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    (Original post by Jools)
    But why has this happened? Asians and blacks came here with relatively similar backgrounds - little money, few qualifications etc. So why 40 years on are blacks discriminated against and Asians progressing?
    There's still a notional hierarchy in existence though: with whites at the top, 'lesser' whites beneath them (Italians, Spaniards, Greeks, Eastern Europeans etc.), Orientals beneath these, people of certain Asian extractions in the intermediate positions, people of other Asian extractions towards the bottom - and blacks at the bottom of the pile.

    This framework (determined by certain historical events in the modern world) shapes the way that people are viewed and (sadly, for some) how they in turn view themselves in society.
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    Is this situation the same in all western multicultural nations - the "If you're white you're alright, if you're brown stick around, if you're black get back" idea?
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    (Original post by Jools)
    Is this situation the same in all western multicultural nations - the "If you're white you're alright, if you're brown stick around, if you're black get back" idea?
    In Portugal, football fans boo the black players in their own side. Lazio fans make life hell for their black players - and as a result they have few, if any.

    I can remember a survey which was reported in the press a year or two ago, in which Belgian people came out in top in terms of having the most respondents who considered themselves racist.

    I've travelled around Europe - and in Barcelona, Amsterdam, Rome - few black faces are to be seen (other than in the shadier districts).

    America pupports to be the most accessible Western society in the world to people of colour, and yet these conditions have contrived to bring about vast pockets of black squalor. My aunt passed the LA Bar exam nearly a decade ago, and just couldn't practice there for all the discrimination - despite being a top-3 graduate of LSE. North America is patchy - I have relatives who live in thriving scenarios in Toronto, Atlanta, New York - but the experience is by no means flawless.

    White Australians oust the Aborigines (who have more right to be there than they do) from their land and marginalize them, and totally shut their borders to immigrants (even for temporary asylum in an emergency) - all whilst claiming to be liberal.
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    (Original post by kay0)
    Being born with nothing is no excuse, but add daily racial discrimination to that and it's a completely different story.
    Do you really get that much discrimination? The non-white people in my area hardly seem to get any. The racist jokes I hear are directed at the Irish and the French. I know almost NOBODY who I would consider racist. No, I don't live in some suburban crime-free haven (although, admittedly, I don't live in a one-bedroom council flat), just your average english town. I think racism is overrated, and as I said before, the only hassle my black friends seem to get is from other black people. But I guess that's just one person's experience, and I'm not trying to suggest I know anything about your situation.
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    p.s. why was this thread moved? It definitely belongs in d+d, not entertainment!
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    (Original post by Jools)
    western multicultural nations
    This term in itself is a lot rarer than perhaps you think. It almost suggests a proliferation and that the UK is de rigeur.

    The reality is very different.

    For all my reservations about UK society though, I can at least acknowledge that (in the western world) - the UK is one of the best environments for black achievement (bar not very many at all).
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    This term in itself is a lot rarer than perhaps you think. It almost suggests a proliferation and that the UK is de rigeur.

    The reality is very different.

    For all my reservations about UK society though, I can at least acknowledge that (in the western world) - the UK is one of the best environments for black achievement (bar not very many at all).
    Yeah that's what I was thinking as I wrote it. The only multicultural nations in the west are the UK and USA really. Based largely on my assumptions and watching too many American high-school sitcoms, I'd say the States is probably better than UK for providing an environment for black achievement.
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    (Original post by Jools)
    Yeah that's what I was thinking as I wrote it. The only multicultural nations in the west are the UK and USA really.
    That's not true! What about almost any other European country? France and Germany both take in far more immigrants than the UK every year. England is still 92% white.
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    (Original post by sarah101)
    Do you really get that much discrimination? The non-white people in my area hardly seem to get any. The racist jokes I hear are directed at the Irish and the French. I know almost NOBODY who I would consider racist. No, I don't live in some suburban crime-free haven (although, admittedly, I don't live in a one-bedroom council flat), just your average english town. I think racism is overrated, and as I said before, the only hassle my black friends seem to get is from other black people. But I guess that's just one person's experience, and I'm not trying to suggest I know anything about your situation.
    I'm not talking about verbal abuse on the street; that can be dealt with. I am talking more along the lines of institutional racism..the kind that really holds you back in life.

    Oh, also, being verbally abused on a regulaer basis can have psychological effects.
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    does anyone know whether this programme is going to be shown again? when and what channel?

    sounds very interesting
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    (Original post by Jools)
    Yeah that's what I was thinking as I wrote it. The only multicultural nations in the west are the UK and USA really. Based largely on my assumptions and watching too many American high-school sitcoms, I'd say the States is probably better than UK for providing an environment for black achievement.
    I think that a poor black person in the US has a lot more stacked against them than here in the UK.

    The lower quartile of the US education system is utterly, utterly, utterly, utterly dire compared to here. The US has several strictly, strictly no go areas - and I would struggle to name many, if any, in the UK. The US police may as well wear the colours of the Confederate flag in some districts, for all the damage that they do to black people.

    I would sooner be a poor black person in the UK than in the US, any day.

    You may argue that the US has a much greater population of thriving blacks - from business people, through to the likes of Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell. Blacks have permeated the higher ranks of American society, to a level simply not seen in the UK. To be honest - I think that a middle class black person from the UK, transposed to some areas in the US would achieve a lot more! I may migrate there myself one day.

    But that's not to say that the US way of life is Paradisian, by any means. A black person, starting off with very little in the US - has to work mighty, mighty, mighty hard to achieve something.
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    (Original post by sarah101)
    That's not true! What about almost any other European country? France and Germany both take in far more immigrants than the UK every year. England is still 92% white.
    Oh yeah, and France.
    Though there's not many black people in Germany? By multicultural I mean white, black, Asian, Oriental...
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    (Original post by Jools)
    Oh yeah, and France.
    Though there's not many black people in Germany? By multicultural I mean white, black, Asian, Oriental...
    You simply don't get that in Spain. The only Asians I saw were Oriental tourists and the people who served me in a Port Vell Tandoori. I just did not see many people from the subcontinent at all. Much the same went for Rome - most the Asians that I saw were Oriental tourists, or people trying to sell cheap tack in the street.
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    I think that a poor black person in the US has a lot more stacked against them than here in the UK. <snip> But that's not to say that the US way of life is Paradisian, by any means. A black person, starting off with very little in the US - has to work mighty, mighty, mighty hard to achieve something.
    It seems more bi-polar... When I said that I was thinking of the significant proportion of successful blacks in America - at Ivy League universities, at the top law courts, at the top management posts... though as you say for those struggling it's more difficult. Whereas in the UK I'd confidently say that 90% of blacks have the potential to improve their socio-economic level.
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    (Original post by Jools)
    Oh yeah, and France.
    Though there's not many black people in Germany? By multicultural I mean white, black, Asian, Oriental...
    I can't remember too many black players playing for the German national side at football, or anything come to think of it.
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    (Original post by kay0)
    I'm not talking about verbal abuse on the street; that can be dealt with. I am talking more along the lines of institutional racism..the kind that really holds you back in life.
    Can you be more specific? I'm not being rude, guess I'm just ignorant, but I don't understand what you mean.

    Oh, also, being verbally abused on a regulaer basis can have psychological effects.
    I'm sure it does. But my friends are abused by people of their own race, can that actually count as racism?
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    (Original post by Jools)
    It seems more bi-polar... When I said that I was thinking of the significant proportion of successful blacks in America - at Ivy League universities, at the top law courts, at the top management posts... though as you say for those struggling it's more difficult. Whereas in the UK I'd confidently say that 90% of blacks have the potential to improve their socio-economic level.
    Agreed. I would say that in the UK - very few people (of any colour) are in truly dire straits. If anything, the emergent underclass in the UK is probably refugees from Southern and Eastern Europe (contrary to what people may say about them receiving 'copious' benefits, a car, a house, a chalet in the Alps, a private jet et cetera).

    I honestly don't think that there are many people in the UK with next to no chance. The same couldn't be said for America.
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    (Original post by Jools)
    Oh yeah, and France.
    Though there's not many black people in Germany? By multicultural I mean white, black, Asian, Oriental...
    Germany takes the most immigrants of all european nations! Berlin has the biggest turkish population of any city after Istanbul.
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    (Original post by Jools)
    It seems more bi-polar... When I said that I was thinking of the significant proportion of successful blacks in America - at Ivy League universities, at the top law courts, at the top management posts... though as you say for those struggling it's more difficult. Whereas in the UK I'd confidently say that 90% of blacks have the potential to improve their socio-economic level.
    This is still a society which has sought to introduce quotas throughout education and employment though. And the experience of certain blacks in parts of America is not to dissimilar from blacks in apartheid-stricken District 6.
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    (Original post by sarah101)
    That's not true! What about almost any other European country? France and Germany both take in far more immigrants than the UK every year. England is still 92% white.
    I assume you don't think that all white people in Britain (not England!) are if the same cultural background? For a start, a lot of the new immigrants are white.
 
 
 
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