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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    Certain elements of the black experience are intangible to those who haven't lived it. You wouldn't understand how it feels to have school teachers (initially) respond to you as though you are thick, to have people crossing the street as fast as their legs can carry them, to have home vendors give you problems buying a house, to have a bank manager who views you with suspicion, to be marginalized in the workplace... - all through no doing of your own.
    and you equally wouldnt understand certain elements of the white experience. both are irrelevant as consequences to your assertion that the principles and mechanisms of British society were developed and are rigged to the needs of the white man and fundamentally oppose the black man based on a issue of race. your account here doesnt touch that.
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    Certain elements of the black experience are intangible to those who haven't lived it. You wouldn't understand how it feels to have school teachers (initially) respond to you as though you are thick, to have people crossing the street as fast as their legs can carry them, to have home vendors give you problems buying a house, to have a bank manager who views you with suspicion, to be marginalized in the workplace... - all through no doing of your own.
    One way you can quickly throw off these preconceptions is to discard your current identity and act like you're white and middle class. I witnessed somebody doing it the other day. Of course it's entirely unreasonable that somebody should have to act like a white middle class person to not be presumed criminal. But I think it's the case these days that anybody who slurs and bops and hangs out in dark alleys gets presumed guilty, white, asian or black.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    and you equally wouldnt understand certain elements of the white experience. both are irrelevant as consequences to your assertion that the principles and mechanisms of British society were developed and are rigged to the needs of the white man and fundamentally oppose the black man based on a issue of race. your account here doesnt touch that.
    But it's not the statute books that box in my existence - and I never maintained that this was the case.

    It's the views and actions of those in power to preserve their standing in society.

    As an ambitious, young black male - I'm viewed as a threat, a dissident, somebody who seeks to harm the natural order of things in the post-colonial world.

    I shouldn't live where I live. I shouldn't go to the school which I attend. And I shouldn't harbour the ambitions that I hold dear.
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    (Original post by legalhustle1984)
    yes, it was, with regards directly to this thread, if i was to start a thread on racial issues then i would go deeper.

    i like discussion with you, makes me sharper.
    - you make a number of comments on this thread, those that i quoted.
    - i questioned them and we discussed them..
    - you then assert that "you were only saying that the documentary caused racial tensions'
    - i point out that you originally went further than that with additional comments and that this wasnt the only thing you had to say, thus implying you were now retracting those points.
    - you are now saying that you dont retract those comments but they werent in regard to this thread, even though they were posted on it, in reply to posts on it and in contribution to it.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    One way you can quickly throw off these preconceptions is to discard your current identity and act like you're white and middle class.
    Where exactly are you coming from?

    I witnessed somebody doing it the other day.
    What exactly are you getting at?

    Of course it's entirely unreasonable that somebody should have to act like a white middle class person to not be presumed criminal.
    Why should I change my persona? The vital ingredient is with me for life, and frankly I wouldn't want to change it.

    But I think it's the case these days that anybody who slurs and bops and hangs out in dark alleys gets presumed guilty, white, asian or black.
    Maybe I ought to emend my schedule for the week then, as that's exactly what I had in mind. :rolleyes:

    Out of interest, where are you getting this from?
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    (Original post by Invisible)
    I think there's some exaggeration here, I honestly don't think a respectable black man in a suit walking in the street with a briefcase will be treated like second class citizens - That just doesn't happen anymore, it's the 21st century.

    It's about respectability and how you present yourself; if you don't present yourself at least quite respectable, people will always be cautious. And rightly so, to an extent, lets not be naive here. A gang of youths wearing offensive clothing and sluring in an alley are likely to be troublemakers, and they know that the image they portray is not respected by the many in society anyway.

    People don't have time to analyse every person in depth, inside out and get to know them; so obviously and rightly so in general cases, first impressions matter.
    Lol either you misunderstood me, or you're backing me up? Either way, I agree with everything said.
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    But it's not the statute books that box in my existence - and I never maintained that this was the case.
    "you're white European. In which case, you would be the beneficiary of a society which has been engineered on your terms, to meet your needs"

    It's the views and actions of those in power to preserve their standing in society.

    As an ambitious, young black male - I'm viewed as a threat, a dissident, somebody who seeks to harm the natural order of things in the post-colonial world.

    I shouldn't live where I live. I shouldn't go to the school which I attend. And I shouldn't harbour the ambitions that I hold dear.
    by who though?

    and how does this suggest "you would be the beneficiary of a society which has been engineered on your terms, to meet your needs
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    Where exactly are you coming from?
    Not sure what you mean by that.

    What exactly are you getting at?
    That the other day, I met a couple who were making damn well sure that nobody was going to judge them by the colour of their skin.

    Why should I change my persona? The vital ingredient is with me for life, and frankly I wouldn't want to change it.
    You shouldn't. People should judge you on your actions and attitudes.

    Maybe I ought to emend my schedule for the week then, as that's exactly what I had in mind. :rolleyes:
    What are you getting at? :/

    Out of interest, where are you getting this from?
    Personal experience.
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    I'm interested to know where you got the notion from that I dress like a hood'lum, bop in the street and act in a way which is intrinsically different to the average middle class white person.
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    I'm interested to know where you got the notion from that I dress like a hood'lum, bop in the street and act in a way which is intrinsically different to the average middle class white person.
    I didn't say you. I'm referring to any hood'lum who bops in the street.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    "you're white European. In which case, you would be the beneficiary of a society which has been engineered on your terms, to meet your needs"
    It's the perceptions of blackness and what it stands for (subscribed to by those in power, and cultivated for generations) that are most damaging to aspirational black people like myself.


    (Original post by vienna95)
    by who though?

    and how does this suggest "you would be the beneficiary of a society which has been engineered on your terms, to meet your needs
    I don't understand what you're getting at.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    I didn't say you. I'm referring to any hood'lum who bops in the street.
    Your use of pronoun suggested otherwise.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    That the other day, I met a couple who were making damn well sure that nobody was going to judge them by the colour of their skin.
    I cannot understand what are you getting at. Explain further...
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    Your use of pronoun suggested otherwise.

    Sorry, did I say "you can.." I meant it in a general wider sense. As in somebody suffering from discrimination can.
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    I cannot understand what are you getting at. Explain further...
    It's a personal anecdote. It's not an argument for anything. I was at a wedding. I met this black couple, they were talking about the millions they had invested in a property development. They had very generic white accents, and generally came across as 'go-getters.' My observation was that they were intent on not being boxed into a racial stereotype.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    It's a personal anecdote. It's not an argument for anything. I was at a wedding. I met this black couple, they were talking about the millions they had invested in a property development. They had very generic white accents, and generally came across as 'go-getters.' My observation was that they were intent on not being boxed into a racial stereotype.
    The very fact that they seem remarkable to you is a testament to the state of play.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    Sorry, did I say "you can.." I meant it in a general wider sense. As in somebody suffering from discrimination can.
    'Tis okay.
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    The very fact that they seem remarkable to you is a testament to the state of play.
    Who are you blaming for this though?
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    Who are you blaming for this though?
    I'm not blaming anybody, as there is little point in doing so.

    I live in a hostile society - there are people (of all colours) who [for whatever reasons] resent my striving - but that doesn't stop me from achieving.
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    Hey all!

    Yea, see what's happening here. Who are the ones turning against me? Hmmm...yea...its the blacks. Why? They refuse to accept the truth. We will never change if we keep denying the truth. If blacks keep turning against each other in this way, rather than working with each other, I fear to think of the consequences.

    One guy said I need to watch Malcolm X. Friend, I have not only watched it; I have also read his autobiography. In fact, I have read the autobiography of many great black men. I am not only tuned into black culture, it is my life. But how many Malcolm X's exist in this world..seriously. Besides, I'd rather not go into that and stir up another debate.

    Another, Kay0 said I 'should know' because I am from an African family. The exact post is long. Well EXCUSE ME for not being psychic. All I know is that there is a problem in black society. Yes, many blacks are successful. Indeed, most of the blacks posting replies on this thread are very intelligent. I like mobdeeppro's replies; he would criticise but not be harsh about it. Kay0 on the other hand would simply argue without facts.

    And to Kay0, there is no such thing as a typical African family. Your argument was very weak to be perfectly honest. My family is probably nothing like yours. See, you feel as though I should act and feel a certain way because I am from a certain continent. Well, that's a bunch of crap. I wish I could meet you face to face; I'd slaughter you in a debate.

    At the time of the post, I was very angry. Yes, many of my comments may seem negative and over generalised but I don't feel a need to apologise for any of my comments. You think its easy for me to make such a post. Of course not! I have had a lot of mental conflicts telling myself that its just me being negative. But when the problem is broadcast nationally, people, we know something is wrong.

    See, Kay0 is another example of a stereotypical black person. They debate by insulting. By calling me a fool. They seem to feel that they are superior to me; that I have lost touch of my culture. I am very much in touch with my culture.

    Would I honestly post such a thread purely to insult blacks. No, a time must come when we must face reality and move forward. Sometimes reality is negative but if that's what it takes to move forward, then, yes, we must. Is it not by analysing and working on our mistakes that we improve.

    I am sure this post shall attract more insults. We'll see.

    Take care

    John
 
 
 

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