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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    It was a simple question, and I didn't include the word feminist. You didn't seem to be impressed by her many achievements so I'm curious:

    In your view, is Nicki minaj an influential icon?
    Being influential is part of being an icon. In my view she isn't an icon but if you want to think she is an icon of female rap that's at least a defendable position.


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    She's a terrible musical artist, and as her music is what she is famous for, it hardly matters if she is a feminist icon or not. It's auxiliary. Women shouldn't aspire to be like her because no one should aspire to be such a lacklustre artist. If she was good artist, it wouldn't matter if her videos involved her bouncing up and down on a dildo, she would be an inspiration because her music would be something to be inspired by.
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    (Original post by לזייןהאיסלאם)
    She's a terrible musical artist.
    Agree. Even though I find the odd thing she's done to be fun to listen to.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Being influential is part of being an icon. In my view she isn't an icon but if you want to think she is an icon of female rap that's at least a defendable position.


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    You said Kanye is an icon because he's done some good things for rap. Nicki minaj has done good things for rap, so why isn't she an icon?
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    Hmmm~
    Icon for her admirers and followers most probably.
    Feminist to the extent that she belongs to this gender...??
    But personally I am not aware of any circumstance where she stood up for or advocated in favour of women or any form of agenda in favour of women.
    She is certainly not an icon as far as I am concerned.
    So for me she is not a feminist icon but perhaps because I fail to appreciate how twerking advocates in favour of women... ~
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    (Original post by The Joker ~)
    Hmmm~
    Icon for her admirers and followers most probably.
    Feminist to the extent that she belongs to this gender...??
    But personally I am not aware of any circumstance where she stood up for or advocated in favour of women or any form of agenda in favour of women.
    She is certainly not an icon as far as I am concerned.
    So for me she is not a feminist icon but perhaps because I fail to appreciate how twerking advocates in favour of women... ~
    She's advocated and stood up for women/young girls in her songs and interviews.
    Just yesterday, she was on Twitter talking about the wage gap between males and females and that women shouldn't feel afraid to ask for the same wage as their male counterparts
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    You said Kanye is an icon because he's done some good things for rap. Nicki minaj has done good things for rap, so why isn't she an icon?
    1. I said you can call her an icon of female rap
    2. What has she ever done for rap? Certainly nothing that compares to Kanye


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    Do feel free to read my earlier points about her anti feminist behaviour.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    She's advocated and stood up for women/young girls in her songs and interviews.
    Just yesterday, she was on Twitter talking about the wage gap between males and females and that women shouldn't feel afraid to ask for the same wage as their male counterparts
    How funny, she's uneducated as well as inconsistent


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    1. I said you can call her an icon of female rap
    2. What has she ever done for rap? Certainly nothing that compares to Kanye


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    But you're being a hypcorite. You said that somebody is an icon if they've done good things in their field. Nicki has done good things in her field yet she's not an icon to you? Why is that?
    So now you think she's done nothing for female rap? Really?
    Comparisons don't matter. One could argue that drake is an influential rap icon despite the fact that what he's done probably doesn't compare to what Kanye has done.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Do feel free to read my earlier points about her anti feminist behaviour.



    How funny, she's uneducated as well as inconsistent


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    Uneducated In what way?

    Is Kanye consistent? :laugh: he's one of the top hypocrites of our time
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    But you're being a hypcorite. You said that somebody is an icon if they've done good things in their field. Nicki has done good things in her field yet she's not an icon to you? Why is that?
    So now you think she's done nothing for female rap? Really?
    Comparisons don't matter. One could argue that drake is an influential rap icon despite the fact that what he's done probably doesn't compare to what Kanye has done.
    Yes, you become an icon partly by being at the top of your field. Nicki Minaj is at the top of female rap thus you can say she's a female rap icon. Nicki Minaj is in no way a 'top feminist', she doesn't have a legacy as a feminist thus she isn't a feminist icon.




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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Uneducated In what way?

    Is Kanye consistent? :laugh: he's one of the top hypocrites of our time
    Pay gap has been explained away. He doesn't need to be consistent, he's not trying to become a feminist icon. Out of curiosity in what way is Kanye a hypocrite?


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Yes, you become an icon partly by being at the top of your field. Nicki Minaj is at the top of female rap thus you can say she's a female rap icon. Nicki Minaj is in no way a 'top feminist', she doesn't have a legacy as a feminist thus she isn't a feminist icon.




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    You keep going back to the feminist thing. I can understand why you feel she's not a feminist icon (btw, I never said that she is a 'top' feminist) , which is why I haven't recently mentioned that to you, but she does have a legacy as a female rapper and she fits your criteria of an icon so I don't understand why you feel she's not an influential icon ?
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Pay gap has been explained away. He doesn't need to be consistent, he's not trying to become a feminist icon. Out of curiosity in what way is Kanye a hypocrite?


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    So women should accept being paid less for doing the same job just because we don't have a penis? Speaking about issues doesn't make you uneducated. Nicki minaj isnt trying to be a feminist icon either, she just so happens to say things that fit that category so people have arguably labelled her as such.

    Kanyes hypocrisy:
    He almost went on stage to snatch the mic from Beck because he felt that Beck shouldn't have won and should have given his Grammy to beyonce. Said that beck needs to 'respect artistry' which was hypocrital because wanting to interrupt the speech of a fellow musicial artist isn't at all respecting the artistry. He later said that he went on to listen to Becks album which was he said was actually pretty good. So he said that Beck shouldn't have won despite having never listened to his music

    He refers to himself as Jesus. I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't condone 99% of his lyrics in his raps , or the artwork for his music videos.

    Said he feels like a slave to big companies and corporations, but then asks Nike and Adidas to support him.

    There's probably more
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    You keep going back to the feminist thing. I can understand why you feel she's not a feminist icon (btw, I never said that she is a 'top' feminist) , which is why I haven't recently mentioned that to you, but she does have a legacy as a female rapper and she fits your criteria of an icon so I don't understand why you feel she's not an influential icon ?
    The whole point of this thread and the debate I've had with you for the past four days has been about whether she's a feminist icon or not. Yes she does which is why I've said calling her an icon of female rap is fair.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    So women should accept being paid less for doing the same job just because we don't have a penis? Speaking about issues doesn't make you uneducated. Nicki minaj isnt trying to be a feminist icon either, she just so happens to say things that fit that category so people have arguably labelled her as such.
    Oh so you aren't educated on the pay gap either. Economists have explained why it exists, a number of factors such as hours worked, type of jobs worked etc. the pay gap does not exist where men and women are in the same job role.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Kanyes hypocrisy:
    He almost went on stage to snatch the mic from Beck because he felt that Beck shouldn't have won and should have given his Grammy to beyonce. Said that beck needs to 'respect artistry' which was hypocrital because wanting to interrupt the speech of a fellow musicial artist isn't at all respecting the artistry. He later said that he went on to listen to Becks album which was he said was actually pretty good. So he said that Beck shouldn't have won despite having never listened to his music

    He refers to himself as Jesus. I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't condone 99% of his lyrics in his raps , or the artwork for his music videos.

    Said he feels like a slave to big companies and corporations, but then asks Nike and Adidas to support him.

    There's probably more
    I wouldn't say the top two are hypocritical.


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    She is OPPOSITE of a feminist icon imo
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    The whole point of this thread and the debate I've had with you for the past four days has been about whether she's a feminist icon or not. Yes she does which is why I've said calling her an icon of female rap is fair.
    If you scroll up, our debate has been about more than her being a feminist icon. You said that her achievements are not admirable, that she is a 'niche' artist and that she's a bad influence because of what she says in her lyrics. Well I'm telling you that your favourite rapper says some disrespectful and vulgar things in his raps yet you still refer to him as an influential icon. Feminist or not, you don't believe that she is an icon at all. I'm not asking you if it's fair to call her an icon, I am asking why YOU think that she isn't an influential icon.



    Oh so you aren't educated on the pay gap either. Economists have explained why it exists, a number of factors such as hours worked, type of jobs worked etc. the pay gap does not exist where men and women are in the same job role.
    Just because there's a reason for its existence doesn't mean people cannot express their disagreement.
    This is just like the abortion debate I had with you. As it stands, women are the ones to decide, and the reason is because she's the only one physically affected. Despite that, you still voiced your disagreement about it. Does that make you uneducated to disagree with something that is justified?


    I wouldn't say the top two are hypocritical.


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    Kanye himself acknowledged that what he said about Beck is hypocritical.

    If you feel that calling yourself the Black Jesus and then going against everything he stands for is not hypocritical then Okay

    Regardless, you agree that he has been a hypocrite in at least one instance
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    If you scroll up, our debate has been about more than her being a feminist icon. You said that her achievements are not admirable, that she is a 'niche' artist and that she's a bad influence because of what she says in her lyrics. Well I'm telling you that your favourite rapper says some disrespectful and vulgar things in his raps yet you still refer to him as an influential icon. Feminist or not, you don't believe that she is an icon at all. I'm not asking you if it's fair to call her an icon, I am asking why YOU think that she isn't an influential icon.
    1. Where did I say she's a niche artist?
    2. I didn't criticise her for sending a negative message in her lyrics, I just said those lyrics prevent her from being a feminist icon. I've said multiple times that those lyrics don't prevent her from being a rap icon. I don't think she's an icon because all she has is success; there's been no influence on other big artists, she's done nothing revolutionary in her music, achieved very little outside of music and I don't see her being a rapper people look back on in twenty years.


    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Just because there's a reason for its existence doesn't mean people cannot express their disagreement.
    This is just like the abortion debate I had with you. As it stands, women are the ones to decide, and the reason is because she's the only one physically affected. Despite that, you still voiced your disagreement about it. Does that make you uneducated to disagree with something that is justified?
    It's literally like someone not going to university and then saying it's unfair they can't apply for grad schemes; there's a reason so you don't get to complain.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Kanye himself acknowledged that what he said about Beck is hypocritical.
    Completely irrelevant. Interrupting an award speech doesn't make you a hypocrite, if Kanye thinks it does he doesn't understand the definition of the word.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    If you feel that calling yourself the Black Jesus and then going against everything he stands for is not hypocritical then Okay
    He's not a priest, why is calling himself black Jesus hypocritical?

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Regardless, you agree that he has been a hypocrite in at least one instance
    Hardly makes you 'one of the biggest hypocrites of our generation'.


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    1. Where did I say she's a niche artist?
    You said:I think Kanye is a rap icon. I know you like niches so here's one for you

    2. I didn't criticise her for sending a negative message in her lyrics, I just said those lyrics prevent her from being a feminist icon. I've said multiple times that those lyrics don't prevent her from being a rap icon. I don't think she's an icon because all she has is success; there's been no influence on other big artists, she's done nothing revolutionary in her music, achieved very little outside of music and I don't see her being a rapper people look back on in twenty years.
    You said that somebody is an icon if they've been influential in their field. Her field is music so why does it matter what she has done outside of music?
    She's done nothing revolutionary in her music? Being revolutionary is about dramatic change. Well, shes only the biggest selling female rapper of all time. She's only had arguably the best verse on a song that featured both Kanye and Jay Z. She's only been told that she inspired jay z on a song she did with Beyonce. She only became the first solo female artist to perform on the Grammys. She only become the first woman to feature on the Forbes kings cash list.
    Yeah, there's Nothing revolutionary about any of that.
    I see her as being a rapper to look back on in 20years since she's set the bar extremely high.



    It's literally like someone not going to university and then saying it's unfair they can't apply for grad schemes; there's a reason so you don't get to complain.
    So you don't get to complain that women have sole choice in having an abortion because there's reason for it? You don't have a uterus so you don't get to complain, right?

    Completely irrelevant. Interrupting an award speech doesn't make you a hypocrite, if Kanye thinks it does he doesn't understand the definition of the word.
    You can't criticise someone for 'not respecting artistry' if you're not respecting the artistry yourself, and if you can't see that it's hypocritical then maybe you should look up the definition.

    He's not a priest, why is calling himself black Jesus hypocritical?
    You can't call yourself Jesus if you go against everything he stands for

    Hardly makes you 'one of the biggest hypocrites of our generation'.


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    Well you're in denial if you think that he's not a major hypocrite.
    What about the time he said that his album will never be for sale , will never be available on apple and that it would only be available on tidal but then said that we should end the war with Apple and Tidal and just 'allow the kids to enjoy the music' :laugh:
    Or when he kicked up a fuss about fans illegally downloading his album and then he sends out a tweet of his computer screen without deleting the tab 'pirate bay' which of course is an illegal downloading software for music
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    You said:I think Kanye is a rap icon. I know you like niches so here's one for you
    I said she's an icon in a niche, not that she's a niche artist.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    You said that somebody is an icon if they've been influential in their field. Her field is music so why does it matter what she has done outside of music?
    I said being influential is part of being an icon.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    She's done nothing revolutionary in her music? Being revolutionary is about dramatic change. Well, shes only the biggest selling female rapper of all time.
    That doesn't show a dramatic change.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    She's only had arguably the best verse on a song that featured both Kanye and Jay Z.
    Even if I agreed that still isn't revolutionary

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    She's only been told that she inspired jay z on a song she did with Beyonce.
    Link? Still wouldn't be revolutionary.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    She only became the first solo female artist to perform on the Grammys.
    Link? You mean the performance the producer of the Grammys for the past 35 years called a disappointment?

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    She only become the first woman to feature on the Forbes kings cash list.
    Yeah, there's Nothing revolutionary about any of that.
    These things aren't revolutionary they're achievements. Drawing a lot of rappers away from talking about drugs and guns is revolutionary, a rapper doing an album like 808 is revolutionary, becoming as much a businessman as a rapper is revolutionary (I'm not referencing Kanye on this)

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    I see her as being a rapper to look back on in 20years since she's set the bar extremely high.
    Well of course you'd say that, you're a fan.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    So you don't get to complain that women have sole choice in having an abortion because there's reason for it? You don't have a uterus so you don't get to complain, right?
    I don't not have a uterus by choice. Women, in general, choose degrees that lead to lower paid careers, choose lower paid jobs, choose to work fewer hours, choose to work less overtime, choose family over career and are less money motivated.


    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    You can't criticise someone for 'not respecting artistry' if you're not respecting the artistry yourself, and if you can't see that it's hypocritical then maybe you should look up the definition.
    Interrupting a speech isn't disrespecting artistry nor is thinking someone else made a better album

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    You can't call yourself Jesus if you go against everything he stands for
    What has he done against what Jesus stands for?

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Well you're in denial if you think that he's not a major hypocrite.
    What about the time he said that his album will never be for sale , will never be available on apple and that it would only be available on tidal but then said that we should end the war with Apple and Tidal and just 'allow the kids to enjoy the music' :laugh:
    That doesn't make you a hypocrite, it means you lied.

    Everyone has done hypocritical things but you said he's probably the biggest hypocrite of our time.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Or when he kicked up a fuss about fans illegally downloading his album and then he sends out a tweet of his computer screen without deleting the tab 'pirate bay' which of course is an illegal downloading software for music
    Pirate bay can also be used to legally download. Going on pirate bay doesn't mean you've downloaded anything.


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