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    Why is it thar 50% of blacks live in council flat with one parent? Although I think this figure is absolute *******s.

    (Original post by kay0)
    Imagine yourself with just one parent (mummy) living in a council flat, because as sad as it is, that is the reality for almost 50% of black youth. Then ask yourself again why they are not progressing.
    If I lived in a run-down council estate living with only one parent that would motivate me MORE to succeed in life, not reduce it.

    (Original post by trouttrout)
    Why is it thar 50% of blacks live in council flat with one parent? Although I think this figure is absolute *******s.
    Over 50% of black children grow up without the father.
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    (Original post by Biggles)
    If I lived in a run-down council estate living with only one parent that would motivate me MORE to succeed in life, not reduce it.
    if the school you go to is a pile of **** its rather hard tho

    (Original post by Incomplete)
    if the school you go to is a pile of **** its rather hard tho
    Irrelevent - I went to a bog-standard comprehensive (I didn't want to commute to the private school in next town) and I taught myself.

    I'm so sick and tired of these excuses - when will black people stop blaming others and making up excuses and start taking power over their own lives.
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    (Original post by kay0)
    Ok, let me explain briefly what I meant. I detected a lot of underlying issues with the original post. To me it seems that John has a few issues.

    I can't be bothered to go into detail and highlight all the problems with that post, but i'l say this.

    From what i read, it seems to me that John is asking the people on this forum to express there views on why 'blacks aren't catching up'. As an African black you should KNOW. There is not much difference between you and those 50cent wannabes you see in the city centre. The only differences could possibly be you have wealthier parents, live with both parents..etc.

    I don't know why you feel you have to ask other people (mainly non-blacks on this board) why blacks (your people) are not catching up. Imagine yourself with just one parent (mummy) living in a council flat, because as sad as it is, that is the reality for almost 50% of black youth. Then ask yourself again why they are not progressing.
    I'd agree with quite a lot of this.

    I look at some of my black male counterparts from primary school - and where they are now, as compared to six years ago - and it's quite sad. A lot of this is due to changes in their home life and schooling.

    In addition, asians also go to those run-down inner city schools but still manage to do well in life.
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    (Original post by Biggles)
    Irrelevent - I went to a bog-standard comprehensive (I didn't want to commute to the private school in next town) and I taught myself.

    I'm so sick and tired of these excuses - when will black people stop blaming others and making up excuses and start taking power over their own lives.
    But it does play a part to a large extent. I go to an all boys grammar school, I'm one of only a handful of blacks in the school - the people I mix with are aspirational.

    My best friend at primary school was in the same ability group as me, he attended the local comprehensive school. This guy is anything but stupid, and yet he managed to get expelled from four schools, received a criminal conviction for the possession and supply of crack cocaine and now does a Modern Apprenticeship six days of the week.

    I'm absolutely positive that had I have gone to the local comp with my best friend - I would have turned out a different person, and mixed with a group of non-aspirational deadbeats.


    EDIT: He is black too by the way.
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    Does play a big part what school you go to. Obviously if you go to a upper class school, all people there want a good education, if you go to dump of a school, there will be trouble makers that just want to prat about!

    But I went to lame school and am now at uni.



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    It all depends on your social background... anyone who says otherwise is talking great big *******s...

    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    But it does play a part to a large extent. I go to an all boys grammar school, I'm one of only a handful of blacks in the school - the people I mix with are aspirational.

    My best friend at primary school was in the same ability group as me, he attended the local comprehensive school. This guy is anything but stupid, and yet he managed to get expelled from four schools, received a criminal conviction for the possession and supply of crack cocaine and now does a Modern Apprenticeship six days of the week.

    EDIT: He was black too by the way.
    I'm absolutely positive that had I have gone to the local comp with my best friend - I would have turned out a different person, and mixed with a group of non-aspirational deadbeats.
    Sure, I can see that - I think the biggest danger to black males is in their teens when many of them become captured by the sterotypes of "coolness" etc and the ethos of anti-learning. But I have no doubt that if someone is determined to do well at GCSEs, has an independent will, then they will do well regardless.

    However there are very few people like that in any race.
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    (Original post by trouttrout)
    Does play a big part what school you go to. Obviously if you go to a upper class school, all people there want a good education, if you go to dump of a school, there will be trouble makers that just want to prat about!

    But I went to lame school and am now at uni.
    I'm not taking the mick by the way - the black boys at my local comp aren't into learning at all. They're into thuggery, theft and drug dealing. This is not even that much of a generalisation - I know these people (and I would have gone there myself if hadn't passed the 11+).


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    (Original post by Biggles)
    If I lived in a run-down council estate living with only one parent that would motivate me MORE to succeed in life, not reduce it.
    Indeed. In reality it may be more difficult if you're spending evenings looking after your siblings whilst your (single) parent's doing nightshifts and you're at a run-down comprehensive school. But I do believe that for the majority the opportunity to improve one's socioeconomic status is there.

    Take myself - I went to north-east comprehensive schools; they weren't exactly bog-standard but some classes were pretty bad. Over half my class got a U in AS Maths, the majority didn't get a C in a several GCSEs, and there were a few awful teachers. This didn't stop me from working hard; in fact it gave me greater motivation to do well for myself, improve my prospects, raise my socioeconomic status and thus have a better quality of life.

    John says that at the same school where he got an A in GCSE Maths, his fellow black students were boasting about getting a G. So black students at his school, regardless of external circumstances, surely have the opportunity to gain at least Grade Cs if they put the work in. But maybe the motivation is missing due to something else, such as a lack of role model?
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    Irrelevent - I went to a bog-standard comprehensive (I didn't want to commute to the private school in next town) and I taught myself.

    I'm so sick and tired of these excuses - when will black people stop blaming others and making up excuses and start taking power over their own lives.

    Absolutely completely agree mate. Why is it that they think the country owes tehm something???!!!

    (Original post by Jools)
    Indeed. In reality it may be more difficult if you're spending evenings looking after your siblings whilst your (single) parent's doing nightshifts and at a run-down comprehensive school. But I do believe that for the majority the opportunity to improve one's socioeconomic status is there.

    Take myself - I went to north-east comprehensive schools; they weren't exactly bog-standard but some classes were pretty bad. Over half my class got a U in AS Maths, the majority didn't get a C in a several GCSEs, and there were a few awful teachers. This didn't stop me from working hard; in fact it gave me greater motivation to do well for myself, improve my prospects, raise my socioeconomic status and thus have a better quality of life.

    John says that at the same school where he got an A in GCSE Maths, his fellow black students were boasting about getting a G. So black students at his school, regardless of external circumstances, surely have the opportunity to gain at least Grade Cs if they put the work in. But maybe the motivation is missing due to something else, such as a lack of role model?
    I think role models is the issue for the black males. Black males are almost expected to be "cool" dudes who have no interest in education. They subconsciously identify with this cultural norm at the most critical period of their life. They then live out this type for the rest of their life, as do their estranged children.

    BTW - Well done on achieving the highest mark on the Gnostic test.
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    (Original post by Biggles)
    Sure, I can see that - I think the biggest danger to black males is in their teens when many of them become captured by the sterotypes of "coolness" etc and the ethos of anti-learning. But I have no doubt that if someone is determined to do well at GCSEs, has an independent will, then they will do well regardless.

    However there are very few people like that in any race.
    Yes I would agree with this too and looking at the few blacks who go to my school - several of them are all too happy to kick back and play the clown.

    For somebody to be truly determined (when economics and society are stacked against them) is admirable, and may I add, very rare too (as you have pointed out). Having said that though, I'm sure that if I had a little less self-discipline, and a little less ambition - a lot of the teachers and boys at my school would be happy to see me fall by the wayside.

    Anyway, I take your point from the previous post. This thread is a bit of a sob story, the onus is on the individual. I have the necessary tools to do well, so quite frankly I don't give a **** about stereotypes, nor the black people on the top of the number 11 bus who would happily steal a non-black's mobile phone on a whim (and yet bypass me, out of some sort of mutual 'understanding' based on race).

    I haven't really got time to worry about why other blacks are failing. Because:

    a) They have nothing to do with my experience
    b) I know why they are failing, all too well

    Sounds harsh, but that's how I feel.

    Btw - My former best mate regularly tries to contact me. I don't want to know. Do you blame me?
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    I heard someone say that you see lots of Pakistani/Asian's saying they go about ruling the place, and a few agreed. When I point out that these people are a minority, Jools tell's me that the show was meant to highlight the minority, but it seems a lot of people think this is the view of a majority. The show should have shown the otherside of the coin, just to be fair.

    On the issue of blacks not catching up to other races, I think prejudice has a lot to do with it. I have black friends who work hard, try their best and try to achieve but they constantly get thrown back by society. Black students from my school will be disciplined for events they're not involved with, but are picked out simply because the teacher assumes it's the one with the darkest face that started the trouble. When you're in a community that is in poverty, it's hard to get out of it.

    PS: Biggles is dumb as ****, he rather as well be wearing a KKK hat.
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    (Original post by Biggles)
    Irrelevent - I went to a bog-standard comprehensive (I didn't want to commute to the private school in next town) and I taught myself.

    I'm so sick and tired of these excuses - when will black people stop blaming others and making up excuses and start taking power over their own lives.

    Ok, you don't understand. Let me help you.

    When my parents first came to this country (late 70's) they had NOTHING. They were both educated, but they were finding it very hard to find jobs. I wonder why. This led my dad to become self-employed. As you probably all know, you can't start a business from nothing, so he had to look for a bank loan. As a 1st generation immigrant he had no family to lend him money. The most the bank would lend him was £50. My mum and dad eventually found work as a factory worker and security guard respectively. They each worked 16 hours a day. During this time, my dad experienced want many young black males at the time experienced (falsely accused of robbery, verbal/physical abuse on the street etc). After a while, they had enough money to start their business. They also had a kid on the way (no family to babysit kids for free). For a few years they struggled with looking after kids and running their business with literally no support. No government handouts etc.

    The end result was 4 privately educated children, 2 of them Bristol graduates, 1 Kings graduate (hopefully) and a walking corpse for a father ( to use my doctors words).

    To be successful and black in this country is hard, especially if you are 1st generation. You have to sacrifice your health for it in some cases. Is it worth it?

    You cannot compare the life of a black and white with equal ability in this country.
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    (Original post by Biggles)
    I think role models is the issue for the black males. Black males are almost expected to be "cool" dudes who have no interest in education. They subconsciously identify with this cultural norm at the most critical period of their life. They then live out this type for the rest of their life, as do their estranged children.
    So I think we've identified where the problem lies; not so much a lack of opportunities - as has been highlighted peers with the same (lack of) opportunities are generally more successful - but a lack of motivational figures. There's a gross under-representation of black academics, lawyers, politicians, accountants, doctors etc, whilst they are over-represented in football, athletics, the music industry, television/media etc - industries where achieving high grades is not usually necessary as there's an alternative route to success. Perhaps there should be a comprehensive project for successful black "professionals" to visit schools, to show that education can be the key to success.
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    (Original post by kay0)
    You cannot compare the life of a black and white with equal ability in this country.
    Maybe not, but unless they try and succeed and work hard they will just make the situation worse as they will bring up another generation of black people with the same attitudes.

    Life isn't fair, people have to understand this, but they also have to understand that neither life nor the world owes them anything. You have to work, and you have to work hard to get things in life if you do not have them to start with.
 
 
 
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