If Western justice systems are racist...

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Poll: IS the justice system sexist?
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Jammy Duel
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#1
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...are they sexist too?

People like to argue that western Justice systems, particularly the US system is racist when comparing the demographics of those incarcerated and the general population. If we do this with gender do we get it being clearly sexist, after all men are 10 times as likely to be incarcerated in a US prison, and about 20 times more likely in the UK?

Or is it that it is permissible to bring up relative crime rates if we aren't talking about race?
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username2950448
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
...are they sexist too?

People like to argue that western Justice systems, particularly the US system is racist when comparing the demographics of those incarcerated and the general population. If we do this with gender do we get it being clearly sexist, after all men are 10 times as likely to be incarcerated in a US prison, and about 20 times more likely in the UK?

Or is it that it is permissible to bring up relative crime rates if we aren't talking about race?
There are some justifications for a gender-specific justice system from a sociological POV: (i) there is evidence that women respond differently to different treatment (viz. men) - see: Blanchette and Brown (2006); (ii) the impact of imprisonment is greater for women (see: self-harming statistics); and (iii) women commit less crime and less serious crime than men (see: Moxen; Hedderman and Hough).
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Jammy Duel
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(Original post by Palmyra)
There are some justifications for a gender-specific justice system from a sociological POV: (i) there is evidence that women respond differently to different treatment (viz. men) - see: Blanchette and Brown (2006); (ii) the impact of imprisonment is greater for women (see: self-harming statistics); and (iii) women commit less crime and less serious crime than men (see: Moxen; Hedderman and Hough).
How many of these, and to what extent, do they also apply with race? The last point certainly does
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sinatraa
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Saying it's sexist doesn't change the fact that it is racist.
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username2950448
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
How many of these, and to what extent, do they also apply with race? The last point certainly does
Another reason why women are treated differently is that they are more likely to be raising children, which means that fines (and, obviously, imprisonment) often affect women in a different way.

In my own view, having studied the justice system in some detail, I think it is certainly true that the justice system takes a different approach to women than men, but that this can be justified on certain (aforementioned) grounds. These grounds do not apply in a racial context, but there is also a lot of racism in the justice system (against ethnic minorities). Our criminal justice system is in terrible shape, major reform is very much needed.
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SHA1875
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
...are they sexist too?

People like to argue that western Justice systems, particularly the US system is racist when comparing the demographics of those incarcerated and the general population. If we do this with gender do we get it being clearly sexist, after all men are 10 times as likely to be incarcerated in a US prison, and about 20 times more likely in the UK?

Or is it that it is permissible to bring up relative crime rates if we aren't talking about race?
Its neither Sexist or Racist.

The black population of the UK is around 7% the prison population is 20% black. Blacks are stopped and searched more than any other group because in terms of arrests and prison population they are overrepresented. This is nothing to do with racism its to do with trends. All stats are available on the office for national statistics
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~Tara~
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(Original post by SHA1875)
Its neither Sexist or Racist.

The black population of the UK is around 7% the prison population is 20% black. Blacks are stopped and searched more than any other group because in terms of arrests and prison population they are overrepresented. This is nothing to do with racism its to do with trends. All stats are available on the office for national statistics
Trends? Trends of racism you mean? Non white people are stopped and searched more often because of stereotypes. Non white people are more likely to receive jail time than white counterparts due to stereotypes and racism. Very few judges seem to find difficult "ruining" a black offenders future but a young white male? Oh he can learn his lesson through teeny tiny sentence and an essay describing what his wrong was 🙄

Even if you have an open minded judge, you still have a jury who can be racist and sexist. Jury is more likely to convict black men than white. Less likely to convict female sex offenders than male.

No trends but the consequences of hate and stereotypes
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SHA1875
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(Original post by ~Tara~)
Trends? Trends of racism you mean? Non white people are stopped and searched more often because of stereotypes. Non white people are more likely to receive jail time than white counterparts due to stereotypes and racism. Very few judges seem to find difficult "ruining" a black offenders future but a young white male? Oh he can learn his lesson through teeny tiny sentence and an essay describing what his wrong was 🙄

Even if you have an open minded judge, you still have a jury who can be racist and sexist. Jury is more likely to convict black men than white. Less likely to convict female sex offenders than male.

No trends but the consequences of hate and stereotypes
Trends of crime

They stop and search blacks more because they committed more crimes to start with nothing to do with racism, a credible tactic if you ask me.
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Bang Outta Order
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Quite frankly the racism argument is far more prevalent and relevant than the sexism one. Cba with sexism claims in the western world.
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jape
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(Original post by ~Tara~)
Trends? Trends of racism you mean? Non white people are stopped and searched more often because of stereotypes. Non white people are more likely to receive jail time than white counterparts due to stereotypes and racism. Very few judges seem to find difficult "ruining" a black offenders future but a young white male? Oh he can learn his lesson through teeny tiny sentence and an essay describing what his wrong was 🙄

Even if you have an open minded judge, you still have a jury who can be racist and sexist. Jury is more likely to convict black men than white. Less likely to convict female sex offenders than male.

No trends but the consequences of hate and stereotypes
Ah yes, the classic racist creed of "don't do the crime if you can't do the time".
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SHA1875
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(Original post by jape)
Ah yes, the classic racist creed of "don't do the crime if you can't do the time".
Claims of racism are baseless and far fetched in my honest opinion, it's just the social justice warriors believing that black people get a rough deal in Britain -the claims of racism towards blacks goes all the way to MP level where racist left winger Diane Abbott thinks that blacks are the supreme race just listen to her speak. Despicable women

Trends of crime show that blacks are over represented in terms of arrests and prison population-the top and bottom of it is the police use prevention reactionary tactics the more crimes a group of people commit the more skeptical the police become and the impact this has Is the more arrests which are made within that demographic. Is not just blacks getting unfair treatment they do it to all sorts of people from known gang members to football hooligans, football hooligans are mainly white as not many blacks go to matches I can concur this opinion as I never see many blacks at the Birmingham match.
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~Tara~
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Your trends argument is like chicken and the egg. Is there a trend because black people just like commiting more crimes or does it appear to be a trend because more black people are convicted. Also given that racism extends into all areas of society it's not hard to grasp why ethnic minorities might actually commit more crime - they are confined to socially and economically poor areas with few opportunities and low to no social mobility.
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SHA1875
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(Original post by ~Tara~)
Your trends argument is like chicken and the egg. Is there a trend because black people just like commiting more crimes or does it appear to be a trend because more black people are convicted. Also given that racism extends into all areas of society it's not hard to grasp why ethnic minorities might actually commit more crime - they are confined to socially and economically poor areas with few opportunities and low to no social mobility.
I believe its more to do with the country they come from then anything economical a lot of the African countries are lawless that's why I think blacks go elsewhere and get arrested en masse. Im a white English lad and live in the 3rd most deprived metropolitan borough I am yet to commit a crime. I am on a fairly low wage £14996 per annum I do not go around beating people up or doing honour stabbing because someone is dealing on my patch (for the record I despise drugs) your point of economics is also baseless there are 3 black drug dealers on my estate who drive flash cars paid for their houses in cash whilst being in receipt of gironde cheques from the state. The problem is they are intolerant to the country that they reside in. I personally don't see the reason why my tax should pay for overseas subjects to be in jail when we can deport them.
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~Tara~
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With all due respect that's not low wage. I've never earned that much. Pointing out exceptions to a rule doesn't and never has completely negated its existence. I've lived off less than half your wage and I have committed a crime to keep roof over my head and some food in my stomach.

There are people who enjoy the lifestyle and people who see it as the only career they can have and others who have no choice.
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SHA1875
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[QUOTE=~Tara~;69828568]With all due respect that's not low wage. I've never earned that much. Pointing out exceptions to a rule doesn't and never has completely negated its existence. I've lived off less than half your wage and I have committed a crime to keep roof over my head and some food in my stomach.

There are people who enjoy the lifestyle and people who see it as the only career they can have and others who have no
(Original post by ~Tara~)
With all due respect that's not low wage. I've never earned that much. Pointing out exceptions to a rule doesn't and never has completely negated its existence. I've lived off less than half your wage and I have committed a crime to keep roof over my head and some food in my stomach.

There are people who enjoy the lifestyle and people who see it as the only career they can have and others who have no choice.
Are you part time or living off the state?

By the bit of only career I assume you mean drug dealers. There is positive discrimination which states you have to have a certain amount of foreigners
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Bang Outta Order
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(Original post by ~Tara~)
With all due respect that's not low wage. I've never earned that much. Pointing out exceptions to a rule doesn't and never has completely negated its existence. I've lived off less than half your wage and I have committed a crime to keep roof over my head and some food in my stomach.

There are people who enjoy the lifestyle and people who see it as the only career they can have and others who have no choice.
What crime?
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uw0tm9
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
...are they sexist too?

People like to argue that western Justice systems, particularly the US system is racist when comparing the demographics of those incarcerated and the general population. If we do this with gender do we get it being clearly sexist, after all men are 10 times as likely to be incarcerated in a US prison, and about 20 times more likely in the UK?

Or is it that it is permissible to bring up relative crime rates if we aren't talking about race?
Yes, they are sexist. Men are much more likely to go to prison for the same crime as women. Men also get longer sentences than women for the same crime provided that the women even goes to prison. Conditions in men's prisons are much worse than women's prisons. Men who report assault from a women are often arrested instead of the women because police officers believe the opposite is true due to whatever reason provided (more inclined to believe the women due to the "Woman are wonderful" affect, look it up.)

Edit: check this out, this has a lot of statistics about sexism against men, including the justice system.

http://www.realsexism.com/
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~Tara~
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(Original post by 0to100)
What crime?
Does it matter?
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SHA1875
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(Original post by ~Tara~)
Does it matter?
I'd it drug dealing?
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Jammy Duel
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(Original post by 0to100)
Quite frankly the racism argument is far more prevalent and relevant than the sexism one. Cba with sexism claims in the western world.
The point is that the very same arguments that are used for race apply to sex, so why aren't the SJWs shouting from the rafters about it being sexist against men, why is it that the arguments as to why it's "racist" against minorities not applicable to men?
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