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Adam Atkinson
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Do OU courses that say you need "a computer" mean a computer with Windows on it?

My main machine is an Amiga, though I have a second computer with Linux and FreeBSD. I would imagine
that at least Macintosh and Linux users are foreseen to some extent. I have been, am, and plan to
remain, MS-free at home.

--
Adam Atkinson ([email protected]) You've got to get a hat if you want to get ahead.
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Mark Hill
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On 9 Apr 2002 20:50:54 +0100, Adam Atkinson <[email protected]> wrote:
[q1]> Do OU courses that say you need "a computer" mean a computer with Windows on it?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

Yes. They mention needing Windows 98 or ME in their Personal Computing leaflet. There's some support
for the Mac thru mac versions of the software. The computing leaflet mentions that Linux users could
use 'emulation software' (like WINE, I suppose), but no technical support could be given.

Basically, I think it boils down to what course(s) you're doing, and whether you can get the course
software working with your prefered OS.

This year, I'm doing T171 and T223. T171 requires the use of the First Class (on-line conferencing)
software. There's no Linux/*nix version available, so perhaps you could run First Class through WINE
or VMware? I use Linux as my 'main' OS but have settled to using Windows 98 for OU work. Having said
that I've used First Class within VMware and it works flawlessly. I've never played with WINE so I
don't know if First Class will work. T171 also needs you to have access to the web and a html
editor. However, I'm sure you can do that with your Amiga. :-) T223 requires DOS for its compiler &
software to run, which may work within dosemu (I think it's available through FBSD ports). Mmm, I
wonder if I could get the T223 team to switch to GCC?

Anyway, hope this helps.

--
Mark Hill -- T171 & T223
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Thom Baguley
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Mark Hill wrote:
[q1]> Yes. They mention needing Windows 98 or ME in their Personal Computing leaflet. There's some[/q1]
[q1]> support for the Mac thru mac versions of the software. The computing leaflet mentions that[/q1]
[q1]> Linux users could use 'emulation software' (like WINE, I suppose), but no technical support[/q1]
[q1]> could be given.[/q1]

Windows is the default but you'd need to check the specific course requirements - as for some
courses alternative software or platforms might be fine. I've used a Mac Windows emulator in the
past for an OU course. It is not unknown for Mac emulation to be preferable
(i.e., more stable) than the wrong Windows configuration.

Thom
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Al Howat
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On Wed, 10 Apr 2002 00:29:47 +0100, Mark Hill wrote:

[q1]> This year, I'm doing T171 and T223. T171 requires the use of the First Class (on-line[/q1]
[q1]> conferencing) software. There's no Linux/*nix version available, so perhaps you could run First[/q1]
[q1]> Class through WINE or VMware? I use Linux as my 'main' OS but have settled to using Windows 98 for[/q1]
[q1]> OU work. Having said that I've used First Class within VMware and it works flawlessly. I've never[/q1]
[q1]> played with WINE so I don't know if First Class will work. T171 also needs you to have access to[/q1]
[q1]> the web and a html editor. However, I'm sure you can do that with your Amiga. :-) T223 requires[/q1]
[q1]> DOS for its compiler & software to run, which may work within dosemu (I think it's available[/q1]
[q1]> through FBSD ports). Mmm, I wonder if I could get the T223 team to switch to GCC? [/q1]

As far as T171 is concerned I don't think you need Windows installed. The web site for the course
is fine under Mozilla and I used the web interface to First Class a lot - and it's improved more
this year.

I did use Word (my laptop dual boots) for writing my assignments, but they recommend submitting them
as RTF files, and I'm pretty sure that Abiword (http://www.abisource.org/) would do that for you.

For what it's worth MT262 will be pretty hard for you - it involves C++ programming with Borland
Turbo C++. Borland are talking about Linux versions of all of their software, but you'll have to pay
rather than use the freebie version the OU ship.

Hope this helps!

Al
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Adam Atkinson
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On 10-Apr-02 00:29:47, Mark Hill said:

[q1]>This year, I'm doing T171 and T223. T171 requires the use of the First Class (on-line conferencing)[/q1]
[q1]>software. There's no Linux/*nix version available, so perhaps you could run First Class through[/q1]
[q1]>WINE or VMware?[/q1]

Other people have mentioned a web interface to it.

[q1]>T171 also needs you to have access to the web and a html editor. However, I'm sure you can do that[/q1]
[q1]>with your Amiga. :-)[/q1]

Indeed I can. Web browsers: check. text editors: check. Even an html-aware text editor. I don't like
GUIfied html editors.

[q1]>T223 requires DOS for its compiler & software to run, which may work within dosemu (I think it's[/q1]
[q1]>available through FBSD ports). Mmm, I wonder if I could get the T223 team to switch to GCC? [/q1]

I would have thought gcc would be the natural choice anyway.

--
Adam Atkinson ([email protected]) #include <disclaimer.h
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Prashant Meswan
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Hate to throw a spanner in the works...but I do have a first class client that works under
Linux. ;-).

I can post it to the newsgroup, but it is quite big in size. "Mark Hill" <[email protected]>
wrote in message news:[email protected]...
[q1]> On 9 Apr 2002 20:50:54 +0100, Adam Atkinson <[email protected]> wrote:[/q1]
[q2]> > Do OU courses that say you need "a computer" mean a computer with Windows on it?[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Yes. They mention needing Windows 98 or ME in their Personal Computing leaflet. There's some[/q1]
[q1]> support for the Mac thru mac versions of the software. The computing leaflet mentions that[/q1]
[q1]> Linux users could use 'emulation software' (like WINE, I suppose), but no technical support[/q1]
[q1]> could be given.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Basically, I think it boils down to what course(s) you're doing, and whether you can get the[/q1]
[q1]> course software working with your prefered OS.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> This year, I'm doing T171 and T223. T171 requires the use of the First Class (on-line[/q1]
[q1]> conferencing) software. There's no Linux/*nix version available, so perhaps you could run First[/q1]
[q1]> Class through WINE or VMware? I use Linux as my 'main' OS but have settled to using Windows 98 for[/q1]
[q1]> OU work. Having said that I've used First Class within VMware and it works flawlessly. I've never[/q1]
[q1]> played with WINE so I don't know if First Class will work. T171 also needs you to have access to[/q1]
[q1]> the web and a html editor. However, I'm sure you can do that with your Amiga. :-) T223 requires[/q1]
[q1]> DOS for its compiler & software to run, which may work within dosemu (I think it's available[/q1]
[q1]> through FBSD ports). Mmm, I wonder if I could get the T223 team to switch to GCC? [/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Anyway, hope this helps. [/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> --[/q1]
[q1]> Mark Hill -- T171 & T223[/q1]
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Mark Hill
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On Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:57:30 +0100, Prashant Meswani <[email protected]> wrote:
[q1]> Hate to throw a spanner in the works...but I do have a first class client that works under[/q1]
[q1]> Linux. ;-).[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> I can post it to the newsgroup, but it is quite big in size.[/q1]
...

Really? I wasn't aware one existed. A post to my email address would be appreciated.

--
Mark Hill -- T171 & T223
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Mart64
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Seems a bit daft to avoid the most popular business tool in use throughout the western workd today!
i use Sparc Unix at work a bit and we have some silicon graphics machines too. To be honest I prefer
to program using Unix and two textedit windows... but I much prefer Excel and even Visio to the Unix
offerings. Linux is OK but it isn;t really going anywhere IMO but is a useful teaching ais to those
who want Unix at home.. I 'spose the Mac is an example of that now too. Fortunately I can stop
worrying about VMS as we haven't got those anymore.

You can be a rebel if ya want but I think it is just being silly - like the Netscape people..it
was rubbish!

Martin.

"Adam Atkinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[q1]: Do OU courses that say you need "a computer" mean a computer with Windows on it?[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: My main machine is an Amiga, though I have a second computer with Linux and FreeBSD. I would[/q1]
[q1]: imagine that at least Macintosh and Linux users are foreseen to some extent. I have been, am,[/q1]
[q1]: and plan to[/q1]
remain,
[q1]: MS-free at home.[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: --[/q1]
[q1]: Adam Atkinson ([email protected]) You've got to get a hat if you want to get ahead.[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
0
Prashant Meswan
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#9
Are you employed by MS by any chance? ;-).

Even though MS has the dominance in the OS and Office Apps Market. Linux offers the one thing MS
can't. Portability. Fair enough you have to compile the code on each platform (or use different
library), but Linux does has some more flexibility. I am guilty in the fact that I am using Windows,
but that is because the courses I am doing requires Windows. Yes I could use Wine, VMMWare and every
other emulator under the sun, but my system is slow enough as it is. Given the chance, I would
convert completely to Linux.

"Mart64" <[email protected]_spam_co.u k> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[q1]> Seems a bit daft to avoid the most popular business tool in use throughout the western workd[/q1]
[q1]> today! i use Sparc Unix at work a bit and we have some silicon graphics machines too. To be honest[/q1]
[q1]> I prefer to program using Unix and two textedit windows... but I much prefer Excel and even Visio[/q1]
[q1]> to the Unix offerings. Linux is OK but it isn;t really going anywhere IMO but is a useful teaching[/q1]
[q1]> ais to those who want Unix at home.. I 'spose the Mac is an example of that now too. Fortunately I[/q1]
[q1]> can stop worrying about VMS as we haven't got those anymore.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> You can be a rebel if ya want but I think it is just being silly - like the Netscape people..it[/q1]
[q1]> was rubbish![/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Martin.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> "Adam Atkinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message[/q1]
[q1]> news:[email protected]...[/q1]
[q1]> : Do OU courses that say you need "a computer" mean a computer with Windows on it?[/q1]
[q1]> :[/q1]
[q1]> : My main machine is an Amiga, though I have a second computer with Linux and FreeBSD. I would[/q1]
[q1]> : imagine that at least Macintosh and Linux users are foreseen to some extent. I have been, am,[/q1]
[q1]> : and plan to[/q1]
[q1]> remain,[/q1]
[q1]> : MS-free at home.[/q1]
[q1]> :[/q1]
[q1]> : --[/q1]
[q1]> : Adam Atkinson ([email protected]) You've got to get a hat if you want to get ahead.[/q1]
[q1]> :[/q1]
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Mart64
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#10
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#10
Absolute rubbish!

You can make the reasoned argument that Linux (andmost Unix variants) are much more open systems
than MS Windows. That is definately true.

With the almost 100% market share Windows is the most portable system of them all. Linux is by no
means more flexible!

You are living in a pipedream! While I do not dengrate Linux, as it provides a useful version of
Unix for the PC at very low cost, andit also provides many quite useful tools... it is not intended
to compete with the Microsoft applications nor is it able to. To rebel against Microsoft is fine,
they ae a victim of their own success and everyone can find a fault with their software, it is
memory hungry and comparitively slow and pondorous for the powerful machines that run
it.. but does Linux offer a useful alternative. Nowhere near. Linux is great for people who want a
cheap server, but despite a ridiculous amount of development it is nowhere!

Get real, go with Linux exclusively and enter the computting wasteland....

Martin.

"Prashant Meswani" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[q1]: Are you employed by MS by any chance? ;-).[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: Even though MS has the dominance in the OS and Office Apps[/q1]
Market. Linux
[q1]: offers the one thing MS can't. Portability. Fair enough you have to[/q1]
compile
[q1]: the code on each platform (or use different library), but Linux[/q1]
does has
[q1]: some more flexibility. I am guilty in the fact that I am using[/q1]
Windows, but
[q1]: that is because the courses I am doing requires Windows. Yes I could[/q1]
use
[q1]: Wine, VMMWare and every other emulator under the sun, but my system[/q1]
is slow
[q1]: enough as it is. Given the chance, I would convert completely to[/q1]
Linux.
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: "Mart64" <[email protected]_spam_co.u k> wrote in message[/q1]
[q1]: news:[email protected]...[/q1]
[q1]: > Seems a bit daft to avoid the most popular business tool in use throughout the western workd[/q1]
[q1]: > today! i use Sparc Unix at work a[/q1]
bit
[q1]: > and we have some silicon graphics machines too. To be honest I[/q1]
prefer
[q1]: > to program using Unix and two textedit windows... but I much[/q1]
prefer
[q1]: > Excel and even Visio to the Unix offerings. Linux is OK but it[/q1]
isn;t
[q1]: > really going anywhere IMO but is a useful teaching ais to those[/q1]
who
[q1]: > want Unix at home.. I 'spose the Mac is an example of that now[/q1]
too.
[q1]: > Fortunately I can stop worrying about VMS as we haven't got those anymore.[/q1]
[q1]: >[/q1]
[q1]: > You can be a rebel if ya want but I think it is just being silly - like the Netscape people..it[/q1]
[q1]: > was rubbish![/q1]
[q1]: >[/q1]
[q1]: > Martin.[/q1]
[q1]: >[/q1]
[q1]: >[/q1]
[q1]: >[/q1]
[q1]: >[/q1]
[q1]: > "Adam Atkinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message[/q1]
[q1]: > news:[email protected]...[/q1]
[q1]: > : Do OU courses that say you need "a computer" mean a computer[/q1]
with
[q1]: > : Windows on it?[/q1]
[q1]: > :[/q1]
[q1]: > : My main machine is an Amiga, though I have a second computer[/q1]
with
[q1]: > : Linux and FreeBSD. I would imagine that at least Macintosh and[/q1]
Linux
[q1]: > : users are foreseen to some extent. I have been, am, and plan to[/q1]
[q1]: > remain,[/q1]
[q1]: > : MS-free at home.[/q1]
[q1]: > :[/q1]
[q1]: > : --[/q1]
[q1]: > : Adam Atkinson ([email protected]) You've got to get a hat if you want to get ahead.[/q1]
[q1]: > :[/q1]
[q1]: >[/q1]
[q1]: >[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
0
Bob Nerkul
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#11
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#11
On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 00:54:33 +0100, "Mart64" <[email protected]_spam_co.u k> wrote:

[q1]>With the almost 100% market share Windows is the most portable system of them all. Linux is by no[/q1]
[q1]>means more flexible![/q1]

If I may, I think 'portable' was meant in the sense of moving it to other hardware, not moving
yourself to other offices.

Carry on...

nerkul
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Prashant Meswan
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"Mart64" <[email protected]_spam_co.u k> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[q1]> Absolute rubbish![/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> You can make the reasoned argument that Linux (andmost Unix variants) are much more open systems[/q1]
[q1]> than MS Windows. That is definately true.[/q1]
And your point is? ;-)

[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> With the almost 100% market share Windows is the most portable system of them all. Linux is by no[/q1]
[q1]> means more flexible![/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
That is not exactly true. http://zdnet.com.com/2100-11-503810.html?legacy=zdnn

[q1]> You are living in a pipedream! While I do not dengrate Linux, as it provides a useful version of[/q1]
[q1]> Unix for the PC at very low cost, andit also provides many quite useful tools... it is not[/q1]
[q1]> intended to compete with the Microsoft applications nor is it able to. To rebel against Microsoft[/q1]
[q1]> is fine, they ae a victim of their own success and everyone can find a fault with their software,[/q1]
[q1]> it is memory hungry and comparitively slow and pondorous for the powerful machines that run[/q1]
[q1]> it.. but does Linux offer a useful alternative. Nowhere near. Linux is great for people who want a[/q1]
[q1]> cheap server, but despite a ridiculous amount of development it is nowhere![/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
Maybe I am living in a pipedream....I am using MS Windows after all.;-) Linux can be seen as either
as a Workstation and a server without having to purchase extra licenses....IBM have commited to
providing support for Linux by porting its DB to it, Borland have committed to Linux by providing a
development tools (Kylix I believe) for it. These are just to name 2. Linux may not be a threat just
yet, but give it a few more years of development and it will truely kick ass. Linux was the first to
provide support for IA64 (If I recall) as well as USB2.0....Where is MS with these? You have proven
my point why people should use Linux....MS is memory hungry...and that is just the OS. Linux has at
least 3 MS Office compatible applications (StarOffice is being one). Even though I admit that not
everyone will be able to use Linux straight away, but I don't know anyone who took duck to water
with MS Office or MS Windows straight away. ;-). You also proven my point....at least Linux is being
developed...haven't seen much development with Windows (no need to say why improve on
perfection...MS is no way near being perfect).

[q1]> Get real, go with Linux exclusively and enter the computting wasteland....[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
I am real. I have no intention of going with Linux exclusively..yet..I am being dictated by the
subjects I study. Don't take what I said in haste....I am trying to provide a balanced opinion. ;-)
[q1]> Martin.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> "Prashant Meswani" <[email protected]> wrote in message[/q1]
[q1]> news:[email protected]...[/q1]
[q1]> : Are you employed by MS by any chance? ;-).[/q1]
[q1]> :[/q1]
[q1]> : Even though MS has the dominance in the OS and Office Apps[/q1]
[q1]> Market. Linux[/q1]
[q1]> : offers the one thing MS can't. Portability. Fair enough you have to[/q1]
[q1]> compile[/q1]
[q1]> : the code on each platform (or use different library), but Linux[/q1]
[q1]> does has[/q1]
[q1]> : some more flexibility. I am guilty in the fact that I am using[/q1]
[q1]> Windows, but[/q1]
[q1]> : that is because the courses I am doing requires Windows. Yes I could[/q1]
[q1]> use[/q1]
[q1]> : Wine, VMMWare and every other emulator under the sun, but my system[/q1]
[q1]> is slow[/q1]
[q1]> : enough as it is. Given the chance, I would convert completely to[/q1]
[q1]> Linux.[/q1]
[q1]> :[/q1]
[q1]> : "Mart64" <[email protected]_spam_co.u k> wrote in message[/q1]
[q1]> : news:[email protected]...[/q1]
[q1]> : > Seems a bit daft to avoid the most popular business tool in use throughout the western workd[/q1]
[q1]> : > today! i use Sparc Unix at work a[/q1]
[q1]> bit[/q1]
[q1]> : > and we have some silicon graphics machines too. To be honest I[/q1]
[q1]> prefer[/q1]
[q1]> : > to program using Unix and two textedit windows... but I much[/q1]
[q1]> prefer[/q1]
[q1]> : > Excel and even Visio to the Unix offerings. Linux is OK but it[/q1]
[q1]> isn;t[/q1]
[q1]> : > really going anywhere IMO but is a useful teaching ais to those[/q1]
[q1]> who[/q1]
[q1]> : > want Unix at home.. I 'spose the Mac is an example of that now[/q1]
[q1]> too.[/q1]
[q1]> : > Fortunately I can stop worrying about VMS as we haven't got those anymore.[/q1]
[q1]> : >[/q1]
[q1]> : > You can be a rebel if ya want but I think it is just being silly - like the Netscape[/q1]
[q1]> : > people..it was rubbish![/q1]
[q1]> : >[/q1]
[q1]> : > Martin.[/q1]
[q1]> : >[/q1]
[q1]> : >[/q1]
[q1]> : >[/q1]
[q1]> : >[/q1]
[q1]> : > "Adam Atkinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message[/q1]
[q1]> : > news:[email protected]...[/q1]
[q1]> : > : Do OU courses that say you need "a computer" mean a computer[/q1]
[q1]> with[/q1]
[q1]> : > : Windows on it?[/q1]
[q1]> : > :[/q1]
[q1]> : > : My main machine is an Amiga, though I have a second computer[/q1]
[q1]> with[/q1]
[q1]> : > : Linux and FreeBSD. I would imagine that at least Macintosh and[/q1]
[q1]> Linux[/q1]
[q1]> : > : users are foreseen to some extent. I have been, am, and plan to[/q1]
[q1]> : > remain,[/q1]
[q1]> : > : MS-free at home.[/q1]
[q1]> : > :[/q1]
[q1]> : > : --[/q1]
[q1]> : > : Adam Atkinson ([email protected]) You've got to get a hat if you want to get ahead.[/q1]
[q1]> : > :[/q1]
[q1]> : >[/q1]
[q1]> : >[/q1]
[q1]> :[/q1]
[q1]> :[/q1]
0
Adam Atkinson
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#13
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#13
On 18-Apr-02 00:54:33, Mart64 said:

[q1]>You are living in a pipedream! While I do not dengrate Linux, as it provides a useful version of[/q1]
[q1]>Unix for the PC at very low cost, andit also provides many quite useful tools... it is not intended[/q1]
[q1]>to compete with the Microsoft applications nor is it able to.[/q1]

I'm not "rebelling". I've been MS-free at home for about 20 years and would prefer to stay that way.

Also, whatever the OU offers for most courses, I would have thought (some) CS courses would support
or even require the use of something unix-like.

--
Adam Atkinson ([email protected]) Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
0
Mark A. Hill
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#14
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#14
On 18 Apr 2002 18:26:45 +0100, Adam Atkinson <[email protected]> wrote: ...
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Also, whatever the OU offers for most courses, I would have thought (some) CS courses would[/q1]
[q1]> support or even require the use of something unix-like.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like any course requires unix-like environment. Hopefully someone can
prove me wrong. It's a shame, but I suppose it would be difficult to explain to distance-learning
students how to install another OS. (Having said that are several versions of Unix that run on top
of windows).

As a side note, it's not like the OU have never heard of Unix. They have a linux gazzette mirror at
linux.open.ac.uk and some sort of email support for students who wish to install linux. (But I don't
how far that support goes.

Bye from

--
Mark Hill -- T171 & T223
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Mart64
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#15
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#15
So did I...

My points still stand.

Martin.

"bob nerkul" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
[q1]: On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 00:54:33 +0100, "Mart64" <[email protected]_spam_co.u k> wrote:[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: >With the almost 100% market share Windows is the most portable[/q1]
system
[q1]: >of them all. Linux is by no means more flexible![/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: If I may, I think 'portable' was meant in the sense of moving it to other hardware, not moving[/q1]
[q1]: yourself to other offices.[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: Carry on...[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: nerkul[/q1]
0
Mart64
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#16
We have many undergards here who would like to use Linux exclusively... but they can't. The system
standard for computing has already been established... For serious networking the choices usually
work around a variant of Unix (for Sun, Silicon Graphics, now Apple) or Microsoft Windows. We use
a Linux box for a dept server, very handy, Pentium 90 with a little bit of Ram 512mb?? and it
works well.

The point is you cannot shy away from the industry standard. We have stopped using Unix for student
accounts.. it has the same security issues as Microsoft and it is harder to maintain, and doesn't
mix with any decent office applications.

Linux has been in development for many years, by thousands of enthusiasts. By virtue of its Unix /
Posix origin it is very easy for companies to port versions of their software to it. Ultimately I
suspect that Linux ( I use SUSE) is going to stay a cheap solution to those who don't need or cannot
afford true professional software. That is fine.

There is a future for Unix (perhaps) as demonstrated by the multi layer OS X as used by the Mac. We
shall see. But I still think you are living in a pipedream.. We all should have Macs... seeing as
how they stole the GUI from Xerox PARC first, but Bill Gates marketed his highly flawed version
first. If you look at computer history the best doesn't make it, the best marketed does.

Martin.

--
________________________________ _
M. Boulger, ([email protected]) Researcher, DISC, Brunel University, UK.

"Prashant Meswani" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: "Mart64" <[email protected]_spam_co.u k> wrote in message[/q1]
[q1]: news:[email protected]...[/q1]
[q1]: > Absolute rubbish![/q1]
[q1]: >[/q1]
[q1]: > You can make the reasoned argument that Linux (andmost Unix[/q1]
variants)
[q1]: > are much more open systems than MS Windows. That is definately[/q1]
true.
[q1]: And your point is? ;-)[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: >[/q1]
[q1]: > With the almost 100% market share Windows is the most portable[/q1]
system
[q1]: > of them all. Linux is by no means more flexible![/q1]
[q1]: >[/q1]
[q1]: That is not exactly true. http://zdnet.com.com/2100-11-503810.html?legacy=zdnn[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: > You are living in a pipedream! While I do not dengrate Linux, as[/q1]
it
[q1]: > provides a useful version of Unix for the PC at very low cost,[/q1]
andit
[q1]: > also provides many quite useful tools... it is not intended to[/q1]
compete
[q1]: > with the Microsoft applications nor is it able to. To rebel[/q1]
against
[q1]: > Microsoft is fine, they ae a victim of their own success and[/q1]
everyone
[q1]: > can find a fault with their software, it is memory hungry and comparitively slow and pondorous[/q1]
[q1]: > for the powerful machines that[/q1]
run
[q1]: > it.. but does Linux offer a useful alternative. Nowhere near.[/q1]
Linux
[q1]: > is great for people who want a cheap server, but despite a[/q1]
ridiculous
[q1]: > amount of development it is nowhere![/q1]
[q1]: >[/q1]
[q1]: Maybe I am living in a pipedream....I am using MS Windows after[/q1]
all.;-)
[q1]: Linux can be seen as either as a Workstation and a server without[/q1]
having to
[q1]: purchase extra licenses....IBM have commited to providing support[/q1]
for Linux
[q1]: by porting its DB to it, Borland have committed to Linux by[/q1]
providing a
[q1]: development tools (Kylix I believe) for it. These are just to name[/q1]
2. Linux
[q1]: may not be a threat just yet, but give it a few more years of[/q1]
development
[q1]: and it will truely kick ass. Linux was the first to provide support[/q1]
for IA64
[q1]: (If I recall) as well as USB2.0....Where is MS with these? You have[/q1]
proven
[q1]: my point why people should use Linux....MS is memory hungry...and[/q1]
that is
[q1]: just the OS. Linux has at least 3 MS Office compatible applications (StarOffice is being one).[/q1]
[q1]: Even though I admit that not everyone[/q1]
will be
[q1]: able to use Linux straight away, but I don't know anyone who took[/q1]
duck to
[q1]: water with MS Office or MS Windows straight away. ;-). You also[/q1]
proven my
[q1]: point....at least Linux is being developed...haven't seen much[/q1]
development
[q1]: with Windows (no need to say why improve on perfection...MS is no[/q1]
way near
[q1]: being perfect).[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: > Get real, go with Linux exclusively and enter the computting wasteland....[/q1]
[q1]: >[/q1]
[q1]: I am real. I have no intention of going with Linux[/q1]
exclusively..yet..I am
[q1]: being dictated by the subjects I study. Don't take what I said in[/q1]
haste....I
[q1]: am trying to provide a balanced opinion. ;-)[/q1]
[q1]: > Martin.[/q1]
[q1]: >[/q1]
[q1]: >[/q1]
[q1]: > "Prashant Meswani" <[email protected]> wrote in message[/q1]
[q1]: > news:[email protected]...[/q1]
[q1]: > : Are you employed by MS by any chance? ;-).[/q1]
[q1]: > :[/q1]
[q1]: > : Even though MS has the dominance in the OS and Office Apps[/q1]
[q1]: > Market. Linux[/q1]
[q1]: > : offers the one thing MS can't. Portability. Fair enough you have[/q1]
to
[q1]: > compile[/q1]
[q1]: > : the code on each platform (or use different library), but[/q1]
Linux
[q1]: > does has[/q1]
[q1]: > : some more flexibility. I am guilty in the fact that I am using[/q1]
[q1]: > Windows, but[/q1]
[q1]: > : that is because the courses I am doing requires Windows. Yes I[/q1]
could
[q1]: > use[/q1]
[q1]: > : Wine, VMMWare and every other emulator under the sun, but my[/q1]
system
[q1]: > is slow[/q1]
[q1]: > : enough as it is. Given the chance, I would convert completely to[/q1]
[q1]: > Linux.[/q1]
[q1]: > :[/q1]
[q1]: > : "Mart64" <[email protected]_spam_co.u k> wrote in message[/q1]
[q1]: > : news:[email protected]...[/q1]
[q1]: > : > Seems a bit daft to avoid the most popular business tool in[/q1]
use
[q1]: > : > throughout the western workd today! i use Sparc Unix at work[/q1]
a
[q1]: > bit[/q1]
[q1]: > : > and we have some silicon graphics machines too. To be honest[/q1]
I
[q1]: > prefer[/q1]
[q1]: > : > to program using Unix and two textedit windows... but I much[/q1]
[q1]: > prefer[/q1]
[q1]: > : > Excel and even Visio to the Unix offerings. Linux is OK but it[/q1]
[q1]: > isn;t[/q1]
[q1]: > : > really going anywhere IMO but is a useful teaching ais to[/q1]
those
[q1]: > who[/q1]
[q1]: > : > want Unix at home.. I 'spose the Mac is an example of that now[/q1]
[q1]: > too.[/q1]
[q1]: > : > Fortunately I can stop worrying about VMS as we haven't got[/q1]
those
[q1]: > : > anymore.[/q1]
[q1]: > : >[/q1]
[q1]: > : > You can be a rebel if ya want but I think it is just being[/q1]
silly -
[q1]: > : > like the Netscape people..it was rubbish![/q1]
[q1]: > : >[/q1]
[q1]: > : > Martin.[/q1]
[q1]: > : >[/q1]
[q1]: > : >[/q1]
[q1]: > : >[/q1]
[q1]: > : >[/q1]
[q1]: > : > "Adam Atkinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message[/q1]
[q1]: > : > news:[email protected]...[/q1]
[q1]: > : > : Do OU courses that say you need "a computer" mean a computer[/q1]
[q1]: > with[/q1]
[q1]: > : > : Windows on it?[/q1]
[q1]: > : > :[/q1]
[q1]: > : > : My main machine is an Amiga, though I have a second computer[/q1]
[q1]: > with[/q1]
[q1]: > : > : Linux and FreeBSD. I would imagine that at least Macintosh[/q1]
and
[q1]: > Linux[/q1]
[q1]: > : > : users are foreseen to some extent. I have been, am, and plan[/q1]
to
[q1]: > : > remain,[/q1]
[q1]: > : > : MS-free at home.[/q1]
[q1]: > : > :[/q1]
[q1]: > : > : --[/q1]
[q1]: > : > : Adam Atkinson ([email protected]) You've got to get a hat if you want to get ahead.[/q1]
[q1]: > : > :[/q1]
[q1]: > : >[/q1]
[q1]: > : >[/q1]
[q1]: > :[/q1]
[q1]: > :[/q1]
[q1]: >[/q1]
[q1]: >[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
0
Mart64
Badges:
#17
Report 17 years ago
#17
Yes sure... we have some versions of Oracle that are Unix only... great enviroment a text editor
is.... Unix is fine.. a old established operating system that provides the computing layer for other
OS as well. However, it is losing out. The best use in the real world for Unix or rather Linux) is
as a server. It is a great OS... requires little power, little memory and performs strongly and
reliably. Unfortunately less than 2% of computers run it.

The spirit of the "old computing west" is still going with people like you. You using Lynx for your
internet experience??

Hehehe

Martin.

"Adam Atkinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[q1]: On 18-Apr-02 00:54:33, Mart64 said:[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: >You are living in a pipedream! While I do not dengrate Linux, as[/q1]
it
[q1]: >provides a useful version of Unix for the PC at very low cost,[/q1]
andit
[q1]: >also provides many quite useful tools... it is not intended to[/q1]
compete
[q1]: >with the Microsoft applications nor is it able to.[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: I'm not "rebelling". I've been MS-free at home for about 20 years[/q1]
and
[q1]: would prefer to stay that way.[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: Also, whatever the OU offers for most courses, I would have thought (some) CS courses would[/q1]
[q1]: support or even require the use of something unix-like.[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: --[/q1]
[q1]: Adam Atkinson ([email protected]) Do not look into laser with remaining eye.[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
0
Adam Atkinson
Badges:
#18
Report 17 years ago
#18
On 21-Apr-02 00:43:21, Mart64 said:

[q1]>The spirit of the "old computing west" is still going with people like you. You using Lynx for your[/q1]
[q1]>internet experience??[/q1]

Well, my Linux/FreeBSD system is my second machine. My main machine is this Amiga. My main uses of
the internet are email and news, I'd say. I do use the web as well, of course.

I do have some Amiga web browsers. They're not text-only. I do use lynx on Linux and FreeBSD, mostly
to read local html files. I also like checking web sites with lynx to see if they're at all usable.
Web pages I write don't specify fonts or colours, and only have pictures if they absolutely need
them. They'd mostly look the same in Lynx as elsewhere, near enough.

--
Adam Atkinson ([email protected]) When we declare an alien species to be raman, it does not mean
that _they_ have passed a threshold of moral maturity. It means that we have.
0
Mart64
Badges:
#19
Report 17 years ago
#19
Who is going to take the time to teach students a new OS that is not especially friendly to use? How
are you going to teach them to install it ? Installations of Linux are not necessarily friendly even
with Disk Druid and the like! VMWare and the like is extraordinarily expensive...

And for why... All software that students need to use will be Microsoft compatible because it is the
industry standard! Students can "port" their skills to other environments as required later! They
cannot cater for the tiny minority of Linux users.

It is useful to have experience of Unix, we have Sun Sparc stations and some Ultra and Blades
available (although the quality is dropping) and we also can run Exceed to run a Unix session over
Windows NT/2000. We only use Oracle under Unix and some statistical software. I prefer to code C and
Java under Unix but then I am old fashioned and am not into these Graphical programming IDEs....

Martin.

"Mark A. Hill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[q1]: On 18 Apr 2002 18:26:45 +0100, Adam Atkinson <[email protected]> wrote: ...[/q1]
[q1]: >[/q1]
[q1]: > Also, whatever the OU offers for most courses, I would have[/q1]
thought
[q1]: > (some) CS courses would support or even require the use of[/q1]
something
[q1]: > unix-like.[/q1]
[q1]: >[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like any course requires unix-like environment. Hopefully someone[/q1]
[q1]: can prove me wrong. It's a shame, but I suppose it would be difficult to explain to[/q1]
[q1]: distance-learning students how to install another OS. (Having said that are several versions of[/q1]
[q1]: Unix that run on top of windows).[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: As a side note, it's not like the OU have never heard of Unix. They[/q1]
have
[q1]: a linux gazzette mirror at linux.open.ac.uk and some sort of email support for students who wish[/q1]
[q1]: to install linux. (But I don't how far that support goes. [/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: Bye from[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: --[/q1]
[q1]: Mark Hill -- T171 & T223[/q1]
0
Ian Robinson
Badges:
#20
Report 17 years ago
#20
On Sun, 21 Apr 2002 0:38:09 +0100, Mart64 wrote (in message <[email protected] k>):

[q1]> they stole the GUI from Xerox PARC first, but Bill Gates marketed his highly flawed version first.[/q1]
[q1]> If you look at computer history the best[/q1]

This is wrong. Apple paid for the rights to use the GUI elements develeoped at Xerox. They did not
steal them.

They also developed them significantly after getting the rights. They didn't use the PARC
stuff directly.

Ian

--
Ian Robinson - Belfast - UK - <http://www.canicula.com> "It only has one knob on it, which I really
like. The louder knob!" - Brian May.
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