass media tell oceans of lies and are manipulated from abroad by special interests) and I believe it should be with parliament.

    I think there will be more trouble in Parliament than people think over this and MPs will come under strong pressure to add stipulations that we must stay in the Single Market, etc.
    Firstly, I dislike your general lefty nonsense, but I did vote to remain and I think a strong currency and being able to move around Europe easily would just have been preferable, I mean FFS will I need health insurance to go to France.

    You're acting as if the Lib Dems have a majority in the commons, we have a reactionary Conservative majority and weak opposition, a significant proportion of whom actually support leaving the EU anyway. Even if the opposition were united against Brexit, Theresa May would still be able to get a hard-ish Brexit through the Commons. This whole episode reminds me of Barack Obama abstaining on the UNSC vote relating to Israel, it's lame duck leftists unaware that by making things more difficult for the victors, the backlash will have a worse outcome from their perspective.
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    (Original post by Willy Pete)
    And there was me thinking that the people had already said what they wanted.
    Only 35% of "the people". And many of that number had absolutely no idea what they were voting for. I saw people saying they voted Leave to "stop Muslims", "save the NHS", "stop Brussels making our laws" and "we've had enough of experts".

    Should such people really be in control of the UKs foreign and economic policy?
    Why not have a referendum on whether we should have to pay tax? Let's see how that goes.
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      (Original post by Mr. Speaker)
      People are not clever enough to make these decisions - this is why we pay people we elect to make them for us. Referendums are a terrible terrible idea imo
      "The best argument against democracy is a 5-minute conversation with the average voter"
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      (Original post by QE2)
      Only 35% of "the people". And many of that number had absolutely no idea what they were voting for. I saw people saying they voted Leave to "stop Muslims", "save the NHS", "stop Brussels making our laws" and "we've had enough of experts".

      Should such people really be in control of the UKs foreign and economic policy?
      Why not have a referendum on whether we should have to pay tax? Let's see how that goes.
      I really couldn't give a ****. Brexit will still go ahead regardless of today's judgement, it will just be more ****ing about.
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      (Original post by l'etranger)
      Firstly, I dislike your general lefty nonsense, but I did vote to remain and I think a strong currency and being able to move around Europe easily would just have been preferable, I mean FFS will I need health insurance to go to France.

      You're acting as if the Lib Dems have a majority in the commons, we have a reactionary Conservative majority and weak opposition, a significant proportion of whom actually support leaving the EU anyway. Even if the opposition were united against Brexit, Theresa May would still be able to get a hard-ish Brexit through the Commons. This whole episode reminds me of Barack Obama abstaining on the UNSC vote relating to Israel, it's lame duck leftists unaware that by making things more difficult for the victors, the backlash will have a worse outcome from their perspective.
      A number of Labour MPs are saying already that they will break ranks and demand amendments.

      The SNP will likely go all out to get the bill changed.

      The Lords will be obstructive.

      Some Tory MPs are starting to say that they want guarantees about the Single Market.

      It isn't nearly as much of a done deal as people think, especially since May's position is rather weak. (No doubt why she blusters so much about everything being beyond changing. :teehee:)
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      (Original post by l'etranger)
      Firstly, I dislike your general lefty nonsense, but I did vote to remain and I think a strong currency and being able to move around Europe easily would just have been preferable, I mean FFS will I need health insurance to go to France.

      You're acting as if the Lib Dems have a majority in the commons, we have a reactionary Conservative majority and weak opposition, a significant proportion of whom actually support leaving the EU anyway. Even if the opposition were united against Brexit, Theresa May would still be able to get a hard-ish Brexit through the Commons. This whole episode reminds me of Barack Obama abstaining on the UNSC vote relating to Israel, it's lame duck leftists unaware that by making things more difficult for the victors, the backlash will have a worse outcome from their perspective.
      Health insurance? Do you mean travel insurance? If you're travelling to France then you really should have travel insurance anyway to cover emergency healthcare. An EHIC card doesn't even cover the complete cost of most emergency treatments in France. It just means that they will treat you in the first place and you have to pay a patient contribution (which you can then claim back off your travel insurance).

      How do you think UK citizens travel to parts of the world outside the EU and get access to emergency healthcare?
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      (Original post by ManiaMuse)
      Health insurance? Do you mean travel insurance? If you're travelling to France then you really should have travel insurance anyway to cover emergency healthcare. An EHIC card doesn't even cover the complete cost of most emergency treatments in France. It just means that they will treat you in the first place and you have to pay a patient contribution (which you can then claim back off your travel insurance).

      How do you think UK citizens travel to parts of the world outside the EU and get access to emergency healthcare?
      I probably should have edited it to live tbh, but I have no idea why I would want to live there.
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      (Original post by l'etranger)
      I probably should have edited it to live tbh, but I have no idea why I would want to live there.
      If you are living and working in France as an expat you already have to sign up with one of the state healthcare insurance companies and pay a monthly premium + patient contribution when you receive treatment.
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      let's hope that the launch of Brexit goes better than that of Trident :teehee:
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        Bump to kill duplicate thread
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        (Original post by the bear)
        let's hope that the launch of Brexit goes better than that of Trident :teehee:
        I really expected something a little better from you, Trident was launched decades ago.
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        (Original post by the bear)
        let's hope that the launch of Brexit goes better than that of Trident :teehee:
        To look on the bright side, it is implausible that the Parliamentary outcome will nuke Miami.
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        (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
        To look on the bright side, it is implausible that the Parliamentary outcome will nuke Miami.
        but there will be considerable fallout...
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        The FTSE is up - evidently the City wants the Single Market and thinks this is the start of that road.

        I'm genuinely puzzled how Theresa May can lead the Conservative Party in complete opposition to what the bulk of Britain's corporate sector wants. In short, it won't last.

        Meanwhile, Labour's Kier Starmer is confirming that Labour will seek to amend, contrary to the nonsense spouted by Corbyn:

        "
        I think it would be against the spirit of the judgement if the government tried to introduce a one-clause bill. The judgement clearly envisages the normal procedures, and that would involve amendments and consideration in both houses. So I hope now we’ll have the proper and full debate and a proper role for parliament as envisaged.
        If it’s a simple piece of legislation we would then want to amend it to ensure parliament should have a proper role, and a meaningful role in the process. So if it is a short-form bill we do indicate that we will be putting down amendments.
        "
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        Globalism is just a way of putting minority groups down. In Europe, legal immigrants would be most affected by staying in the EU.
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        Fraser Nelson on point as ever http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01...ty-parliament/

        Looking forward to Iron Lady II pushing Clean Brexit through Parliament regardless
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        (Original post by QE2)
        Only 35% of "the people". And many of that number had absolutely no idea what they were voting for. I saw people saying they voted Leave to "stop Muslims", "save the NHS", "stop Brussels making our laws" and "we've had enough of experts".

        Should such people really be in control of the UKs foreign and economic policy?
        Why not have a referendum on whether we should have to pay tax? Let's see how that goes.
        I agree, but one cannot in the same breath praise democracy yet deny referendums on crucial decisions. How is the hoi polloi considered fit to vote for its leader if not considered fit to vote in referendums?

        Your criticism also applies equally to Remain voters - who were an even smaller percentage of the people.
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        (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
        I hated the referendum to start with (I don't believe such crucial things should be voted on in a country where the mass media tell oceans of lies and are manipulated from abroad by special interests) and I believe it should be with parliament.

        I think there will be more trouble in Parliament than people think over this and MPs will come under strong pressure to add stipulations that we must stay in the Single Market, etc.
        Yes, everyone in the country is duped and brainwashed by the media, incapable of thinking for themselves. Is that why the BBC and The Guardian churned out project fear nonsense?
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        What an absolute waste of taxpayers money for the government.
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        (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
        Fraser Nelson on point as ever http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01...ty-parliament/

        Looking forward to Iron Lady II pushing Clean Brexit through Parliament regardless
        I'm trying to think what the fake equivalent of iron is. :teehee:

        I'm glad Fraser Nelson agrees with my main point that it was profoundly against our constitutional democracy for the PM to claim she could simply steamroller this, but the question remains, just what kind of unprincipled government do we have? One that places ideology above constitution and commits huge falsehoods on critical matters, claiming she had that right when she didn't.

        There does seem to be a growing crisis of democracy in Britain. The Supreme Court has temporarily applied a patch, but the crisis remains, of an untrammeled hard right power group demanding their agenda at all costs.
       
       
       
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