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    (Original post by jndikum)
    Didn't I say I agreed too? Hey, I started this thread as I was willing to listen to other's opinions. Yes, some people's opinions have changed mind. Many people seem to be treating me as thought my original opinions are carved in stone.

    John
    i was not questioning your opinion, cos as human being our views are constantly changing. i was just stating my agreement with the "street" thuggery statement, i have not heard it before but it is the state of mind of some young black men.
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    And yet, when these people finally mature - they can expect to gain decent jobs with regular promotions and live a comfortable lifestyle.
    I don't think this is true anymore. Society is simply not that fickle.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    I don't think this is true anymore. Society is simply not that fickle.
    This is the same society which has witnessed my best friend from primary school end up completely on the underbelly of society - with little hope for the future.

    Having said this, I demand that people take responsibility for their own actions (which my friend didn't), but I'm all too aware of the pitfalls that await black males (as distinct from others).
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    This is the same society which has witnessed my best friend from primary school end up completely on the underbelly of society - with little hope for the future.

    Having said this, I demand that people take responsibility for their own actions (which my friend didn't), but I'm all too aware of the pitfalls that await black males.
    But I could recall similar anecdotes about my white and asian friends. My friend Natalie who has no GCSEs, is unemployed, and quite frankly likely to retire on minimum wage if she does find a crappy retail position which will kill off any remaining potential. Little hope for the future there. Or my friend Hamza, who got 877 in his SATs, discovered the wonders of dope and fathering children at 15, failed his GCSEs, got kicked out of college and now doesn't know how to get by in life without dealing.

    If you're from 'one of those areas', don't get the right upbringing then you get screwed over. Your only hope is, like you or me, to realise that you need some swift action and ambition to avoid becoming a no hoper. People who don't realise this before a critical age end up on a slippery slope to ****-life-street. It's not a race thing.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    But I could recall similar anecdotes about my white and asian friends. My friend Natalie who has no GCSEs, is unemployed, and quite frankly likely to retire on minimum wage if she does find a crappy retail position which will kill off any remaining potential. Little hope for the future there. Or my friend Hamza, who got 877 in his SATs, discovered the wonders of dope and fathering children at 15, failed his GCSEs, got kicked out of college and now doesn't know how to get by in life without dealing.

    If you're from 'one of those areas', don't get the right upbringing then you get screwed over. Your only hope is, like you or me, to realise that you need some swift action and ambition to avoid becoming a no hoper. People who don't realise this before a critical age end up on a slippery slope to ****-life-street. It's not a race thing.
    Agreed, hardships (whether personally inflicted or not) are not confined to a particular race. Although I view western society as particularly hostile towards me, and given the opportunity, it would be all too happy to swallow me up whole. I'm fully aware of this though, and by the same token, I'm not going to let this happen.
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    My white friends can mess about to their heart's content, achieving mediocre exam results, fathering children and 'experimenting' in their youth. And yet, when these people finally mature - they can expect to gain decent jobs with regular promotions and live a comfortable lifestyle.
    I agree, this reminds me of a quote i once heard.... If a white artist paints an oil painting it is described as art, but if a black artist paints the same painting it is known as 'Ethnic' . :confused:

    What some people on this forum do not realise is that black people have to work twice as hard as white people, be twice as fast and twice as intelligent in order to achieve their goals, why?, because from the start ignorant prats assume their inferiority due to the incredulous stereotypes the public are bombarded with through various sources. The truth is there are bad apples in every orchard.
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    Agreed, hardships (whether personally inflicted or not) are not confined to a particular race. Although I view western society as particularly hostile towards me, and given the opportunity, it would be all too happy to swallow me up whole. I'm fully aware of this though, and by the same token, I'm not going to let this happen.
    This is going to sound really cheesy, and probably upset you, but western society is waiting to embrace you for your intelligence and value as a person, not specifically as a black person, you should take advantage of the abundant opportunities that you get as a person living in a liberal, free society.
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    (Original post by Dajo123)
    I agree, this reminds me of a quote i once heard.... If a white artist paints an oil painting it is described as art, but if a black artist paints the same painting it is known as 'Ethnic' . :confused:

    What some people on this forum do not realise is that black people have to work twice as hard as white people, be twice as fast and twice as intelligent in order to achieve their goals, why?, because from the start ignorant prats assume their inferiority due to the incredulous stereotypes the public are bombarded with through various sources. The truth is there are bad apples in every orchard.
    I understand what you are saying. There has to be an appreciation amongst black people that the society is against them (and they must work hard to overcome obstacles), this must not cap their achievement or ambition, but it must make them aware of what they need to do.

    I don't know how many of you watched Black Ambition - the programme about a group of black students at Cambridge. However, the account of the female, black lawyer (who gained a 2:2) and failed to get a job in law (she instead ended up as a dogsbody in a pressroom) does not surprise me.

    Mediocrity is not good enough for anybody, lest not a black person.
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    I just look forward to seeing the looks on the faces of the Oxbridge dons when I turn up at interview, and I grit my teeth, but raise my head up high.
    Are you suggesting an Oxbridge Don would have any interest in what race you are? I imagine most of them have seen blacks before... except at Oriel.
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    I understand what you are saying. There has to be an appreciation amongst black people that the society is geared towards them, this must not cap their achievement or ambition, but it must make them aware of what they need to do.

    I don't know how many of you watched Black Ambition - the programme about a group of black students at Cambridge. However, the account of the female, black lawyer (who gained a 2:2) and failed to get a job in law (she instead ended up as a dogsbody in a pressroom) does not surprise me.

    Mediocrity is not good enough for anybody, lest not a black person.
    How do you know it was the colour of her skin that stopped her getting a job in law? Maybe it was the fact she got a 2:2, or her general attitude. Surely you need a 2:1 or above to go into such a competitive profession.

    I do not accept that black people are judged straight off, again society isn't this fickle. If a white guy acted like a gansta, he too would get passed off for a waste of time.
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    (Original post by BazTheMoney)
    Are you suggesting an Oxbridge Don would have any interest in what race you are? I imagine most of them have seen blacks before... except at Oriel.
    They may try to implement non-discriminatory policies, but the fact is that Oxbridge is quintessentially white. As evidenced by the number of applications by black students (hardly any) and the success rate of them (amongst the lowest of any ethnicity).

    How many Afro-Caribbean males are on your course?
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    They may try to implement non-discriminatory policies, but the fact is that Oxbridge is quintessentially white. As evidenced by the number of applications by black students (hardly any) and the success rate of them (amongst the lowest of any ethnicity).

    How many Afro-Caribbean males are on your course?
    White/asian surely? Also, they don't control the number of applications. And if the success rate is lower then I doubt this would be because they're subconsciously or consciously racist. In my experience, oxbridge interviews do not care about anything other whatsoever than ability.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    I do not accept that black people are judged straight off, again society isn't this fickle. If a white guy acted like a gansta, he too would get passed off for a waste of time.
    I am sorry, but society is very fickle indeed.

    There was a recent study which concluded job applications from people with "ethnic" sounding names are less likely to be called for interview than people with "white" sounding names, cant remember the name but you can google for it, it may interest you.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    How do you know it was the colour of her skin that stopped her getting a job in law? Maybe it was the fact she got a 2:2, or her general attitude. Surely you need a 2:1 or above to go into such a competitive profession.
    I did stress the point that mediocrity is good enough for nobody. But for a black female, whether she attended Oxbridge or not, a 2:2 law degree is simply not good enough. I would like to see what others who gained a 2:2 were doing at the time time though, as I sincerely doubt whether too many of them were office junioring.


    (Original post by fishpaste)
    I do not accept that black people are judged straight off, again society isn't this fickle. If a white guy acted like a gansta, he too would get passed off for a waste of time.
    Whoever said that anybody neeeded to 'act like a gangsta' to demand this response from society?
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    I did stress the point that mediocrity is good enough for nobody. But for a black female, whether she attended Oxbridge or not, a 2:2 law degree is simply not good enough. I would like see what others who gained a 2:2 were doing at the time time though, as I sincerely doubt whether too many of them were office junioring.
    What about the girl who started the LPC without a training contract, i thought she was on course for a 2:1? She had tons of rejections and 2 interviews, but i never found out what class degree she got........
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    I did stress the point that mediocrity is good enough for nobody. But for a black female, whether she attended Oxbridge or not, a 2:2 law degree is simply not good enough. I would like see what others who gained a 2:2 were doing at the time time though, as I sincerely doubt whether too many of them were office junioring.
    That's speculation. Oxbridge is no magic ticket. I think it's entirely feasible that somebody who failed to get a 2:1 or above may have to do junior work for a bit instead of being welcomed into a top law firm on a red carpet.

    Whoever said that anybody neeeded to 'act like a gangsta' to demand this response from society?
    Me!
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    That's speculation. Oxbridge is no magic ticket. I think it's entirely feasible that somebody who failed to get a 2:1 or above may have to do junior work for a bit instead of being welcomed into a top law firm on a red carpet.


    Me!
    YOU ARE ANNOYINGLY NAIVE
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    That's speculation. Oxbridge is no magic ticket. I think it's entirely feasible that somebody who failed to get a 2:1 or above may have to do junior work for a bit instead of being welcomed into a top law firm on a red carpet.
    This woman had to pack up any notions that she had about law altogether, as it was blatantly obvious that she was going nowhere. This wasn't office junior work 'with a view to getting back on the rails' (as far as law was concerned) - this is her future.
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    (Original post by legalhustle1984)
    YOU ARE ANNOYINGLY NAIVE
    Why? Law is shockingly competitive. The impression I get from reading these forums is that "Getting below a 2:1 is alot like having a criminal record when it comes to employability."
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    This woman had to pack up any notions that she had about law altogether, as it was blatantly obvious that she was going nowhere. This wasn't office junior work 'with a view to getting back on the rails' (as far as law was concerned) - this is her future.
    It's still entirely reasonable that it wasn't the colour of her skin that got her into that mess.

    I'll add something new to the debate here too, black females will only suffer a fraction of the discrimination of black males in society, because the stereotype of the black male is aggressive and this is what leads to discrimination. The same thing doesn't happen for black females, the stereotype doesn't include black females knifing you in an alley.
 
 
 
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