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Muslims are not terrorists! Watch

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    (Original post by bex.anne)
    You got this qoute from an anti islam page, no bias at all.
    And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- îaram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

    I found the same quote on http://corpus.quran.com/translation....er=2&verse=191
    And on https://quran.com/2/191-201

    So you are wrong about it being anti-Islam bias. It is definitely in the Quran!

    This extract is from a Surah about war. There is nothing about innocent civilians being killed. This is about the opposition. Those who have willingly opted to participate in warfare. Have you ever looked into the Islamic criteria for war? Do you know what a just war is? Stop taking things out of context.
    rom Ibn Kathir's explanation of this verse "Allah indicated that these men are committing disbelief in Allah, associating with Him (in the worship) and hindering from His path, and this is a much greater evil and more disastrous than killing."
    Interesting that Islam considers "not believing in Allah" to be a worse act than "killing people".
    It is worth looking at this verse in context (I know how much you like that).
    The following verse says to "fight the disbelievers until all religion is for Allah". Ibn Kathir quotes Muhammad where he says "(I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight the people until they proclaim, `None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. Whoever said it, then he will save his life and property from me".

    It clearly requires an act of submission to Islam to avoid death. So not quite the "oh, it's just talking about fighting during war" that you claim.
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    (Original post by bex.anne)
    This story is FABRICATED.
    The only place you can find this online is on islamic hate pages. I have read Tabari volume 7, this is really just not true. Please don't believe everything you read on the internet.
    The problem with Tabari is that there is no English translation available, so it is very difficult to verify any claims made about it. What language did you read it in?

    However, while we are on the subject of Jews in Islam, here is a sahih Muslim hadith that is not fabricated (there are several more from Muslim and Bukhar saying the same thing)
    Ibn 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) as saying: You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me) ; kill him.
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    (Original post by bex.anne)
    I also disagree with the death penalty.
    So you think that Allah is wrong.
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    (Original post by LisaNikita)
    @asiangcse
    I speak a bit of arabic, and the last word in that picture means hell. Not whatever it is you think it is.
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    (Original post by courtneywxxd)
    There are terrorists who 'follow' Christianity, etc, eg the KKK. 'I
    Not this again.
    The KKK were a white supremacist, political organisation established to preserve the power and influence of plantation owners after the Civil War. It had no theological objectives and did not use the Bible as its justification.
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    (Original post by starfab)
    Kafir is just the arabic term for non-muslim/disbeliever. Not derogatory.
    Agreed, just as the term "deluded indoctrinate" for Muslim is not derogatory either.
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    (Original post by Ammmaaaraah)
    1400 years ago this was normal.
    So Muhammad shouldn't be seen as a good example for today's world.
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    (Original post by Ammmaaaraah)
    That verse was actually refering to an incident that happend during the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
    If it is referring to a past event that has no bearing on Islam as it is today, why is it in the Quran?
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    (Original post by courtneywxxd)
    No, when I said that they take the meanings too literally, the operative word is 'too'. Fundamentalists are extremists that claim and abuse their 'power'. They're radicalists.
    You are throwing out a lot of buzzwords but not actually constructing an argument.
    Either you take something literally, or you use some degree of interpretation and metaphor. You can't take something "a bit literally".
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    (Original post by Ammmaaaraah)
    Muslims are not taught to incite hatred for non-muslims.
    But the Quran says "Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe." - 8:55
    and
    "There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah. We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone" - 60:4

    In fact the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: If any Muslim killed a Muahid (i.e. non-Muslim living in Muslim land with agreement) then he (Muslim) shall not even smell the fragrance of Paradise although the fragrance of Paradise would have been perceived from the distance of travelling for 40 years [Sahih Bukhari, Volume No. 3, Hadith # 2995]
    The quran also says: 'Unto your religion and unto me my religion'
    Also says: 'There is no compulsion in religion'
    In another hadith: "Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, curtails their rights, burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment." (Abu dawud)
    All that quoting such passages does is further illustrate the contradictory nature of Islamic texts.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Agreed, just as the term "deluded indoctrinate" for Muslim is not derogatory either.
    Calling someone a non-muslim is not derogatory.

    Anyway peace out. I'm pretty much leaving tsr and cannnot be bothered to debate.
    And yes, I know I do have the option of not replying when quoted, hence this is what my stance is from now on.
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    (Original post by bex.anne)
    You're wrong. They're completely disregarding the criteria for war if they say that France and the US are at war with them, because the criteria for war in Islam means that no innocent civilians can be murdered. They are killing innocent civilians so no they're not justifying it by saying they're at war. Please accept that you are wrong and stop trying to argue a point that doesn't exist.
    You're just making stuff up now (or parrotting what you've read on Islamic propaganda sistes).

    The Quran makes several references to allowing Muslims to "fight those who fight you". Several western countries are involved in military operations against Muslims in the Middle East.
    It's one of the ummah's catchphrases that "the west is at war with Islam/Muslims".

    Muhammad himself deliberately murdered innocent civilians, so that is clearly not something that is forbidden during war.
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    (Original post by starfab)
    And again the stipilation of age is in this country. Why? Because children are not deemed mature at age 9. However, in that time, in that area it was the norm.
    Before you ask, no..if a girl was to be of the same maturity level as Aisha was, then I would not object to that either.
    Being of age or not is subjective. Its in accordance to each individual. Not as a group.
    All available evidence on the subject shows that girls matured older in the past. It is thought that the average age of reaching puberty in medieval Middle East was 14 years old.
    And you think it is fine for a 53 year old man to have sex with a girl still 5 years from puberty? This is what happens when we abrogate our moral responsibility to dogma.
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    (Original post by starfab)
    Calling someone a non-muslim is not derogatory.
    No it isn't.
    But we both know that "kuffar" does not simply mean "non-Muslim".

    Anyway peace out. I'm pretty much leaving tsr and cannnot be bothered to debate.
    And yes, I know I do have the option of not replying when quoted, hence this is what my stance is from now on.
    If you make comments on an issue in an open debate forum, any refusal to respond to replies will be (reasonably) taken as conceding the point. If you don't want people to have that impression it is probably best not to comment at all.
    Heat, kitchen, and all that.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    No it isn't.
    But we both know that "kuffar" does not simply mean "non-Muslim".

    If you make comments on an issue in an open debate forum, any refusal to respond to replies will be (reasonably) taken as conceding the point. If you don't want people to have that impression it is probably best not to comment at all.
    Heat, kitchen, and all that.
    Nope. It does not mean I don't have the answers. I do.
    Refusal to respond does not necessarily mean no answers.
    I'm genuinely pretty much leaving tsr. Just few things to do before that. Therefore, (salaama) peace
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    (Original post by starfab)
    Nope. It does not mean I don't have the answers. I do.
    Refusal to respond does not necessarily mean no answers.
    I'm genuinely pretty much leaving tsr. Just few things to do before that. Therefore, (salaama) peace
    Likewise, saying "I know the answer, I'm just not telling you" is also conceding the point.
    As I said, if you are not prepared to defend your position, don't state it in the first place.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Likewise, saying "I know the answer, I'm just not telling you" is also conceding the point.
    As I said, if you are not prepared to defend your position, don't state it in the first place.
    A day too late. If you'd have quoted me before, I'd have got round to it if I so saw it.
 
 
 
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