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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    I live in a hostile society - there are people (of all colours) who [for whatever reasons] resent my striving - but that doesn't stop me from achieving.
    Have you seen Daria? With the character Jodie?

    I find most people around here have lost their hostility. I think I have.
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    I haven't read the entire thread, so sorry if I'm repeating this link, but anybody interested int his thread would be interested in this

    http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialRe...20040702a.html
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    I haven't read the entire thread, so sorry if I'm repeating this link, but anybody interested int his thread would be interested in this

    http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialRe...20040702a.html
    Hey! I read a similiar article by Bill Crosby in 'The Economist'. Bill Crosby seems to agree with me.

    In the article, Bill Crosby voices similar opinions to mine. He mentions how black parents in American are ready to spend $500 on a pair of sneakers but unwilling to spend $200 on a learning system.

    The entire article is interesting though. When this problem is highlighted n an international journal such as 'The Economist', by a black educator, then we KNOW something is wrong.

    So Kay0, is Bill Crosby a fool too?

    Take care

    John
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    (Original post by jndikum)
    Hey! I read a similiar article by Bill Crosby in 'The Economist'. Bill Crosby seems to agree with me.

    In the article, Bill Crosby voices similar opinions to mine. He says how black parents in American are ready to spend $500 on a pair of sneakers but unwilling to spend $200 on a learning system.

    So Kay0, is Bill Crosby a fool too?

    Take care

    John
    I do agree with you, almost, but I think your rant should have been aimed at anybody who thinks they can be a rudeboy. White, black or asian. Because it really isn't limited to one race anymore.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    I do agree with you, almost, but I think your rant should have been aimed at anybody who thinks they can be a rudeboy. White, black or asian. Because it really isn't limited to one race anymore.
    Agreed, sadly it seems more tied to youth.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    I do agree with you, almost, but I think your rant should have been aimed at anybody who thinks they can be a rudeboy. White, black or asian. Because it really isn't limited to one race anymore.
    True. See I don't mind when people disagree with me in the way you just did. You were not rude at all.

    Take care.

    John
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    (Original post by jndikum)
    Hey all!

    Yea, see what's happening here. Who are the ones turning against me? Hmmm...yea...its the blacks. Why? They refuse to accept the truth. We will never change if we keep denying the truth.

    One guy said I need to watch Malcolm X. Friend, I have not only watched it; I have also read his autobiography. In fact, I have read the autobiography of many great black men. I am not only tuned into black culture, it is my life. But how many Malcolm X's exist in this world..seriously. Besides, I'd rather not go into that and stir up another debate.

    Another, Kay0 said I 'should know' because I am from an African family. The exact post is long. Well EXCUSE ME for not being psychic. All I know is that there is a problem in black society. Yes, many blacks are successful. Indeed, most of the blacks posting replies on this thread are very intelligent. I like mobdeeppro's replies; he would criticise but not be harsh about it. Kay0 on the other hand would simply argue without facts.

    And to Kay0, there is no such thing as a typical African family. Your argument was very weak to be perfectly honest. My family is probably nothing like yours. See, you feel as though I should act and feel a certain way because I am from a certain continent. Well, that's a bunch of crap. I wish I could meet you face to face; I'd slaughter you in a debate.

    At the time of the post, I was very angry. Yes, many of my comments may seem negative and over generalised but I don't feel a need to apologise for any of my comments. You think its easy for me to make such a post. Of course not! I have had a lot of mental conflicts telling myself that its just me being negative. But when the problem is broadcast nationally, people, we know something is wrong.

    See, Kay0 is another example of a stereotypical black person. They debate by insulting. By calling me a fool. They seem to feel that they are superior to me; that I have lost touch of my culture. I am very much in touch with my culture.

    Would I honestly post such a thread purely to insult blacks. No, a time must come when we must face reality and move forward. Sometimes reality is negative but if that's what it takes to move forward, then, yes, we must. Is it not by analysing and wokring on our mistakes that we improve.

    I am sure this post shall attract more insults. We'll see.

    Take care

    John
    MENTAL POISON

    white people also study the life and messages of malcolm x. the fact that you have does not re-enforce your "blackness". It is obvious you have failed to understand the teachings of Malcolm. he would describe you as an "uncle tom", denying your race.

    wen white, asian and chinese people have issues within there community, but they dont cry "why do our people behave the way they do".

    You have the same prejudice views as other racist, judging black individual in your town centre just because of the way they look.

    it seems that your hateful towards yourself. its like your denying your own blood.
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    (Original post by legalhustle1984)
    its like your denying your own blood.
    People should be judged on their character. Not their blood. The colour of your skin shouldn't influence a logical debate.
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    (Original post by jndikum)

    At the time of the post, I was very angry. Yes, many of my comments may seem negative and over generalised but I don't feel a need to apologise for any of my comments. You think its easy for me to make such a post. Of course not! I have had a lot of mental conflicts telling myself that its just me being negative. But when the problem is broadcast nationally, people, we know something is wrong.

    Would I honestly post such a thread purely to insult blacks. No, a time must come when we must face reality and move forward. Sometimes reality is negative but if that's what it takes to move forward, then, yes, we must. Is it not by analysing and working on our mistakes that we improve.

    I am sure this post shall attract more insults. We'll see.

    Take care

    John
    I've condensed your post, seeing as a lot of it was clearly directed at others.

    In response, I would draw you to my problems (which were by no means in the majority) with your original posting:

    "I'm black African myself and could not believe it! Tonight I feel as though every race sees us as the vermin of society...and that really sucks."
    Why did it take a television programme to alert you to this?

    (Original post by jndikum)
    Why have other minorities managed to make it in this country? Why aren't blacks catching up?
    The black experience in post-colonial European societies can be termed as nothing other than traumatic. From what I can garner, you (like myself) are in a priveleged position. Whilst it's not my desire to make excuses for other black boys, I will say this: a certain degenerate culture has emerged in the West, whereby certain black males identify themselves as 'street' figures. These people stand not for education and moralistic values, but instead for thuggery, non-ambition and an urban existence. They seek to oppose, in many cases, the teachings of their forefathers by instead forging a new identity.

    Do you not think that the above pattern of behaviour (exhibited by a large number of black youths) may be a reaction to the society in which they live in?

    What does coming onto a public, white-dominated forum achieve? Afterall, a submission of black ineptitude, from a black person, could actually serve to heighten anti-black feeling.

    Not unlike myself - you are black, you are educated, and you are ambitious. Be proud - but also be understanding.
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    (Original post by jndikum)
    Hey! I read a similiar article by Bill Crosby in 'The Economist'. Bill Crosby seems to agree with me.

    In the article, Bill Crosby voices similar opinions to mine. He mentions how black parents in American are ready to spend $500 on a pair of sneakers but unwilling to spend $200 on a learning system.

    The entire article is interesting though. When this problem is highlighted n an international journal such as 'The Economist', by a black educator, then we KNOW something is wrong.

    So Kay0, is Bill Crosby a fool too?

    Take care

    John
    Bullsh*t

    Who spend $500 on sneakers. total exaggeration.

    why are black people being scrutinised?

    when parents of other racial groups in america spend $3000 on plastic surgery and nothing on they chindrens education.
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    (Original post by legalhustle1984)
    MENTAL POISON

    white people also study the life and messages of malcolm x. the fact that you have does not re-enforce your "blackness". It is obvious you have failed to understand the teachings of Malcolm. he would describe you as an "uncle tom", denying your race.

    wen white, asian and chinese people have issues within there community, but they dont cry "why do our people behave the way they do".

    You have the same prejudice views as other racist, judging black individual in your town centre just because of the way they look.

    it seems that your hateful towards yourself. its like your denying your own blood.
    OK, i surrender now. Yes, I am hateful towards myself. Yes, I am denying my own blood. Yes, I am uncle tom. Yes, I am a fool. Call me what you want. You do not know me. Actually, I bet if we met we'd probably like each other. I never have such debates in real life. No way. On the net it's different. It's just a net debate after all eh?

    Anyway. I have exam results to worry about, much needed sleep and a rigorous gym regime. Man, this thread has tired me out.

    Take care

    John
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    I haven't read the entire thread, so sorry if I'm repeating this link, but anybody interested int his thread would be interested in this

    http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialRe...20040702a.html
    it is true, tho

    some black people, use the white man/oppression agrument as an constant excuse for underachievement.
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    I've condensed your post, seeing as a lot of it was clearly directed at others.

    In response, I would draw you to my problems (which were by no means in the majority) with your original posting:


    Why did it take a television programme to alert you to this?


    The black experience in post-colonial European societies can be termed as nothing other than traumatic. From what I can garner, you (like myself) are in a priveleged position. Whilst it's not my desire to make excuses for other black boys, I will say this: a certain degenerate culture has emerged in the West, whereby certain black males identify themselves as 'street' figures. These people stand not for education and moralistic values, but instead for thuggery, non-ambition and an urban existence. They seek to oppose, in many cases, the teachings of their forefathers by instead forging a new identity.

    Do you not think that the above pattern of behaviour (exhibited by a large number of black youths) may be a reaction to the society in which they live in?

    What does coming onto a public, white-dominated forum achieve? Afterall, a submission of black ineptitude, from a black person, could actually serve to heighten anti-black feeling.

    Not unlike myself - you are black, you are educated, and you are ambitious. Be proud - but also be understanding.
    I actually agree with you. This is the whole point of a debate right. Just because I held certain opinions at the beginning doesn't mean I'll hold them at the end. Actually, I like your replies mate. You've a good way of forming arguments.

    Yea, perhaps I have been overly aggressive with my posts.

    Take care

    John
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    People should be judged on their character. Not their blood. The colour of your skin shouldn't influence a logical debate.
    I think what legalhustle was getting at is John shouldn’t take the stance he has taken, when his skin colour places him in a position to better empathise with people who have sweeping generalisations made about them based solely on appearance, surely John should understand that to make the statements he made about "the blacks in town" uses the same pseudo-logic used by racists. i.e. he should know better!
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    What does coming onto a public, white-dominated forum achieve? Afterall, a submission of black ineptitude, from a black person, could actually serve to heighten anti-black feeling.

    Not unlike myself - you are black, you are educated, and you are ambitious. Be proud - but also be understanding.
    so true.
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    I'm going to make a fragile conjecture. Black people born today grow up in the same society that white kids and asian kids do, they goto the same schools and are taught by the same people, they see the same things on TV. White people are not so thickle that they will assume a black kid born today is automatically a rapist/mugger/thug from birth. To avoid discrimination, a black kid merely has to demonstrate that they know they belong in this society as much as a white kid, and that they don't expect to be held back. To suggest that they themselves are different, or limited by society is to limit themselves.
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    (Original post by legalhustle1984)
    so true.
    Didn't I say I agreed too? Hey, I started this thread as I was willing to listen to other's opinions. Yes, some people's opinions have changed mind. Many people seem to be treating me as thought my original opinions are carved in stone.

    John
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    (Original post by Dajo123)
    I think what legalhustle was getting at is John shouldn’t take the stance he has taken, when his skin colour places him in a position to better empathise with people who have sweeping generalisations made about them based solely on appearance, surely John should understand that to make the statements he made about "the blacks in town" uses the same pseudo-logic used by racists. i.e. he should know better!
    But I think John wants to be judged by his character and not his skin colour, he feels he is not defined by his skin colour, and so has little to do with those getting the generalisations made about them.
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    (Original post by Dajo123)
    I think what legalhustle was getting at is John shouldn’t take the stance he has taken, when his skin colour places him in a position to better empathise with people who have sweeping generalisations made about them based solely on appearance, surely John should understand that to make the statements he made about "the blacks in town" uses the same pseudo-logic used by racists. i.e. he should know better!
    Thank you very much

    both you and mobbdeep have actually grasp what i am saying.

    i may have appeared aggressive in my initial post but i have calmed down. at that time i was anger at john's submission to the common "stereotypical" views of other races.

    as young black males on this forum, i think it would be better if we represented a positive image of your section of our race. young, black males who are ambitious and are also educated.

    sorry for any aggressive or abusive statements i have made, but after watching that programme, i felt we had been put under a microscope and vast generalisation had been made about us.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    I'm going to make a fragile conjecture. Black people born today grow up in the same society that white kids and asian kids do, they goto the same schools and are taught by the same people, they see the same things on TV. White people are not so thickle that they will assume a black kid born today is automatically a rapist/mugger/thug from birth. To avoid discrimination, a black kid merely has to demonstrate that they know they belong in this society as much as a white kid, and that they don't expect to be held back. To suggest that they themselves are different, or limited by society is to limit themselves.
    My white friends can mess about to their heart's content, achieving mediocre exam results, fathering children and 'experimenting' in their youth. And yet, when these people finally mature - they can expect to gain decent jobs with regular promotions and live a comfortable lifestyle.

    I wouldn't want the above - but I most certainly can't have it.

    My life (as a black man in western society) is a struggle. I'd be a fool to suggest it wasn't.

    I just look forward to seeing the looks on the faces of the Oxbridge dons when I turn up at interview, and I grit my teeth, but raise my head up high.
 
 
 
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