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German Federal Government spent 21.7 billion Euros on refugees in 2016 Watch

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    This is the breakdown (in billions)
    9.1 given to the state governments.
    7.1 for combating causes for fleeing within the affected countries, like humanitarian aid etc. (Tripled from last year).
    2.1 for integration services in Germany, presumably like language courses or something.
    1.7 in social welfare given to refugees/asylum seekers.
    1.4 in admin costs related to refugees/asylum seekers.

    https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/flu...osten-103.html

    Suddenly Trump's wall looks awfully cheap. It's projected to cost around 25 bn by the Washington Post.

    21.7bn is more than the 16.4bn budget for education and research, and it is only slightly less than the 24.6bn for transport and digital infrastructure. To put that in perspective: The German defence budget was 34.3bn. It's close to what the entire state of Lower Saxony made in 2016. Its more than NASA's annual budget. This is complete insanity, even exceeding the worst forecasts.

    Unless a good portion of these people gets jobs and starts paying taxes soon, this will only serve as a short-term cash injection for the economy as opposed to a long-term investment. It is not even clear how many of these people are even going to stay in Germany. The is money that could have been used to repair our crumbling physical infrastructure. Or it could have been used to provide better education to people who actually have a chance of getting a job here.

    States additionally spent a lot of their own budgets (aside from the money allocated by the Federal government). Many municipalities even had to take loans to build accommodation.

    They now have the problem that they have to pay back the loans, but they don't get money from the state/federal government because the accommodations are no longer necessary.

    My bet is that the expenditures will rise each year. Tiny percent employed or in education and rapidly growing family size. This is among African/middle eastern/ west Asian migrant groups. To most people from there being on welfare and in social housing is already dream realized compared to what they've had before.




    Of course, the German government is infamously fiscally tight. It does still have a cash surplus. So, the cash-injection forced upon them by the migrant crisis is not too awful - especially since much of that money goes back into the local economy.

    However, this is related to the broken window fallacy - much of the money spent on migrants is used up on costs like transporting food, that simply raise inflation, rather than spent on investment, education, or research. Or a simple tax break for German citizens would also have been a great boost to the economy.

    They could even have instead paid off a lot of Greek debt. Why the **** didn't they do that instead? That would have done a LOT of good for European relations, and a LOT of good for the 5 million Greeks.
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    I note that the cost was more than NASA's budget. But you don't need to be a rocket scientist to work out that this whole policy was insane from the outset.

    Merkel will go down in history as the Chancellor who destroyed the EU, but it is in Germany where her legacy will last longest. Generations yet unborn will curse her memory as they wrestle with the social problems her decisions over the past couple of years created for her country.
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    Obligatory: Was this money well spent? What do you guys think?
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    Is that it
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    Do you think there might be demographic benefits for Germany in the longer run? Given that Germany's demographic outlook was so dire prior to the immigration surge.

    Also do you have robust evidence to support your scepticism about the employment levels and tax contributions of migrants.
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    Germany is responsible for Germany's policy on refugees; the United Kingdom is responsible for the United Kingdom's policy on refugees.
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    (Original post by apt9)
    Do you think there might be demographic benefits for Germany in the longer run? Given that Germany's demographic outlook was so dire prior to the immigration surge.
    Yeah, Germany needs a lot of people, fast. But refugees are a huge drain. Most refugees will hopefully go back to whence they came, but consider the ones who don't. Even the Turks who migrated to Germany decades ago haven't integrated well. Simply put, Germany needs new people, but good quality new people, people with degrees, who can speak German, and whose children won't become a threat to German society.

    Also do you have robust evidence to support your scepticism about the employment levels and tax contributions of migrants.
    Out of well over a million refugees in total, only 34000 have found jobs, even with large incentrives for companies to hire refugees. That is less than 3%. And many of these jobs are merely temporary. https://www.thelocal.de/20161219/so-...ave-found-jobs
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    Germany is responsible for Germany's policy on refugees; the United Kingdom is responsible for the United Kingdom's policy on refugees.
    Thank you for informing me of this, I will bear this very carefully in mind until the day that I die.
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    It's disgusting, to be honest. 21.7 billion Euros that could have been spent strengthening the military or creating jobs for natives.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    and whose children won't become a threat to German society.
    Seems a bit right-wing for you lol

    To address the actual topic though, yes it's a big financial drain on Germany, especially since most aren't working. Does beg the question though of whether we should measure the value of saving lives monetarily, and I'd argue that saving lives is worth more than the money spent doing so. That does not, however, mean I support Merkel's insane migrant policy, that has no real way of verifying who is or is not a genuine refugee. Even among refugees, the process needs to include a strong screening process to keep dangerous elements out. But alas, that's too late for Germany (and Sweden) now. It would be better to provide humanitarian aid to the surrounding countries, where they would culturally fit in far better. I would actually argue too that many refugees won't go back - why would they? They can have greater wealth and security in Germany, with things like better education for their children and not living under a corrupt government in a region that always has conflicts in some form or another. If this is the case, then it actually has dangerous demographic consequences for Germany's future due to a large majority of the migrants being male. This will skew Germany's gender balance, and studies have shown that societies with higher proportions of males have higher rates of violence (this isn't some regressive left attack on males btw lol, I'm just quoting studies), not to mention shortages of things like marriage partners, so make of that what you will. Oh and yes, permanent 'cultural enrichment' sounds fun for the Germans too.
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    Germany is responsible for Germany's policy on refugees; the United Kingdom is responsible for the United Kingdom's policy on refugees.
    Actually the EU is responsible for Germany's policy on refugees.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Obligatory: Was this money well spent? What do you guys think?
    The costs spent on intergrating the refugees are very important as it helps them to find a new job. Which in return is good for Germany as ,if they get more working refugees, then they get more manpower of their economy.
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    (Original post by stoyfan)
    The costs spent on intergrating the refugees are very important as it helps them to find a new job. Which in return is good for Germany as ,if they get more working refugees, then they get more manpower of their economy.
    1) The refugees are meant to return home.
    2) Very few refugees get jobs
    3) The economy relies more on high-skilled jobs. Automation will deal with low-skilled jobs faster than the refugees will integrate.
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    (Original post by apt9)
    Do you think there might be demographic benefits for Germany in the longer run? Given that Germany's demographic outlook was so dire prior to the immigration surge.

    Also do you have robust evidence to support your scepticism about the employment levels and tax contributions of migrants.
    You assume they'll socially integrate with ease, they'll be able to get an education (of good quality since the system will be strained) and that they won't have external costs to the economy… with those assumptions you're right.
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    (Original post by zayn008)
    Might I also add, the last time the German population surged It kind of caused a world war.
    Would you care to explain your reasoning?
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    (Original post by zayn008)
    Might I also add, the last time the German population surged It kind of caused a world war.
    So what if the German population surged by the time of a world war (I am assuming you are talking about world war 2). Just because that the population surged by world war 2 doesn't mean that it necessarily played any factor in causing world war 2. World War 2 was caused because of entirely other reasons other than population and it would have happen with or without the population surge.

    Correlation is not causation.

    Anyways... my other post was only assuming if the refugees would actually use the intergration programs. Unfortunately some won't be able to or be bothered.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    1) The refugees are meant to return home.
    2) Very few refugees get jobs
    3) The economy relies more on high-skilled jobs. Automation will deal with low-skilled jobs faster than the refugees will integrate.
    Fair enough, but it will be a very long time until refugees will be able to return home.
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    (Original post by stoyfan)
    Fair enough, but it will be a very long time until refugees will be able to return home.
    Yes, it will be. But the official line is that they are only temporary. Like the "guest workers" I guess who are still in Germany..
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Yes, it will be. But the official line is that they are only temporary. Like the "guest workers" I guess who are still in Germany..
    I wonder how the German administration will even go about getting a million people to travel back to their country of origin. It's going to be pretty difficult to track everyone down, especially if some of them don't want to be found. And if many of them do have jobs at this point, it might even be economically damaging (at least in the short term).
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    (Original post by Count Bezukhov)
    I wonder how the German administration will even go about getting a million people to travel back to their country of origin. It's going to be pretty difficult to track everyone down, especially if some of them don't want to be found. And if many of them do have jobs at this point, it might even be economically damaging (at least in the short term).
    That's assuming they even know their country of origin. Can't exactly deport someone if you don't know from whence came....
 
 
 
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