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    this forum is why i hate society, any vile person like that deserves no 'human' rights because they can't be human
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    (Original post by housat)
    Please don't ignore the truth because of life long brainwashing
    Well said well said.

    The objective truth is objective truth regardless of people's liberal brainwashing.


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    (Original post by William2813)
    this forum is why i hate society, any vile person like that deserves no 'human' rights because they can't be human
    Why is it this forums fault that those Swedish immigrants were vile?


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    (Original post by Objectivism2017)
    Why is it this forums fault that those Swedish immigrants were vile?


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    noo i meant the title of the forum, not the forum itself
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    War is terrible and refugees should be supported in someway. Now if you are taken in by a host country as a refugee then I think that is a privilege. Because the host has to go a long way out to accomandate the refugee. Their is money that it costs, the house or shelter they have to find, the food and medicine they have to find and the education they sometimes provide. Now most of this costs money to the state which probably comes partly or whole from the government's money pot that taxes are paid in to. Now the locals might find annoying because that's money that could be spent on them or community improving their standards of living. So it is a privilage to be accepted and looked after a country as a refugee.

    Now part of that privilageI think is that the governemnt is doing so much for you, you have to do so much for the government. You know like the usual things, don't be a hassle, don't break the law, don't be a problem to the neighbours, respect everyone. The things that makes a place to live nice. So if you break the law then some of your privilages should be restricted or taken away like, anyone else regardless of their backgorund or refugee status. If I borke the law, I get fined, money taken away or get community sentence, which is time taken away, or lose a licence, which is skill taken away, or go to jail, which is freedom taken away. So rape is a serious crime, up their with murder and others. It's one of those big no no ones to do. Surely it feels like it's not the right thing to do.

    So surely the judge should just deport them. They broke the law so their privilages should of been taken away. They should of known what could be at stake when they were thinking or doing the crime. So by commiting such a horrific crime, they had their chance, and should be deported for someone else to have their place. Also 3 weeks, for rape, I knew someone who got longer then that in community service for speeding, no one died, and I doubt the people he overtook suffered from any mental health problems as a result of his speeding. But raping someone, the whole physical assault, and then the mental support the victim would need just to set foot outside their house without fear is going to a huge commitment. 3 weeks should be more like 30 years. Just seem to go to show that the law depednds who you are, I thought it was common law for all who live in the country. I feel sorry for the vunerable people who were just living their lives and now fear leaving the house because of the few number of bad refugees. I know I am going to get some backlash from this.
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    (Original post by MJlover)

    Perhaps the most important part of this historical event was Mehmed II’s treatment of the defeated Byzantines. He did not kill the residents of the city and in fact encouraged them to stay in Constantinople by absolving them of taxes. He insisted that the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate stay in the city and rule the Christians of the city on his behalf. While to the rest of Europe, the idea of religious tolerance was a foreign concept, Mehmed followed the Islamic principles on treatment of non-Muslims and gave religious freedom and rights to the Christians of Constantinople. His abilities in battle and his virtuous qualities earned him the nickname “al-Fatih” or “the Conqueror”.

    http://lostislamichistory.com/mehmed...phets-promise/
    If you discount evidence from reputed primary sources, and instead believe unsourced internet Islamic propaganda sites, there is nothing much to be said.

    Except, I suppose, that my previously high opinion of the LSE as a serious seat of learning has taken something of a battering during our discussion.
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    If you discount evidence from reputed primary sources, and instead believe unsourced internet Islamic propaganda sites, there is nothing much to be said.

    Except, I suppose, that my previously high opinion of the LSE as a serious seat of learning has taken something of a battering during our discussion.
    If you actually go to the link its sourced. I otherwise wouldn't have posted it.
    However, its funny you're talking about propaganda considering your overall argument.
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    (Original post by MJlover)
    If you actually go to the link its sourced. I otherwise wouldn't have posted it.
    However, its funny you're talking about propaganda considering your overall argument.
    I did go to the the link. I saw a couple of secondary works cited as a bibliography, that was it. It wasn't in any way scholarly, it wasn't a serious peer reviewed contribution to academic research, it was junk. Internet propaganda. Hagiography, not history.

    I can't believe you would produce something as embarrassingly worthless as that into a discussion on the subject, actually.

    Don't you use primary sources at the LSE? Or even secondary ones? Is this the standard of the scholarship there? Do you write essays based on websites like this??

    I wouldn't be surprised if it was all a student at a joke university like West London or London Met could come up with as historical evidence. But I expected better from a student at the LSE.

    I am not saying that as an internet debating point. I mean it. I am genuinely shocked...
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    I did go to the the link. I saw a couple of secondary works cited as a bibliography, that was it. It wasn't in any way scholarly, it wasn't a serious peer reviewed contribution to academic research, it was junk. Internet propaganda. Hagiography, not history.

    I can't believe you would produce something as embarrassingly worthless as that into a discussion on the subject, actually.

    Don't you use primary sources at the LSE? Or even secondary ones? Is this the standard of the scholarship there? Do you write essays based on websites like this??

    I wouldn't be surprised if it was all a student at a joke university like West London or London Met could come up with as historical evidence. But I expected better from a student at the LSE.

    I am not saying that as an internet debating point. I mean it. I am genuinely shocked...
    Why would you dismiss a secondary source? Why?? Don't you think those historians use primary sources to argue .... do you think they make up arguments?

    Essays are also argued (and in my case, we study international, usually modern history) with secondary sources where you have to assess the scholar's viewpoint.
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    (Original post by MJlover)
    Why would you dismiss a secondary source? Why?? Don't you think those historians use primary sources to argue .... do you think they make up arguments?

    Essays are also argued (and in my case, we study international, usually modern history) with secondary sources where you have to assess the scholar's viewpoint.
    I am not dismissing secondary sources. I am accusing you, a student at a world renowned university, of accepting, on trust, an Islamist internet propaganda site.

    The only reason I can think of why you would do that is because you are a Muslim yourself and want to believe it.

    You are not "assessing the scholar's viewpoint", you are in no position to do so, because you haven't read the works cited, have you?
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    I am not dismissing secondary sources. I am accusing you, a student at a world renowned university, of accepting, on trust, an Islamist internet propaganda site.

    The only reason I can think of why you would do that is because you are a Muslim yourself and want to believe it.

    You are not "assessing the scholar's viewpoint", you are in no position to do so, because you haven't read the works cited, have you?
    I meant thats what I do for my history degree, assess historians viewpoints who often argue from secondary opinions.

    Its not a propaganda site, its a Muslim site. Do you think so negatively of all Muslim media sites?
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    (Original post by MJlover)
    Its not a propaganda site, its a Muslim site. Do you think so negatively of all Muslim media sites?
    I don't come across very many of them.

    That one worried me more than anything, actually. If someone like you, a student reading history at a serious university, uses it as a credible source for her understanding of Islamic history, what hope is there for less educated Muslims?

    It would be like me forming my views on the horrors of the Reformation and Counter Reformation, not from a study of scholarly works on the subject, but from a proselytising website produced by the Vatican.
    .
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    I don't come across very many of them.

    That one worried me more than anything, actually. If someone like you, a student reading history at a serious university, uses it as a credible source for her understanding of Islamic history, what hope is there for less educated Muslims?

    It would be like me forming my views on the horrors of the Reformation and Counter Reformation, not from a study of scholarly works on the subject, but from a proselytising website produced by the Vatican.
    .
    Its not my problem that you have an issue with religion. I'd say the Vatican would at least be good for 'primary sources'. However I don't view historians as ever being completely unbiased.
    Great historians have their own critical viewpoints.

    And I already told you, I used the Muslim website for their sources...?
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    (Original post by joe cooley)
    How very compassionate of you.

    Tell me, do you consider the young victims ruined life a price worth paying for your compassion?
    Your point makes zero sense. Someone committing a crime does not mean you should deport them to almost certain torture. Like for like punishment is moronic and archaic


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Your point makes zero sense. Someone committing a crime does not mean you should deport them to almost certain torture. Like for like punishment is moronic and archaic


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    Wrong.

    My point makes perfect sense.

    If an individual is granted asylum in country A after fleeing country B then proceeds to commit a vile crime, his right to asylum should be withdrawn.

    What country B does with them has nothing to do with country A.

    Now, are you willing to answer my question?

    Tell me, do you consider the young victims ruined life a price worth paying for your compassion?
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    (Original post by joe cooley)
    Wrong.

    My point makes perfect sense.

    If an individual is granted asylum in country A after fleeing country B then proceeds to commit a vile crime, his right to asylum should be withdrawn.

    What country B does with them has nothing to do with country A.

    Now, are you willing to answer my question?

    Tell me, do you consider the young victims ruined life a price worth paying for your compassion?
    Your question is not asking what you've explained above.

    I've made my answer very clear; nobody should be be deported to almost certain torture. What country B does is very much relevant to country A. Governments should be held to a higher standard than individuals in every sense so while you and others on here are free to think they deserve to be deported and face the consequences the Swedish government don't have the luxury of being do barbaric


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    (Original post by MJlover)
    European type of slavery and Imperialism was more thorough and detrimental and more recent.
    Are you saying that the Arab slave trade between the seventh and twentieth centuries, involving between eleven and fourteen million slaves was not comparable to the Atlantic slave trade involving similar numbers over three centuries? And that it ended earlier? If you are then I think you are wrong on both counts.
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    (Original post by MJlover)
    Its not my problem that you have an issue with religion.
    I don't have an "issue" with religion. It has been a source for tremendous good in the world, many, perhaps most of mankind's greatest intellectual and cultural achievements. It has been an immensely civilising influence, and on balance probably more a force for good than harm.

    But the harm has been extraordinary as has the good. The killings, torture and enslavement performed by man against man in the name of religion stain the pages of history.

    Christianity and Islam were born out of killing and death. Both were spread by the sword. Christians realise this, on the whole I think, Muslims have a block. "There is no compulsion in religion" runs the mantra. I imagine you take this view, too,

    Which is why you fail to accept that the 29 May 1453 was a day of great bloodshed, rapine and plunder in Constantinople, and you will discount any evidence to demonstrate that which is presented to you, whatever sources you read, primary or secondary.

    But do uncritically accept the interpretation of a website which is in no way scholarly, simply because it tells you what you want to believe.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Are you saying that the Arab slave trade between the seventh and twentieth centuries, involving between eleven and fourteen million slaves was not comparable to the Atlantic slave trade involving similar numbers over three centuries? And that it ended earlier? If you are then I think you are wrong on both counts.
    You actually don't make sense. The British killed more and enslaved more on a shorter time period.
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    (Original post by housat)
    Well they do commit rapes and they are the problem. Sweden would have virtually no crime if it was 100% Swedish. I was referring more to refugees specifically with """"people""", but non-white privilege extends to all non-whites [/sarcasm]
    I am sorry, but are you retarded?
 
 
 
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