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The state has exceeded its authority Watch

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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    OP despite their objections to my assessment of their position is a selfish , immature narcissist, Rand and 'Objectivism' appeals to that sort of individual along with libertarianism and being a 'Kipper
    I can't help that I'm writing to you from a hotel suite, and have a high standard of living. That's called hard work not privilege.

    Why would a purely selfish person discuss society and the state? A selfish person simply accepts the present and does what's in their own interest.

    A person needs to be selfish to a large extent but not purely selfish. Selfishness is to concentrate on ones virtues. Virtues bring about ones values which is to bring about life.

    This definition of the self that one should be about selflessness and service to others is nonsense.

    This type of nonsense is often spouted by certain Millennials as a kind of all talk no action doubletalk, and by the very people who are the most narcissistic, unable to deal with criticism, who don't understand hard work and have a sense of entitlement.

    These same people who are often found in these post election pro Hillary crybaby demonstrations - spouting nonsense because they are unable to deal with reality.


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    (Original post by Objectivism2017)
    I can't help that I'm writing to you from a hotel suite, and have a high standard of living. That's called hard work not privilege.

    Why would a purely selfish person discuss society and the state? A selfish person simply accepts the present and does what's in their own interest.

    A person needs to be selfish to a large extent but not purely selfish. Selfishness is to concentrate on ones virtues. Virtues bring about ones values which is to bring about life.

    This definition of the self that one should be about selflessness and service to others is nonsense.

    This type of nonsense is often spouted by certain Millennials as a kind of all talk no action doubletalk, and by the very people who are the most narcissistic, unable to deal with criticism, who don't understand hard work and have a sense of entitlement.

    These same people who are often found in these post election pro Hillary crybaby demonstrations - spouting nonsense because they are unable to deal with reality.


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    Once again , the OP demonstrates their narcissism and sociopathy.
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    Rand is no more a philosopher than L Ron Hubbard is a Prophet

    Ration wiki sums up Objectvism quite well http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Objectivism

    funnily enough you will strugle to find Philsophers of other schools of philosophical thought who given Rand the time of day becasue of the many glaring holes in the model http://www.noblesoul.com/orc/critics/

    http://michaelprescott.freeservers.c...-ayn-rand.html
    Well those links are quite biased!

    Again we live in a time of the crybaby warrior, Madonna / Lady Gaga and all their cohorts protesting things, those people would take a single look at policies that were sensible and sustainable and cry that they were "racist" or "fascist man". I would say that those people are not living in reality. They don't see life from a position of responsibility, they see it from a position of whining to get things. They are hence of bad character and not of the same ilk as people who create things.


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    (Original post by Objectivism2017)
    Well those links are quite biased!

    Again we live in a time of the crybaby warrior, Madonna / Lady Gaga and all their cohorts protesting things, those people would take a single look at policies that were sensible and sustainable and cry that they were "racist" or "fascist man". I would say that those people are not living in reality. They don't see life from a position of responsibility, they see it from a position of whining to get things. They are hence of bad character and not of the same ilk as people who create things.


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    funnily enough though , no other school of philosophical thought gives a fig for Objectivism, Rand is a second rate novellist with delusions , just like Hubbard ... Heinlein at least made no claims himself to the value or otherwise of his fictions
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    Something that has pondered on my mind lately has been Brexit related. The state is ensuring that it utilises every possible delay tactic that it can in relation to Brexit. Our democracy is at a critical point at which there is a severe difference in opinion between the population and those in power. Is a democracy really a democracy when the state can have road blocks put in place by the justice system?

    Don't get me wrong, I accept that this will undoubtedly be a lengthy process but, I think many are beginning to question whether or not it will happen at all.

    Secondly I don't believe we have enough variety in parliament nor a legitimately common interest as a nation towards a set of morals best reflected by a single party. As far as parties go, the names are different but the politics is essentially the same. With the Conservatives taking only a slightly further right stance than Labour and the Liberal Democrats being a constant embarrassment to themselves. Unfortunately we seem to live in a state where it is increasingly apparent that the majority of Labour MP's better fit the profile of a stereotypical Conservative. This is disheartening really when you see someone like Jeremy Corbyn attempting to bring a fresh further left approach to parliament however, failing because the party doesn't back the views strongly enough. UK politics in general has been disheartening for as long as I can remember. To raise points about the SNP often drums up plenty of ridicule as far as Scottish Independence goes however, there is no question at all that in Scotland we at least feel that OUR views are being represented in London and that we stand together in those views as demonstrated by the vast majority of Scottish seats (56/59) in the 2015 UK General Election.
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    funnily enough though , no other school of philosophical thought gives a fig for Objectivism, Rand is a second rate novellist with delusions , just like Hubbard ... Heinlein at least made no claims himself to the value or otherwise of his fictions
    Not all her books are novels. The Virtue of Selfishness for example is philosophy not a novel, see quotes below.



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    (Original post by Objectivism2017)
    Not all her books are novels. The Virtue of Selfishness for example is philosophy not a novel, see quotes below.
    you appear to be confusing the author's description ofthe work with the definition of the work accepted by the majority of others in the field.
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    you appear to be confusing the author's description ofthe work with the definition of the work accepted by the majority of others in the field.
    Those are quotes directly from the book.

    What field! There is no field! That's where academics get things all wrong.

    You're looking for reinforcement and confirmation bias to support truth.

    Consensus of opinion, other people's values don't define truth.

    Philosophy is not a field, it's just an open space for argument.


    I would say to academics, engage your own brain and stop merely looking for people to support a position.


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    (Original post by Objectivism2017)
    I can't help that I'm writing to you from a hotel suite, and have a high standard of living. That's called hard work not privilege.
    So everyone who is wealthy must, ipso facto, have worked hard for it?
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    (Original post by Objectivism2017)
    Those are quotes directly from the book.

    What field! There is no field! That's where academics get things all wrong.

    You're looking for reinforcement and confirmation bias to support truth.

    Consensus of opinion, other people's values don't define truth.

    Philosophy is not a field, it's just an open space for argument.


    I would say to academics, engage your own brain and stop merely looking for people to support a position.


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    as if we required further evidence of your immaturity and psychiatric pathology ...
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    So everyone who is wealthy must, ipso facto, have worked hard for it?
    no they are just intrinscially better

    https://xkcd.com/1277/
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    (Original post by Objectivism2017)
    This ideology justifies the state being involved with your morals, your values, what you are allowed to say, consume, trade, coin our money, manipulate financial markets e.g. Set interest rates "for the common good"
    Just to pick up on this particular point, what do you think happened when the state didn't "coin our money"? Even the US constitution, which you cite admiringly as a prescription of an ideal state authority, explicitly gives the government the power to coin money.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    So everyone who is wealthy must, ipso facto, have worked hard for it?
    Money is not the be all or end all and nor is it an absolute measure of people's character.

    Yes there maybe be some correlation but a wealthy bank robber does not have better character than an honest bank clerk.



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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Just to pick up on this particular point, what do you think happened when the state didn't "coin our money"? Even the US constitution, which you cite admiringly as a prescription of an ideal state authority, explicitly gives the government the power to coin money.
    It's just the OP demonstrating their immaturity and /or pathology again .
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Just to pick up on this particular point, what do you think happened when the state didn't "coin our money"? Even the US constitution, which you cite admiringly as a prescription of an ideal state authority, explicitly gives the government the power to coin money.
    People used money just fine before the state coined it. Private banks and goldsmiths issued it.

    If I am setting up a transaction with you, there is no requirement for the state to be involved. The goods can be traded directly, or an interim, escrow or third party can be involved for supervision or to provide a medium of exchange.


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    Why so greedy, my AnCap friend?
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    (Original post by Objectivism2017)
    Money is not the be all or end all and nor is it an absolute measure of people's character.

    Yes there maybe be some correlation but a wealthy bank robber does not have better character than an honest bank clerk.



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    Doesn't answer my question. I asked about hardworking-ness, not the more vague "people's character".

    You implicitly asserted that having wealth and a high standard of living was down to hard work, not privilege. Unless you are asserting that everyone who is wealthymust necessarily have worked hard for it, then this is unjustified.
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    (Original post by Objectivism2017)
    People used money just fine before the state coined it. Private banks and goldsmiths issued it.

    If I am setting up a transaction with you, there is no requirement for the state to be involved. The goods can be traded directly, or an interim, escrow or third party can be involved for supervision or to provide a medium of exchange.
    How do you think money, in the sense of a medium of exchange, particularly metallic money, came about? Think carefully before answering.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Doesn't answer my question. I asked about hardworking-ness, not the more vague "people's character".

    You implicitly asserted that having wealth and a high standard of living was down to hard work, not privilege. Unless you are asserting that everyone who is wealthymust necessarily have worked hard for it, then this is unjustified.
    In the vast majority of cases yes people who have wealth worked hard for it. You will probably find that there are some years where those people did nothing but work.

    Yes of course there are a few exception like Lord and Lady Tibbles who inherited a ton.


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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    How do you think money, in the sense of a medium of exchange, particularly metallic money, came about? Think carefully before answering.
    Money came about originally in various forms which included shells and plant seeds in the past. Thousands of years ago temples controlled money because they lent people seeds to plant.

    In modern history goldsmiths issued money as depositary receipts for gold held. Private banks like Bank of Scotland and RBS issued fiat currency before there was any state Central Bank.

    You don't need the state as an intermediary. If A and B trust C, C can be the intermediary.


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