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    (Original post by starfab)
    Again, it is mentioned in the Qur'an. It's the particulars which aren't. After all it is a practical thing, hence learnt from person to person.
    And why wouldn't the particulars be mentioned in the Quran?
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    And why wouldn't the particulars be mentioned in the Quran?
    Because its concise
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    (Original post by starfab)
    Because its concise
    So the Quran has the time to insult non-believers on numerous occasions and describe hell many times, but not to describe exactly how to pray? You're just making it more and more obvious that it wasn't authored by a deity...
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    So the Quran has the time to insult non-believers on numerous occasions and describe hell many times, but not to describe exactly how to pray? You're just making it more and more obvious that it wasn't authored by a deity...
    It's a guide. Was revealed at a time when there were mainly non-believers. It promises and warns. Practical is learnt practically, as mentioned before.
    It would be rather a big book if it contained all the particulars. Zakat is quite as important. So is fasting. These are rules of fiqh, hence in hadith and learnt from person to person etc as explained.
    Not at all.
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    (Original post by starfab)
    It's a guide. Was revealed at a time when there were mainly non-believers. It promises and warns. Practical is learnt practically, as mentioned before.
    It would be rather a big book if it contained all the particulars. Zakat is quite as important. So is fasting. These are rules of fiqh, hence in hadith and learnt from person to person etc as explained.
    Not at all.
    There being mostly non-believers is totally irrelevant. God could have included everything he wanted to say in the book without making it a million pages long. After all, the Bible and other holy scriptures don't need an equivalent of hadeeth.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    So the Quran has the time to insult non-believers on numerous occasions and describe hell many times, but not to describe exactly how to pray? You're just making it more and more obvious that it wasn't authored by a deity...
    The Quran is a guidance telling truth and defining righteousness - for example righteousness is in the act of praying and following the Prophet (SAW), but the specific acts of one raising his hands in prayer or folding arms at his chest or his navel has no virtue in of itself; the act of Hajj is righteous, but shaving ones head or wearing white robes in of itself is not, etc, so therefore fine details can be left out.

    What is your criteria for a book being authored by a deity? Even if a book met this criteria, I am certain other Atheists would still reject it (as it is within their self-worshipping nature to reject everything).
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    There being mostly non-believers is totally irrelevant. God could have included everything he wanted to say in the book without making it a million pages long. After all, the Bible and other holy scriptures don't need an equivalent of hadeeth.
    It is relevant.
    The Qur'an is not an instruction manual. Hadeeth makes it all the more authentic with the chain of narration and all.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    The Quran is a guidance telling truth and defining righteousness - for example righteousness is in the act of praying and following the Prophet (SAW), but the specific acts of one raising his hands in prayer or folding arms at his chest or his navel has no virtue in of itself; the act of Hajj is righteous, but shaving ones head or wearing white robes in of itself is not, etc, so therefore fine details can be left out.

    What is your criteria for a book being authored by a deity? Even if a book met this criteria, I am certain other Atheists would still reject it (as it is within their self-worshipping nature to reject everything).
    By definition, if such a book met criteria and this could definitively be proved then many atheists would accept it. After all, we're the ones who say we're perfectly happy to change our beliefs if presented with evidence and often it's the religious who aren't ever willing to consider the possibility they could be wrong.

    As I previously said, the Quran contains numerous passages which aren't necessary and repeats many things which it wouldn't do if it were supposed to be 100% efficient and concise. It makes no sense that a deity would require such specific rituals to get to Jannah and/or please him and then not include them in the only Islamic document that is believed to be 100% the direct word of God.
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    (Original post by starfab)
    It is relevant.
    The Qur'an is not an instruction manual. Hadeeth makes it all the more authentic with the chain of narration and all.
    So there are no instructions whatsoever in the Quran, are you sure about that?
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    No normal muslim supports terrorism. Terrorism affects them as well as everybody else. The Quran never specifically insists upon wearing a hijab only that women should be dressed modestly. A lot of muslims are very tolerant towards other religions as well. You want a biscuit for this or what?
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    (Original post by iqra2159)
    I'm not homophobic
    I don't wear hijab
    I love every religion
    I don't support terrorists
    I love Donald Trump
    Spoiler:
    Show




    jk I hate him





    What do other Muslims say
    answer to each point:
    1) who cares (whilst the quran/bible/torah frown upon homosexuality, they dont say kill LBGT community. at the end of the day, if your LBGT only god can judge your life, noone else).
    2) if your a women, tonnes of women dont(rather ironically most hijabis I know are quite promiscuous vs non-hijabi muslim women)
    3)as long as they dont actively try destroying other people / religions, who cares (most of my inner circle are christians, )
    4) welcome to the 99.67753125% of muslims in the UK who hate terrorists and have to deal with these as-swipes screwing life up for the most of us.
    5) whilst I dont agree with most of his policies, I do admit I respect the fact that unlike most politicians, he is actually keeping his word so far.

    ps are you really a muslim or just phising for some answers?
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    So there are no instructions whatsoever in the Quran, are you sure about that?
    I didn't say there are no instructions whatsoever. I said it is not merely an instruction manual.
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    (Original post by starfab)
    I didn't say there are no instructions whatsoever. I said it is not merely an instruction manual.
    I never said it was an instruction manual, but if contains instructions for some things then it makes no sense to give the reason "it isn't an instruction manual" in response to the absence of prayer ritual.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    I never said it was an instruction manual, but if contains instructions for some things then it makes no sense to give the reason "it isn't an instruction manual" in response to the absence of prayer ritual.
    You questioned
    So there are no instructions whatsoever in the Quran
    I didn't claim that by saying it is not an instruction manual.
    Which means that there are not going to be instruction for every particular thing in religion in the Qur'an.
    if prayer is so important to Allah he would have included it in the Quran
    There is the instruction, countless times "establish salah" which shows it's importance. The fact that the method of praying is not mentioned in the Qur'an in no way devalues it.
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    (Original post by starfab)
    You questioned

    I didn't claim that by saying it is not an instruction manual.
    Which means that there are not going to be instruction for every particular thing in religion in the Qur'an.

    There is the instruction, countless times "establish salah" which shows it's importance. The fact that the method of praying is not mentioned in the Qur'an in no way devalues it.
    So your claim that it's "not an instruction manual" cannot be used as a justification for the fact that the prayer ritual isn't instructed because other things are. I was not saying anything about the "value" of prayer which is totally subjective anyway.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    So your claim that it's "not an instruction manual" cannot be used as a justification for the fact that the prayer ritual isn't instructed because other things are. I was not saying anything about the "value" of prayer which is totally subjective anyway.
    You are asking why the method of prayer is not mentioned in the Qur'an. Rukoo and sujood are mentioned, only the actual particulars of how to do that which aren't.
    If I tell you it's not an instuction manual, that means that it does not have to contain the instructions for everything. Otherwise you could ask, where are the instructions for fasts, where are the instruction for zakaat.
    So Yes, by claiming its not an instuction manual does negate the claim that if salaah is so important why is the actual method not mentioned.
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    (Original post by starfab)
    You are asking why the method of prayer iskot mentioned in the Qur'an. Rukoo and sujood are mentioned, only the actual particulars of how to do that which aren't.
    If I tell you it's not an instuction manual, that means that it does not have to contain the instructions for everything. Otherwise you could ask, where are the instructions for fasts, where are the instruction for zakaat.
    So Yes, by claiming its not an instuction manual does negate the claim that if salaah is so important why is the actual method not mentioned.
    Well yes, I'd expect there to be instructions for all of those things, that's the point. Putting them in there wouldn't make it ridiculously long and there are plenty of instructions and commandments about other things.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Well yes, I'd expect there to be instructions for all of those things, that's the point. Putting them in there wouldn't make it ridiculously long and there are plenty of instructions and commandments about other things.
    You backed my point.
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    (Original post by starfab)
    You backed my point.
    No I didn't.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    After all, we're the ones who say we're perfectly happy to change our beliefs if presented with evidence and often it's the religious who aren't ever willing to consider the possibility they could be wrong.
    What you consider to be evidence of God btw? (Doesn't have to be restricted to Islam/religion)
 
 
 
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