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Is trump wanting to build a wall racist/completely wrong? watch

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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Er, no it didn't. Did you not know that Germany was actually two separate countries while the Berlin Wall was up?
    yes Germany was one country then they split it in 2 and built a wall right??
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    (Original post by Treeroy)
    yes Germany was one country then they split it in 2 and built a wall right??
    Yes, but it was two separate countries while the wall was up. If them being the same country at a point before that meant building a wall was wrong, then you could make the case that a US-Mexico wall is equally wrong, as all four US border states were part of Mexico before they were part of the US.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Yes, but it was two separate countries while the wall was up. If them being the same country at a point before that meant building a wall was wrong, then you could make the case that a US-Mexico wall is equally wrong, as all four US border states were part of Mexico before they were part of the US.
    the US and mexico are not currently one united country. really struggling to see your point. Trump is not trying to divide the southern states to create new states.
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    (Original post by Treeroy)
    the US and mexico are not currently one united country. really struggling to see your point.
    Nor were the GDR (East Germany) and the FRG (West Germany) while the Berlin Wall existed.
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    I like how people think it's all Trump's idea when (I'm led to believe) it was proposed before he took office.
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    When I was a kid, I use to build walls made out of cushions to keep out my younger brother. But then I stopped because he stopped sharing his sweets with me.
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    It's going to be a very large fence.
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    For all the things to hate on trump for the wall is not one of them. He may have proposed the idea in a way that made you want to say "shut up you prick" but the concept is not really that bad.


    If you percevie there to be a problem with illegal immigrants and drugs coming over the border then it is natural that you want to stop this from happening. How can you stop it from happening? physcially stop things coming over the border.

    If i go abroad i have to go through passport control and customs to a) make sure i'm entering the country legally and b ) make sure i'm not carrying anything i shouldn't be. This is exactly the same concept just executed differently.
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    (Original post by blue n white army)
    For all the things to hate on trump for the wall is not one of them. He may have proposed the idea in a way that made you want to say "shut up you prick" but the concept is not really that bad.


    If you percevie there to be a problem with illegal immigrants and drugs coming over the border then it is natural that you want to stop this from happening. How can you stop it from happening? physcially stop things coming over the border.

    If i go abroad i have to go through passport control and customs to a) make sure i'm entering the country legally and b ) make sure i'm not carrying anything i shouldn't be. This is exactly the same concept just executed differently.
    Planes and boats. Overstaying legal visas.

    Is a wall worth it? Did Trump do a cost-benefit analysis? Oh right, there is not cost, coz Mexico will pay. My bad.
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    (Original post by ChickenMadness)
    The great wall of china worked pretty well keeping the Mongols out.

    Probably where Trump got the idea from lol
    Or maybe from Hadrian's Wall which kept the Scots out :lol:
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    (Original post by blue n white army)
    If you percevie there to be a problem with illegal immigrants and drugs coming over the border then it is natural that you want to stop this from happening. How can you stop it from happening? physcially stop things coming over the border.
    There's more than one border. Will I just be able to step around the end of this wall at low water?

    There is a problem with drugs. There have been many tunnels, drones and catapults used to cross the Mexico land border, not to mention boats and submarines elsewhere.

    A wall is a simplistic approach to a much more complicated issue. The US economy relies on illegal immigrants. AFAIK, he's not currently proposing deporting them all. As you are automatically a US citizen if born in the US, there are lots of Mexican families where the children are US citizens, but not the parents - not so simple to deport all illegal immigrants then, unless you're a heartless illegitimate..
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    No I live in the most segregated and religiously motivated troubled zone on the planet (Northern Ireland) and if there was no wall there would be rocket launchers every night in quite a nice area. It' belfast can be like Gotham City it's potential is huge and it's a nice area but the conflict here is and was second to none I think it's the worst ever and the wall was necessary.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Nor were the GDR (East Germany) and the FRG (West Germany) while the Berlin Wall existed.
    The difference between the Berlin Wall (and the whole fortified border between West Germany and the DDR) and Trump's putative barrier, is that one wall was built to prevent people leaving the country.

    And the other is planned to prevent foreign nationals entering.

    The West Germans didn't mind people crossing the Berlin Wall, in fact they encouraged it. Just like the Mexicans don't mind their nationals going to live in the US illegally.

    (In fact they turn a blind eye to it too because of the remittances sent back).

    Another fairly important difference is that the East German border guards shot their nationals trying to jump the wall.

    Really the two walls are not comparable.
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    You do know the wall is a massive waste of money and will not stop illegals.
    Most fly over.
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    (Original post by fleky6910)
    You do know the wall is a massive waste of money and will not stop illegals.
    Most fly over.
    This we are in agreement on.

    Also a huge amount stay illegally rather than arriving legally. If someone comes on a Visa and then stays illegally, a wall will do nothing to stop them.

    It would be a massive waste of money and frankly I cannot see the Republicans passing it through Congress.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    This we are in agreement on.

    Also a huge amount stay illegally rather than arriving legally. If someone comes on a Visa and then stays illegally, a wall will do nothing to stop them.

    It would be a massive waste of money and frankly I cannot see the Republicans passing it through Congress.
    No that is what I am counting on.
    I can't see the GOP allowing the wall.

    I am hoping the tax cuts and corp tax cuts pass.

    But the wall is a terrible waste of money.

    Thought you would like the wall?
    It may have a fiscal multiplier
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    (Original post by fleky6910)
    No that is what I am counting on.
    I can't see the GOP allowing the wall.

    I am hoping the tax cuts and corp tax cuts pass.

    But the wall is a terrible waste of money.

    Thought you would like the wall?
    It may have a fiscal multiplier

    The wall doesn't generate an income like social housing does.

    The Group of Republicans who would have most readily backed the wall would have been the Freedom Caucus (even though they pretend to be libertarian) but he's now made enemies of them.

    The tax cuts and corporation tax cuts are likely to be watered down too. He was counting on saving money from repealing Obamacare to fund the tax cuts.

    Also he is likely to run into opposition, Moderate Republicans in swing seats are unlikely to want to back massive tax cuts for the wealthy while at the same time supporting massive spending cuts for public services.

    This guy does not have a clue what he is doing or what his ideology is.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)


    The Group of Republicans who would have most readily backed the wall would have been the Freedom Caucus (even though they pretend to be libertarian) but he's now made enemies of them.

    The tax cuts and corporation tax cuts are likely to be watered down too. He was counting on saving money from repealing Obamacare to fund the tax cuts.

    Also he is likely to run into opposition, Moderate Republicans in swing seats are unlikely to want to back massive tax cuts for the wealthy while at the same time supporting massive spending cuts for public services.

    This guy does not have a clue what he is doing or what his ideology is.
    It is a shame he couldn't repeal obamacare.
    From what gladstone said the bill was an awful one ( too left and din't go far enough).
    He needed to proceed with a more thorough overhaul.
    He is facing opposition from the right if his party.
    The tax cuts have a decent chance of passing.

    The corporation tax cuts will raise revenue(providing his protectionism is blocked).
    The tax cuts will stimulate growth and investment.
    The stock market reacted well to a Trump victory on the hope of deregulation and tax cuts
    A non partisan foundation estimated they could lift wages nearly 8 percent and produce 1.7 million new jobs over the decade.
    Also a harvard economist said Trump would be able to boost growth from 2% to 4%.
    Inflation will be a problem( quite a big one) but if the tax cuts go to the wealthy inflation won't rise much.
    The funny thing with Trump is that he is a Keynesian in a way as he is ignoring inflation.

    If he can win the hardliners over then he can pass them. The GOP should be supporting tax cuts. I am not sure they will abandon austerity however.
    Trump will cut areas ( hopefully public spending) to pay for them

    (Original post by Bornblue)

    This guy does not have a clue what he is doing or what his ideology is.
    True, better than crooked Hilary.
    I was hoping for a Ron Paul victory then supported Cruz ( Kasich was a good choice but had no chance and he let Trump win by not dropping out).
    We have to hope the GOP can accept his good policies(tax cuts, deregulation) and block his bad policies( wall and protectionism)
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    (Original post by fleky6910)
    It is a shame he couldn't repeal obamacare.
    From what gladstone said the bill was an awful one ( too left and din't go far enough).
    He needed to proceed with a more thorough overhaul.
    He is facing opposition from the right if his party.
    The bill managed to annoy people on the right and left of the Republican party. The right wanted a total repeal, whereas moderate Republicans felt it was in effect too right wing and kicked too many people off healthcare.

    Obamacare has high approval ratings at the moment.

    The tax cuts have a decent chance of passing.
    Depends. Moderate tax cuts yes, but huge tax cuts no. He simply cannot justify a $1 trillion infrastructure project while at the same time cutting taxes hugely.


    The corporation tax cuts will raise revenue(providing his protectionism is blocked).
    We've had this debate in depth so let's not get into it again. There are several factors, though my initial opinion is that cutting so drastically from 36% to 15% will at least in the short term (3-4 years) cost money. Even if the 15% rate does attract corporations, it takes a long time and much planning for them to actually relocate.

    Also, as you say, corporations will be put off by Trump's trade tariffs and protectionism which will likely override any benefits to them of a low tax rate.

    The tax cuts will stimulate growth and investment.
    Again, see above. Maybe, depends on the tax cuts and a whole host of other factors.

    The stock market reacted well to a Trump victory on the hope of deregulation and tax cuts
    The stock market changes all the time. It's not a particularly good long term indicator. Any benefits of deregulation and tax cuts will likely be overridden by tariffs.

    A non partisan foundation estimated they could lift wages nearly 8 percent and produce 1.7 million new jobs over the decade.
    Also a harvard economist said Trump would be able to boost growth from 2% to 4%.
    Links?

    If he can win the hardliners over then he can pass them. The GOP should be supporting tax cuts. I am not sure they will abandon austerity however.
    Trump will cut areas ( hopefully public spending) to pay for them
    Considering he's promised a $1 trillion dollar infrastructure project, it doesn't look likely. Democrats may even support him on that one.

    He's made an enemy of the Republican hardliners already and they will be less likely to back him now.

    True, better than crooked Hilary.
    I hardly think Trump is any less crooked.
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    Wouldn't say racist, just a colossal, stupid waste of billions of dollars that won't work.
 
 
 
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