Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Article 50 decision imminent! Parliament could vote. Watch

    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    The ones who are going to shafted. The ones who though there would be less immigration:-


    Theresa May and Donald Trump to hold talks on trade deal that cuts tariffs and allows workers to move between the US and UK
    Daily Telegraph
    Britain must relax immigration rules for Australians if it wants a free trade deal, says high commissioner to UK
    The Independent
    Theresa May urged to accept more skilled Indian workers to help trade deal
    The Guardian
    The environment secretary says she is "absolutely committed" to ensuring that British farmers have access to migrant workers after Brexit.
    BBC
    In other words the UK intends to exercise its sovereignty, and of course that is what the Brexiteers said it was about, sovereignty not numbers of immigrants, to let more folk in as long as they are not from the hated EU.
    Polls show huge public favourability of skilled migration from English-speaking countries. Not sure what point you're making.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    The ones who are going to shafted. The ones who though there would be less immigration:-


    Theresa May and Donald Trump to hold talks on trade deal that cuts tariffs and allows workers to move between the US and UK
    Daily Telegraph
    Britain must relax immigration rules for Australians if it wants a free trade deal, says high commissioner to UK
    The Independent
    Theresa May urged to accept more skilled Indian workers to help trade deal
    The Guardian
    The environment secretary says she is "absolutely committed" to ensuring that British farmers have access to migrant workers after Brexit.
    BBC
    In other words the UK intends to exercise its sovereignty, and of course that is what the Brexiteers said it was about, sovereignty not numbers of immigrants, to let more folk in as long as they are not from the hated EU.
    After Brexit we will be able, legally, to prevent people from immigrating here. Both EU and non EU citizens. Who comes here to live, we can decide as a society.

    As things stand we cannot do this for EU nationals. Do you accept this?
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    After Brexit we will be able, legally, to prevent people from immigrating here. Both EU and non EU citizens. Who comes here to live, we can decide as a society.

    As things stand we cannot do this for EU nationals. Do you accept this?
    I accept that position, but what I am asserting is that a large proportion of Brexit supporters (though not necessarily Brexiteers-Michael Gove was explicit that immigration could rise) voted to reduce immigration not merely place the decision to increase immigration in the hands of politicians in making trade deals.

    Furthermore this is a one time exercise of sovereignty in the same way as joining the EU. We exercised our sovereignty to join the EEC in 1973 and Parliament is likely to exercise that sovereignty in 2017 to give notice of withdrawal. In the same way we will exercise our sovereignty to sign a trade deal. Once signed that sovereignty will be suspended until we exercise it to withdraw from that trade deal. One cannot sign an agreement, maintain that agreement is in force and binding on the other party, but reserve the right to ignore the terms of the agreement oneself.
    • Thread Starter
    Online

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    Brexit was a bottom up revolution, of the poor and oppressed. The left behind, those whom the metropolitan elite thought they could tell what was best for them.
    Total fantasy. UKIP was founded by millionaires and funded by billionaires, notably offshored tax exile Sir James Goldsmith (who was notoriously strange and some say, insane) and currently the movement is funded by offshored oligarchs like Ashcroft and co-ordinated by the corrupt billionaire owners of the Mail and Murdoch news media. Even Farage, who poses as an ordinary bloke, is a former city trader with extensive property and who lives permanently abroad, married to a non-British wife.

    If you want to fantasise, why do it in public?
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I accept that position, but what I am asserting is that a large proportion of Brexit supporters (though not necessarily Brexiteers-Michael Gove was explicit that immigration could rise) voted to reduce immigration not merely place the decision to increase immigration in the hands of politicians in making trade deals.

    Furthermore this is a one time exercise of sovereignty in the same way as joining the EU. We exercised our sovereignty to join the EEC in 1973 and Parliament is likely to exercise that sovereignty in 2017 to give notice of withdrawal. In the same way we will exercise our sovereignty to sign a trade deal. Once signed that sovereignty will be suspended until we exercise it to withdraw from that trade deal. One cannot sign an agreement, maintain that agreement is in force and binding on the other party, but reserve the right to ignore the terms of the agreement oneself.
    Free movement from the EU led to mass immigration of unskilled and semi skilled labour, as we all know. We only need to walk down the nearest high street.

    I would hope (my hopes may not come to pass of course) that we shall continue to have highly skilled immigration from the rest of the world, (in fact more of it) but not unskilled immigration from the EU or anywhere.

    And I think that will be politically doable. Underclass Brexit voters don't tend to compete with Indian cardiologists, they have been undercut by Polish cleaners and Romanian labourers. The former will have private health and send their kids to Prep Schools, whereas the latter have been filling up local GP's surgeries and Primary School classrooms, and it pi$$ed these people off. So they voted Leave.

    That is where the inchoate anger came from, so effectively channeled by Leave. . Poor working class communities being culturally transformed in less than a decade, after the accession of the Eastern European countries.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    .

    That is where the inchoate anger came from, so effectively channeled by Leave. . Poor working class communities being culturally transformed in less than a decade, after the accession of the Eastern European countries.
    And that is where I am saying they will comprehensively stuffed
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    And that is where I am saying they will comprehensively stuffed
    We will see. Maybe. But they were stuffed anyway.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Even Farage, who poses as an ordinary bloke, is a former city trader with extensive property and who lives permanently abroad, married to a non-British wife.
    The marriage is in trouble apparently, but all the same, is this what the Remain side has come down to?

    That it is morally wrong to campaign for the UK leaving the EU whilst being married to a European woman??

    As for living abroad, he has been an MEP for many years, and we are still full members of the EU. We haven't even served Article 50 yet.

    Are you suggesting that he should have permanently lived in the UK whilst a member of a Parliament based abroad?

    Not just in one foreign country, by the way, but so batshit crazy is the EU that it holds sessions in TWO different nation states. :rolleyes:
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    We will see. Maybe. But they were stuffed anyway.
    They would not have been as poor as they are going to be.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    They would not have been as poor as they are going to be.
    Could be wrong of course, this sort of thing is not my strength area, but I believe that is called a counterfactual statement.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    The ones who are going to shafted. The ones who though there would be less immigration:-


    Theresa May and Donald Trump to hold talks on trade deal that cuts tariffs and allows workers to move between the US and UK
    Daily Telegraph
    Britain must relax immigration rules for Australians if it wants a free trade deal, says high commissioner to UK
    The Independent
    Theresa May urged to accept more skilled Indian workers to help trade deal
    The Guardian
    The environment secretary says she is "absolutely committed" to ensuring that British farmers have access to migrant workers after Brexit.
    BBC
    In other words the UK intends to exercise its sovereignty, and of course that is what the Brexiteers said it was about, sovereignty not numbers of immigrants, to let more folk in as long as they are not from the hated EU.
    Why would any 'Brexiteer' care about immigration from Australia? They are a Commonwealth country with a culture that is pretty much a carbon copy of England inhabited by British descendants for the most part.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by demaistre)
    Why would any 'Brexiteer' care about immigration from Australia? They are a Commonwealth country with a culture that is pretty much a carbon copy of England inhabited by British descendants for the most part.
    They don't know how to brew proper beer.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    I love how some of the remainers on here are happy about ten his. The fact is, it will make no difference whether the voting takes place or not. The facts are:
    1) We are going to leave the EU.
    2) We are leaving the single market.
    No one is going to be able to stop this, so don't get all hopeful!
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    Could be wrong of course, this sort of thing is not my strength area, but I believe that is called a counterfactual statement.
    I don't think you are right. Can anyone help?

    What do you call a logical statement that can neither be proved true nor false?
    • Aston Villa FC Supporter
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    The pantomime continues.

    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    The ones who are going to shafted. The ones who though there would be less immigration:-


    Theresa May and Donald Trump to hold talks on trade deal that cuts tariffs and allows workers to move between the US and UK
    Daily Telegraph
    Britain must relax immigration rules for Australians if it wants a free trade deal, says high commissioner to UK
    The Independent
    Theresa May urged to accept more skilled Indian workers to help trade deal
    The Guardian
    The environment secretary says she is "absolutely committed" to ensuring that British farmers have access to migrant workers after Brexit.
    BBC
    In other words the UK intends to exercise its sovereignty, and of course that is what the Brexiteers said it was about, sovereignty not numbers of immigrants, to let more folk in as long as they are not from the hated EU.
    The problem isn't the number, it's the type. In the EU the flood complained about is the low skilled workers who come to Britain due to the major draw factor of, for them, very good wages for even the most basic of jobs.

    This isn't the case with most of what was highlighted, the first two we're looking at countries with high wages and mostly skilled work, the third is restricted to the skilled labour, the only one that suggests at maintenance of the source of discontent is the last one.

    You've then got the other side of common heritage when were looking at many of the former colonies, something that is not the case with much of Europe.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Theresa May is a fuken idiot if she thought she could bypass a parliamentary vote. Who does she think she is.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Moura)
    Theresa May is a fuken idiot if she thought she could bypass a parliamentary vote. Who does she think she is.
    ...Someone who possess full executive powers of the Monarch?

    It was never likely that she could've done everything, since The Queen in Parliament is much more powerful than The Queen in Council, but triggering Article 50 itself is closer to the President Trump withdrawing from TPP on an executive order than amending a British law.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Get ready for Visa application forms from every EU country as well, not to mention arbitrary blocks because for example there simply aren't enough customs people in the country to cover the ports, so they will periodically have to shut the Channel Tunnel, Gatwick, etc.
    This is a totally made-up issue.

    EU countries currently range from No 51 (Belgium et al, 91 countries visa-free) to No 55 (Poland, 86 countries visa-free) on the welcoming index.

    The British citizen passport is currently No 3 with 156 visa-free entries.

    Countries that are much less welcoming than any EU country such as the USA, Canada, or Australia offer visa-free entry to British citizens. Do you seriously think the EU will ask Britons for a visa?
    • Thread Starter
    Online

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fallen Star)
    The pantomime continues.
    I firmly believe that breakfast could be a success, despite the enemies of breakfast bringing this case. Clearly they have an interest in undermining our sensible British bacon and eggs. (Bacon from Denmark, eggs from Germany via Aldi.)

    It is in all our interests now to work together towards a stunningly brilliant breakfast and let not the naysayers say that breakfast will be a failure!
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What newspaper do you read/prefer?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.