Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Because her body shaming lyrics and sampling of an objectifying song means she cannot be an feminist icon, the debate ends there.
    Well I've said why I believe that she can be seen as a feminist icon, and you really know nothing about her aside from one song.




    You can't argue a musician is popular if they have no chart performance. None of the female rappers you've named are mainstream, she hasn't opened any doors for anyone.
    Young Ma has had chart performance. She's earned her first top 10 on hot R&B/Hip hop songs chart. She was the first female rapper to reach the top 10 on the charts in 2016, and several successful artists remixed her song including Nicki minaj, meek mill, the game and 50 cent.

    Dej loafs 'try me' also debuted on hot R&B/Hip hop songs chart. It debuted as Number 2 on the weekly billboard and Twitter emerging artists chart. That song then went to number 1 and her follow up song 'birds call' went to number 2, so she held the top two positions on the emerging artists chart.
    She did open doors. Dej loaf was a supporting act on her Pinkprint tour, and used it to promote her mixtape. I doubt that mixtape would've been so successful had she not used Nicki minaj's tour to help promote it.

    She has promotion simply by association. She used to regularly feature in Drake's songs. Mainstream musicians in the modern day are usually a result of marketing and her career has certainly benefitted enormously from Lil Wayne and Drake.
    Okay, so name these alleged Drake songs that she featured in prior to becoming mainstream? Drakes career benefitted enormously from Lil Wayne too, in case you are forgetting.



    That's Yeezy brand, its not a clothing line. Nicki Minaj's clothing line was essentially Kmart clothes with her name on it. I find it hard to imagine Rihanna jeans were £85, got a source for the prices?
    Is Yeezy brand not Kanye Wests clothing line?
    Care to link inexpensive items from his clothing line?

    My source is that I went to river island and saw her jeans on sale for £85.

    & yes but she purposely chose Kmart so that it would be affordable.


    That's irrelevant, you said she used models of all shapes and sizes yet I can't seem to see any plus sized or skinny models. The photo you linked below are from youtube if you read the url address meaning the clothes were reviewed by a Youtuber, that's not official modelling.
    What difference does it make?! You're so pedantic.
    Either way, she spoke explicitly about ensuring her clothes have plus sizes, so that none of her fans feel left out. That looked like a happy customer to me. She didn't feel self conscious about wearing it, which is what Nicki minaj wanted.
    We both know that she has tried to uplift bigger women, even if it wasn't executed in the best way.


    Link for selling out and awards? As someone else pointed out JLo was involved in Hip Hop and had a fragrance way before. Nicki Minaj also benefitted from becoming popular in an era where every celebrity brings out perfumes, even car brands make perfume nowadays.
    JLo is not a female rapper?
    You can give as many excuses as you want for her success, bottom line is that she was the first female rapper to do a lot of things.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Friday_(fragrance)

    As I said she has no competition (which she would have if she'd opened the door for all the female rappers as you claimed). Winning consecutively is not impressive, just as me winning races against five year olds would not be impressive.
    I said she opened doors for rappers after her.
    Most of the women she was up against were around before her, so they should really be fair competition, that's their fault if they were unable to set the bar high.
    Winning consecutively is impressive and I already explained to you why your analogy of these 5 year olds is flawed. The women she was up against aren't any less capable than her whereas a 5yr old is less capable than you are.


    She's 'competing' against people who aren't anywhere near as popular, whoever's fault it is is irrelevant. I'm not denying she's popular but being a successful female does not make you a feminist icon.
    That's not her fault that the women she was up against aren't as popular. She put in the work, so she deserved to win, that's simple. Would you rather she be given the awards without competing against anyone? No, because then everyone would say that's unfair. She won fair and square, 7 times in a row. Impressive.


    Not sure if you've noticed but the title of this category is 'DEBATE and current affairs'.
    But you don't know anything about her aside from that one song? It's as if you like to argue for the sake of it. If I barely knew an artist, I wouldn't be going on about how terrible they are. I'm beginning to think you don't know much about female rappers in general.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Well I've said why I believe that she can be seen as a feminist icon, and you really know nothing about her aside from one song.
    I know nothing about Ian Brady outside of a few murders but I know enough to say he wouldn't make a great babysitter. By making an objectifying and body shaming song she ruled herself out of being a feminist icon in the same way that, with one comment, Donald Trump has done the same.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Young Ma has had chart performance. She's earned her first top 10 on hot R&B/Hip hop songs chart. She was the first female rapper to reach the top 10 on the charts in 2016, and several successful artists remixed her song including Nicki minaj, meek mill, the game and 50 cent.

    Dej loafs 'try me' also debuted on hot R&B/Hip hop songs chart. It debuted as Number 2 on the weekly billboard and Twitter emerging artists chart. That song then went to number 1 and her follow up song 'birds call' went to number 2, so she held the top two positions on the emerging artists chart.
    She did open doors. Dej loaf was a supporting act on her Pinkprint tour, and used it to promote her mixtape. I doubt that mixtape would've been so successful had she not used Nicki minaj's tour to help promote it.
    This is not mainstream success, mainstream artists regularly chart high up on the official charts not silly niche charts.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Okay, so name these alleged Drake songs that she featured in prior to becoming mainstream? Drakes career benefitted enormously from Lil Wayne too, in case you are forgetting.
    I didn't say these songs came before she was mainstream but they certainly helped her popularity. Yes his career did but in musical terms he's now above Lil Wayne.


    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Is Yeezy brand not Kanye Wests clothing line?
    Care to link inexpensive items from his clothing line?
    It's a brand not a clothing line. His 'clothing line' is with Adidas, the shoes cost $150 which for limited edition trainers is standard.

    The clothing Nicki Minaj did is the same crap quality stuff KMart sell normally just with her name on it, Yeezy is a completely independent fashion house.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    My source is that I went to river island and saw her jeans on sale for £85.
    Good source, the fact that that's three times River Island's standard tells me you're probably lying.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    & yes but she purposely chose Kmart so that it would be affordable.
    I don't see why this makes her a feminist icon...

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    What difference does it make?! You're so pedantic.
    Either way, she spoke explicitly about ensuring her clothes have plus sizes, so that none of her fans feel left out. That looked like a happy customer to me. She didn't feel self conscious about wearing it, which is what Nicki minaj wanted.
    We both know that she has tried to uplift bigger women, even if it wasn't executed in the best way.
    You explicitly said she used models of all shapes and sizes, that is very different to making clothes in plus sizes. Every high street shop sells bigger sizes but they always use slim models so had Nicki Minaj insisted on different shaped models you'd have an argument for her doing something for body acceptance, but instead she's just doing what everyone else does. That's what difference it makes.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    JLo is not a female rapper?
    You can give as many excuses as you want for her success, bottom line is that she was the first female rapper to do a lot of things.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Friday_(fragrance)
    But she was involved in the same sort of 'scene' and as I said when she did it it wasn't something everyone did unlike now.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    I said she opened doors for rappers after her.
    Most of the women she was up against were around before her, so they should really be fair competition, that's their fault if they were unable to set the bar high.
    Winning consecutively is impressive and I already explained to you why your analogy of these 5 year olds is flawed. The women she was up against aren't any less capable than her whereas a 5yr old is less capable than you are.

    That's not her fault that the women she was up against aren't as popular. She put in the work, so she deserved to win, that's simple. Would you rather she be given the awards without competing against anyone? No, because then everyone would say that's unfair. She won fair and square, 7 times in a row. Impressive.
    She has no competition, who's fault that is is irrelevant. Winning a crappy award seven times in a row in a one horse race isn't impressive, when she wins a Grammy I'll be impressed.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    But you don't know anything about her aside from that one song? It's as if you like to argue for the sake of it. If I barely knew an artist, I wouldn't be going on about how terrible they are. I'm beginning to think you don't know much about female rappers in general.
    I don't need to know anything more, please see above. Where have I called her terrible? Even if I thought she was the greatest musician alive I would still have to accept that being a successful woman doesn't make you a feminist icon. To call someone a feminist icon means you're putting them in the same group as Emmeline Pankhurst, Emily Davison and Margaret Sanger.

    I don't know much about female rappers but I don't think you know much either considering you though Nicki Minaj was the first female rapper to come from an under privileged background.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Spiderman)
    Am I missing something?
    You aren't missing anything, but they are missing brain cells.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tamil fever)
    u joined in 2006?!
    i was only 4 at the time....
    I'm almost a decade older than you lol.

    Why are TSRians so young nowadays, I feel so old...
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I know nothing about Ian Brady outside of a few murders but I know enough to say he wouldn't make a great babysitter. By making an objectifying and body shaming song she ruled herself out of being a feminist icon in the same way that, with one comment, Donald Trump has done the same.
    Your comparisons are so off, and you just keep repeating the same thing because you have nothing else to say about her, because you know nothing else about her. For the last time, I have agreed that she was hypocritical in her approach, but she meant well. How can a murderer mean well?
    Let's not forget that she wasn't wrong about big women being body shamed because her video sparked public outrage, not because of alleged hypocrisy but because she was wearing a bikini..



    This is not mainstream success, mainstream artists regularly chart high up on the official charts not silly niche charts.
    You said they've had no chart performance, and you were wrong.
    You also said that they aren't popular, well Having several mainstream artists remix your song definitely means that you're popular. Young Ma song featured on Canada hot 100 and US Billboard top 100 charts. That is clear evidence of chart performance.
    In terms of mainstream success, her video has been viewed over 100 million times on YouTube, which is more than some current mainstream artists. It also featured on Rolling Stones top 50 best songs of 2016.
    Den loafs song was certified gold in April 2015 in the US.
    If you think that this isn't evidence of popularity and mainstream success then I don't know what to tell ya.

    I didn't say these songs came before she was mainstream but they certainly helped her popularity. Yes his career did but in musical terms he's now above Lil Wayne.
    I'm still waiting for you to list these songs? Drake has also featured on some of her songs so I suppose she helped his career too?

    Lil Wayne said that he wants them both to do better than him.




    It's a brand not a clothing line. His 'clothing line' is with Adidas, the shoes cost $150 which for limited edition trainers is standard.
    How much are the clothes from his line?

    The clothing Nicki Minaj did is the same crap quality stuff KMart sell normally just with her name on it, Yeezy is a completely independent fashion house.
    I don't know why it's so for you to understand that she purposely chose Kmart. Kanye west could've chose to branch out with a store like Kmart so that his clothes were more affordable too, but he decided not too.
    Nicki minaj could've came out with a clothing line with a huge brand too, but she decided not to.



    Good source, the fact that that's three times River Island's standard tells me you're probably lying.
    River island jeans are usually around £40. Did you ever go to river island and look at Rihanna's collection? No so yet again, you don't know what you're talking about.


    I don't see why this makes her a feminist icon...
    I didn't say that this is what makes her a feminist icon, I said that her clothes were affordable unlike many other celebrity clothing lines.



    You explicitly said she used models of all shapes and sizes, that is very different to making clothes in plus sizes. Every high street shop sells bigger sizes but they always use slim models so had Nicki Minaj insisted on different shaped models you'd have an argument for her doing something for body acceptance, but instead she's just doing what everyone else does. That's what difference it makes.
    she said she handpicked thicker women for her anaconda video, and she did an interview explaining the important of plus sized women. You haven't seen the video, you haven't seen the interview, so you don't know what you're on about.


    But she was involved in the same sort of 'scene' and as I said when she did it it wasn't something everyone did unlike now.
    Nicki minaj was the first female rapper to have a successful perfume line. What is your issue? Jlo isn't a rapper!



    She has no competition, who's fault that is is irrelevant. Winning a crappy award seven times in a row in a one horse race isn't impressive, when she wins a Grammy I'll be impressed.
    If it's so crappy, why has nobody surpassed her? Please explain that. It must not be easy if she was the first and only one to do it.
    It's not a one horse race if she had competition! Many of her competitors had been around way before her so they should've had more experience really. That's like you winning employer of the year 7 times in a row, with many of the other employers having worked in the company for much longer than you, but still they failed to beat you. You all had equal opportunity of winning, in fact they arguably had more opportunity than you because they were more experience, yet they still lost to you, 7 times. Wouldn't you be proud of that? Should you be made to feel bad because your fellow employers didn't perform as well as you did?
    Na, you wouldn't be impressed if she won a Grammy, you would say she won because she had no competition.


    I don't need to know anything more, please see above. Where have I called her terrible? Even if I thought she was the greatest musician alive I would still have to accept that being a successful woman doesn't make you a feminist icon. To call someone a feminist icon means you're putting them in the same group as Emmeline Pankhurst, Emily Davison and Margaret Sanger.
    So you agree that she is successful. Because you seem to think that winning awards consecutively is easy. Being consistent for 7 years is easy. Holding the throne for women in a male dominated field is easy. Being the first to feature on the Forbes kings cash list doesn't require hard work, does it?
    i have said that she has spoken very explicitly about the importance of women's independence. She has even referenced it in many songs e.g 'I'm fighting for the girls who never thought they could win. Before they could begin, you told them it was the end but I am here to reverse the curse that they live in'

    I don't know much about female rappers but I don't think you know much either considering you though Nicki Minaj was the first female rapper to come from an under privileged background.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I know much more about them than you do, you just like to argue even when you don't know what you're on about.
    What I meant was that when you take everything into consideration, No female rapper has surpassed her many achievements, and despite what you think, that is something to be proud of.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 99_Problems)
    I'm almost a decade older than you lol.

    Why are TSRians so young nowadays, I feel so old...
    The Student Room, clue is in the name.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Your comparisons are so off, and you just keep repeating the same thing because you have nothing else to say about her, because you know nothing else about her. For the last time, I have agreed that she was hypocritical in her approach, but she meant well. How can a murderer mean well?
    Let's not forget that she wasn't wrong about big women being body shamed because her video sparked public outrage, not because of alleged hypocrisy but because she was wearing a bikini..
    I'm repeating myself because you don't understand what I'm saying, let me make it simple for you: when you make a song that body shames and objectifies women you rule yourself out from being a feminist icon.

    I've just watched the video and properly listened to the lyrics.
    1. You said in one post how she's preached the importance of independent women (paraphrasing) yet in the song she talks about how men buy her designer clothes and in the second verse she mentions how they essentially do this in exchange for sex ('He toss my salad like his name Romaine, And when we done, I make him buy me Balmain'). - so not only is the song body shaming and objectifying it's also saying to girls its fine to sleep with men in exchange for designer clothes - I bet Betty Friedan is smiling down on her
    2. Feminists also often preach about how women should be seen as more than a sexual object - Nicki Minaj is clearly sexually objectifying herself in that video by giving Drake a lap dance and spraying whipped cream on her breasts. So not only are the lyrics objectifying but the video is too, well done Nicki keep getting Youtube views from people who see you as nothing more than someone they'd want to have sex with.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    You said they've had no chart performance, and you were wrong.
    You also said that they aren't popular, well Having several mainstream artists remix your song definitely means that you're popular. Young Ma song featured on Canada hot 100 and US Billboard top 100 charts. That is clear evidence of chart performance.
    In terms of mainstream success, her video has been viewed over 100 million times on YouTube, which is more than some current mainstream artists. It also featured on Rolling Stones top 50 best songs of 2016.
    Den loafs song was certified gold in April 2015 in the US.
    If you think that this isn't evidence of popularity and mainstream success then I don't know what to tell ya.
    Congratulations, they've had chart performance in niche charts. When I say no chart performance I mean the Billboard 100 as that is the mainstream chart. One song in the top twenty among all of the people you named cannot be considered mainstream success. They may one day be mainstream but as of right now they aren't successful in the mainstream.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    I'm still waiting for you to list these songs? Drake has also featured on some of her songs so I suppose she helped his career too?
    You want me to list Drake songs that she features in? "Up All Night", "Make Me Proud", she also featured on other songs that Drake also features on. It's ridiculous that you're arguing Drake hasn't boosted her career; he is the most popular rapper in the world and he promotes her, that will inevitably have made her more popular.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Lil Wayne said that he wants them both to do better than him.
    Drake's the only one to do that so far.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    How much are the clothes from his line?
    I just told you: $150 for the shoes, there aren't clothes in the line. The clothes from the fashion house he owns are more expensive but that's different as I've already explained.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    I don't know why it's so for you to understand that she purposely chose Kmart. Kanye west could've chose to branch out with a store like Kmart so that his clothes were more affordable too, but he decided not too.
    Nicki minaj could've came out with a clothing line with a huge brand too, but she decided not to.
    Well I guess we'll never know if she could have done a more expensive line.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    River island jeans are usually around £40. Did you ever go to river island and look at Rihanna's collection? No so yet again, you don't know what you're talking about.
    'I saw unicorn last night, you weren't there so you can't say I didn't' - that's the argument you're making.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    I didn't say that this is what makes her a feminist icon, I said that her clothes were affordable unlike many other celebrity clothing lines.
    You still haven't actually shown any reason as to why she is a feminist icon. Some feminist icons throw themselves in front of horses, others launch clothing lines in budget department stores.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    she said she handpicked thicker women for her anaconda video, and she did an interview explaining the important of plus sized women. You haven't seen the video, you haven't seen the interview, so you don't know what you're on about.
    We're not talking about the Anaconda video, we're talking about the models used to promote her clothing line. You claimed she used women of all sizes which would be relatively unique, you're yet to substantiate that.

    As I said above I just watched the video, the dancers in the video are all of the body shape that I've described a million times. Hardly promoting diversity when none of the women in the video would be considered plus sized.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Nicki minaj was the first female rapper to have a successful perfume line. What is your issue? Jlo isn't a rapper!
    My issue is that you're trying to make this 1. an achievement 2. so niche simply to exclude other people of similar backgrounds who have done the same thing.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    If it's so crappy, why has nobody surpassed her? Please explain that. It must not be easy if she was the first and only one to do it.
    It's not a one horse race if she had competition! Many of her competitors had been around way before her so they should've had more experience really. That's like you winning employer of the year 7 times in a row, with many of the other employers having worked in the company for much longer than you, but still they failed to beat you. You all had equal opportunity of winning, in fact they arguably had more opportunity than you because they were more experience, yet they still lost to you, 7 times. Wouldn't you be proud of that? Should you be made to feel bad because your fellow employers didn't perform as well as you did?
    Na, you wouldn't be impressed if she won a Grammy, you would say she won because she had no competition.
    Just because the award is crap it doesn't mean it gets handed out to reward crap. The BET female rapper of the year (or whatever it's called) is not a prestigious award and as I've said she has no competition, what you seem to be failing to understand is that it is irrelevant why she has no competition. You also seem to have misunderstood what the term 'one horse race' means - it doesn't literally mean only one person was in the running, it means that one person is head and shoulders above the others. Experience doesn't always make people better at things and that is especially true in the entertainment business; Eddie Redmayne is a better actor than Stacy Keach, Lionel Messi is a better footballer than Dean Marney. If she won a Grammy I would be impressed, as I said.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    So you agree that she is successful. Because you seem to think that winning awards consecutively is easy. Being consistent for 7 years is easy. Holding the throne for women in a male dominated field is easy. Being the first to feature on the Forbes kings cash list doesn't require hard work, does it?
    i have said that she has spoken very explicitly about the importance of women's independence. She has even referenced it in many songs e.g 'I'm fighting for the girls who never thought they could win. Before they could begin, you told them it was the end but I am here to reverse the curse that they live in'
    I've never denied she's successful but not because she's won a meaningless award that she's had no competition in for seven years. The fact that it's a male dominated field only strengthens my point; she has no competition. Being on a Forbes rich list doesn't require any hard work at all just go and ask Jim, Alice, Lukas, Amy, Ann, Christy, Nancy or Samuel Walton. You could also go and ask Laurene Powell Jobs, Georg Schaeffler or Mukesh Ambani.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    I know much more about them than you do, you just like to argue even when you don't know what you're on about.
    What I meant was that when you take everything into consideration, No female rapper has surpassed her many achievements, and despite what you think, that is something to be proud of.
    Well so you claim yet you thought Nicki Minaj was the first female rapper to come from an under privileged background. Knowledge of female rappers really isn't relevant to this argument. The simple fact is she made a song which objectifies, body shames and teaches girls to sleep with men to get what they want that rules her out from being a feminist icon. Even without Anaconda, she has done nothing to further women and to call her an icon is an insult to the various names I've already mentioned.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I'm repeating myself because you don't understand what I'm saying, let me make it simple for you: when you make a song that body shames and objectifies women you rule yourself out from being a feminist icon.
    In your opinion.

    I've just watched the video and properly listened to the lyrics.
    1. You said in one post how she's preached the importance of independent women (paraphrasing) yet in the song she talks about how men buy her designer clothes and in the second verse she mentions how they essentially do this in exchange for sex ('He toss my salad like his name Romaine, And when we done, I make him buy me Balmain'. - so not only is the song body shaming and objectifying it's also saying to girls its fine to sleep with men in exchange for designer clothes - I bet Betty Friedan is smiling down on her
    2. Feminists also often preach about how women should be seen as more than a sexual object - Nicki Minaj is clearly sexually objectifying herself in that video by giving Drake a lap dance and spraying whipped cream on her breasts. So not only are the lyrics objectifying but the video is too, well done Nicki keep getting Youtube views from people who see you as nothing more than someone they'd want to have sex with.
    It's a song! Do you know how many artists rap about things that they don't actually do? Drake included.
    Nicki minaj also said in a song that she meets up with zombies, do you believe that?
    Nicki minaj was in a 12 year relationship, she didn't do any of those things she rapped about. It was for sheer entertainment, and a lot of rappers do it too.



    Congratulations, they've had chart performance in niche charts. When I say no chart performance I mean the Billboard 100 as that is the mainstream chart. One song in the top twenty among all of the people you named cannot be considered mainstream success. They may one day be mainstream but as of right now they aren't successful in the mainstream.
    i just explained how they have been successful in he mainstream: 100 Million views. mainstream artists remixing your song. Going gold in the US.



    You want me to list Drake songs that she features in? "Up All Night", "Make Me Proud", she also featured on other songs that Drake also features on. It's ridiculous that you're arguing Drake hasn't boosted her career; he is the most popular rapper in the world and he promotes her, that will inevitably have made her more popular.
    "Up all night" debuted number 59 on the US Billboard Hot R&B and hip hop songs. It wasn't a single, and didn't even have a music video, and If you have listened to her verse on that song, you'd know that she had already made a million from her mixtape. She had already achieved success prior to it, so that song was not responsible for her success.
    "Make me proud" came after Nicki minaj's debut album pink Friday, which had sold over 375K in its first week, therefore she was successful prior to that song also.

    Moment 4 life is a Nicki minaj song that features Drake. It went number 1 on the US hot R&B/ Hip hop songs billboard chart. It featured on the US mainstream top 40 (billboard chart), it went silver in the UK and was certified platinum in the US. It currently has 178M views on YouTube.
    Stop making it seem like it was one sided.

    He hasn't always been popular rapper, they came up together, they got popular together.




    Drake's the only one to do that so far.
    is that impressive to you? Because apparently being the best selling female rapper of all time isn't impressive.



    I just told you: $150 for the shoes, there aren't clothes in the line. The clothes from the fashion house he owns are more expensive but that's different as I've already explained.
    We're talking about clothes here, and the fact of the matter is that his clothes are not cheap.


    Well I guess we'll never know if she could have done a more expensive line.
    She chose Kmart. I don't know how many times I have to say that.

    'I saw unicorn last night, you weren't there so you can't say I didn't' - that's the argument you're making.q
    The argument I'm making is that I've been to river island when Rihanna's collection was out, and her clothes were expensive for teenage girls.



    You still haven't actually shown any reason as to why she is a feminist icon. Some feminist icons throw themselves in front of horses, others launch clothing lines in budget department stores.
    I have said why she is seen as a feminist icon. I have said that she preaches about the importance of women's independence in concert, in interviews and in her songs.

    For the last time, she purposely launched her clothing line in a budget store so that her fans could realistically afford the items


    We're not talking about the Anaconda video, we're talking about the models used to promote her clothing line. You claimed she used women of all sizes which would be relatively unique, you're yet to substantiate that.

    As I said above I just watched the video, the dancers in the video are all of the body shape that I've described a million times. Hardly promoting diversity when none of the women in the video would be considered plus sized.
    What do you think plus size is?



    My issue is that you're trying to make this 1. an achievement 2. so niche simply to exclude other people of similar backgrounds who have done the same thing.
    1. It is an achievement.
    2. No other female rapper has done it.

    end of.

    Just because the award is crap it doesn't mean it gets handed out to reward crap. The BET female rapper of the year (or whatever it's called) is not a prestigious award and as I've said she has no competition, what you seem to be failing to understand is that it is irrelevant why she has no competition. You also seem to have misunderstood what the term 'one horse race' means - it doesn't literally mean only one person was in the running, it means that one person is head and shoulders above the others. Experience doesn't always make people better at things and that is especially true in the entertainment business; Eddie Redmayne is a better actor than Stacy Keach, Lionel Messi is a better footballer than Dean Marney. If she won a Grammy I would be impressed, as I said.
    Being 'head and shoulders above the others' is an achievement in itself! Don't you see that?

    I've never denied she's successful but not because she's won a meaningless award that she's had no competition in for seven years. The fact that it's a male dominated field only strengthens my point; she has no competition. Being on a Forbes rich list doesn't require any hard work at all just go and ask Jim, Alice, Lukas, Amy, Ann, Christy, Nancy or Samuel Walton. You could also go and ask Laurene Powell Jobs, Georg Schaeffler or Mukesh Ambani.
    Lol, if being on the Forbes cash kings list doesn't require any hard work, why is she the only female artist to appear on it?
    She's had competition, but they were beneath her. That fact only reinforces just how powerful she must have been to remain on top for so long.



    Well so you claim yet you thought Nicki Minaj was the first female rapper to come from an under privileged background.
    No I didn't. I clarified what I meant yet you decided to ignore it.
    Knowledge of female rappers really isn't relevant to this argument.
    Knowledge of Nicki minaj is relevant to this argument and you have no knowledge on her aside from one song.
    The simple fact is she made a song which objectifies, body shames and teaches girls to sleep with men to get what they want that rules her out from being a feminist icon.
    Again, it's a song. I guarantee you that the most successful rappers you can think of have said they do things in their raps that they have never done in real life.

    Even without Anaconda, she has done nothing to further women and to call her an icon is an insult to the various names I've already mentioned.
    in your opinion
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Underscore__)
    My issue is that you're trying to make this 1. an achievement 2. so niche simply to exclude other people of similar backgrounds who have done the same thing.
    Exactly.

    There was already a rapper who did this (Puff Daddy/Sean John) and there was already a woman involved with Hip-Hop (J.Lo). If there was already a female rapper before Nicki who had did this, you just know that she would be saying 'yes but Nicki is the first female rapper from New York to do x'. If there was already a female rapper from New York it would be 'first female rapper from New York of Trinidadian descent whose initials are NM to do x'. And so on and so on.

    There are too many good business ventures in Hip-Hop for this to be considered anything special. Dr. Dre has single handedly made it acceptable for non audiophiles to spend hundreds of pounds on a pair of headphones, before Beats this just simply did not happen (whether you think this is a good thing or not is up to you, I think Beats are overpriced tat), £300 on headphones before Beats to the average person was crazy. He must have made more now from his headphones than he ever did with music and there are several rappers who have since tried to do the same (50 Cent and Ludacris are two of them). Now that is actually interesting, not being the first female rapper to release a fragrance.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    It's a song! Do you know how many artists rap about things that they don't actually do? Drake included. Nicki minaj also said in a song that she meets up with zombies, do you believe that? Nicki minaj was in a 12 year relationship, she didn't do any of those things she rapped about. It was for sheer entertainment, and a lot of rappers do it too.
    It's not about whether she's done those things, it's about the message it sends to people. Look at the messages that someone like Beyonce has been sending in her more recent songs, as cringe as they are they're essentially about female and black empowerment. She doesn't body shame, she doesn't objectify and she doesn't send the message that it's okay to rely on men to get what you want.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    i just explained how they have been successful in he mainstream: 100 Million views. mainstream artists remixing your song. Going gold in the US.
    Lol Youtube views, really? Charlie bit my finger has nearly a billion views. Friday by Rebecca Black has over 100m views no ones calling her a successful mainstream artist. Mainstream artists remixing your songs means nothing, rappers often sample and remix songs by absolute nobodies.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    "Up all night" debuted number 59 on the US Billboard Hot R&B and hip hop songs. It wasn't a single, and didn't even have a music video, and If you have listened to her verse on that song, you'd know that she had already made a million from her mixtape. She had already achieved success prior to it, so that song was not responsible for her success.
    Ten lines up you said that just because someone says something in a rap song it doesn't make it true but this time it is true? Be consistent.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    "Make me proud" came after Nicki minaj's debut album pink Friday, which had sold over 375K in its first week, therefore she was successful prior to that song also.
    I didn't say she wasn't successful, I've repeatedly said she is but Drake's publicity boosted her success.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Moment 4 life is a Nicki minaj song that features Drake. It went number 1 on the US hot R&B/ Hip hop songs billboard chart. It featured on the US mainstream top 40 (billboard chart), it went silver in the UK and was certified platinum in the US. It currently has 178M views on YouTube. Stop making it seem like it was one sided.
    Another thing you don't seem to understand is I'm talking about someone boosting the other's popularity. Drake is miles more popular meaning he would have done more to boost her popularity than she has done to boost his.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    He hasn't always been popular rapper, they came up together, they got popular together.
    Drake was a Grammy nominated artist and appeared in the top 10 (of the main Billboard chart) four times before Nicki Minaj had even released an album, they didn't become popular at the same time.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    is that impressive to you? Because apparently being the best selling female rapper of all time isn't impressive.
    No but the plethora of chart records he holds are impressive.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    We're talking about clothes here, and the fact of the matter is that his clothes are not cheap.
    Because he doesn't have a clothing line, he has a clothing brand which is a high fashion brand. The line of shoes he does are reasonably priced.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    She chose Kmart. I don't know how many times I have to say that.
    Where have I said she didn't choose them? I'm saying that seeing as she did choose them we'll never know if she could have done a line with a more premium brand.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    The argument I'm making is that I've been to river island when Rihanna's collection was out, and her clothes were expensive for teenage girls.
    The argument you're making is that you saw something hard to believe, have no way of proving it but I'm wrong because I wasn't there; great argument.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    I have said why she is seen as a feminist icon. I have said that she preaches about the importance of women's independence in concert, in interviews and in her songs.
    And in other songs teaches girls to rely on men, objectifies, body shames and references someone who was jailed for attacking a woman; what a great feminist icon she is.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    For the last time, she purposely launched her clothing line in a budget store so that her fans could realistically afford the items
    So because fans can buy clothes with your name on the label that makes you a feminist icon? Well look at the great feminist icons we have in the country; Charlotte Crosby and Binky from MIC.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    What do you think plus size is?
    Plus sized in the UK starts at size 18 I believe.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    1. It is an achievement. 2. No other female rapper has done it. end of.
    When doing something puts you in the same category as people like Alesha Dixon and Cher Lloyd it cannot be considered an achievement by any reasonable person. Of course, you're not arguing as a reasonable person rather a hurt and upset super fan.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Being 'head and shoulders above the others' is an achievement in itself! Don't you see that?
    Being head and shoulders above crap is not an achievement.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Lol, if being on the Forbes cash kings list doesn't require any hard work, why is she the only female artist to appear on it? She's had competition, but they were beneath her. That fact only reinforces just how powerful she must have been to remain on top for so long.
    If it takes hard work how did all the people I just mention manage to get on it whilst never having to work a single day in their lives? No I think it just shows a lack of competition.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    No I didn't. I clarified what I meant yet you decided to ignore it.
    I can quote what you said if you'd like but you definitely said she was the first female rapper to come up through difficult circumstances or words to that effect.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Knowledge of Nicki minaj is relevant to this argument and you have no knowledge on her aside from one song.
    I don't need knowledge of her, that song is enough. In the same way that one comment made by Donald Trump is enough to show that he's not a feminist icon.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    in your opinion
    So you think she deserves to be mentioned alongside the other feminists I've named? It's okay that you haven't heard of them, google will tell you all about them.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Underscore__)
    It's not about whether she's done those things, it's about the message it sends to people. Look at the messages that someone like Beyonce has been sending in her more recent songs, as cringe as they are they're essentially about female and black empowerment. She doesn't body shame, she doesn't objectify and she doesn't send the message that it's okay to rely on men to get what you want.



    Lol Youtube views, really? Charlie bit my finger has nearly a billion views. Friday by Rebecca Black has over 100m views no ones calling her a successful mainstream artist. Mainstream artists remixing your songs means nothing, rappers often sample and remix songs by absolute nobodies.



    Ten lines up you said that just because someone says something in a rap song it doesn't make it true but this time it is true? Be consistent.



    I didn't say she wasn't successful, I've repeatedly said she is but Drake's publicity boosted her success.



    Another thing you don't seem to understand is I'm talking about someone boosting the other's popularity. Drake is miles more popular meaning he would have done more to boost her popularity than she has done to boost his.



    Drake was a Grammy nominated artist and appeared in the top 10 (of the main Billboard chart) four times before Nicki Minaj had even released an album, they didn't become popular at the same time.



    No but the plethora of chart records he holds are impressive.



    Because he doesn't have a clothing line, he has a clothing brand which is a high fashion brand. The line of shoes he does are reasonably priced.



    Where have I said she didn't choose them? I'm saying that seeing as she did choose them we'll never know if she could have done a line with a more premium brand.



    The argument you're making is that you saw something hard to believe, have no way of proving it but I'm wrong because I wasn't there; great argument.



    And in other songs teaches girls to rely on men, objectifies, body shames and references someone who was jailed for attacking a woman; what a great feminist icon she is.



    So because fans can buy clothes with your name on the label that makes you a feminist icon? Well look at the great feminist icons we have in the country; Charlotte Crosby and Binky from MIC.



    Plus sized in the UK starts at size 18 I believe.



    When doing something puts you in the same category as people like Alesha Dixon and Cher Lloyd it cannot be considered an achievement by any reasonable person. Of course, you're not arguing as a reasonable person rather a hurt and upset super fan.



    Being head and shoulders above crap is not an achievement.



    If it takes hard work how did all the people I just mention manage to get on it whilst never having to work a single day in their lives? No I think it just shows a lack of competition.



    I can quote what you said if you'd like but you definitely said she was the first female rapper to come up through difficult circumstances or words to that effect.



    I don't need knowledge of her, that song is enough. In the same way that one comment made by Donald Trump is enough to show that he's not a feminist icon.



    So you think she deserves to be mentioned alongside the other feminists I've named? It's okay that you haven't heard of them, google will tell you all about them.
    Yeah I'm not doing the paragraph thing anymore, especially since I'd just be repeating myself.
    You think she's not a feminist icon, I think she is.
    The end.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    As long as women are ridiculed for being sexual, women like Nikki Minaj will remain feminist icons, beacons of resistance against women's sexual repression.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    Exactly.

    There was already a rapper who did this (Puff Daddy/Sean John) and there was already a woman involved with Hip-Hop (J.Lo). If there was already a female rapper before Nicki who had did this, you just know that she would be saying 'yes but Nicki is the first female rapper from New York to do x'. If there was already a female rapper from New York it would be 'first female rapper from New York of Trinidadian descent whose initials are NM to do x'. And so on and so on.
    if there was another female rapper to do it before her then fair enough. But there wasn't.

    There are too many good business ventures in Hip-Hop for this to be considered anything special. Dr. Dre has single handedly made it acceptable for non audiophiles to spend hundreds of pounds on a pair of headphones, before Beats this just simply did not happen (whether you think this is a good thing or not is up to you, I think Beats are overpriced tat), £300 on headphones before Beats to the average person was crazy. He must have made more now from his headphones than he ever did with music and there are several rappers who have since tried to do the same (50 Cent and Ludacris are two of them). Now that is actually interesting, not being the first female rapper to release a fragrance.
    But you asked me what she was the first to do, and that was one of them.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Uurrgghh now I have to bleach my eyes
    you didn't have to post the video
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Underscore__ Yoooo dats a lotta quotes
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    if there was another female rapper to do it before her then fair enough. But there wasn't.
    No but there were rappers and women from Hip-Hop who had already done it. You're jumping through hoops to make it a first for Nicki as was pointed out by someone else.

    But you asked me what she was the first to do, and that was one of them.
    Not much of a first is it.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    No but there were rappers and women from Hip-Hop who had already done it. You're jumping through hoops to make it a first for Nicki as was pointed out by someone else.



    Not much of a first is it.
    Not jumping through hoops. I stated what she was first to do. If you didn't want to know, then you shouldn't have asked
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Didn't read the above replies as they looked scary but I do not see her as a feminist. She almost welcomes the sexualisation and objectification of women which is frankly something I'd like to see gone. She's no Malala Yousafzai, who fought for the right to have an education, who has recently won the Nobel Peace Prize. She's no Mary Wollstonecraft, who wrote A Vindication of the Rights of Woman in 1792. Or Maya Angelou, the civil rights activist. I could continue the list...

    There are feminists and people who label themselves feminists whilst lacking the criteria that makes one active in the rights for women.

    If anything, some 'feminists' these days are causing women's rights to slide backwards at an alarming rate.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Yeah I'm not doing the paragraph thing anymore, especially since I'd just be repeating myself.
    You think she's not a feminist icon, I think she is.
    The end.
    I'm glad you've finally realised how nonsensical your argument is.

    (Original post by Abstract_Prism)
    As long as women are ridiculed for being sexual, women like Nikki Minaj will remain feminist icons, beacons of resistance against women's sexual repression.
    You think she's a feminist icon despite making a song which body shames other women, samples an objectifying song, talks about how it's okay to rely on men to get what you want and references a convicted woman beater? If so you have a very low threshold for icons.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I'm glad you've finally realised how nonsensical your argument is.



    You think she's a feminist icon despite making a song which body shames other women, samples an objectifying song, talks about how it's okay to rely on men to get what you want and references a convicted woman beater? If so you have a very low threshold for icons.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Now you want to start with someone else, with the same bs argument :laugh:
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What newspaper do you read/prefer?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.