Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I said she's an icon in a niche, not that she's a niche artist.
    You said that I like niches.
    So she's not a niche artist to you?

    I said being influential is part of being an icon.
    So why is it so hard for you to just say that Nicki Minaj is an influential rap icon? You haven't said that sentence once.

    That doesn't show a dramatic change.
    If you've accomplished something that no female rapper ever has then that is a dramatic change.

    Even if I agreed that still isn't revolutionary
    Which other female rapper has had arguably the best verse in a song that featured two of the biggest rap icons of our time?

    Link? Still wouldn't be revolutionary.
    Then why do you want a link?

    Link? You mean the performance the producer of the Grammys for the past 35 years called a disappointment?
    Why was it a disappointment?
    & What do you want a link for?

    These things aren't revolutionary they're achievements. Drawing a lot of rappers away from talking about drugs and guns is revolutionary, a rapper doing an album like 808 is revolutionary, becoming as much a businessman as a rapper is revolutionary (I'm not referencing Kanye on this)
    By definition, revolutionary means "involving or causing a complete or dramatic change". she has done many things that have involved a dramatic change.
    If you're not referencing him on that definition, then what makes Kanye West revolutionary?

    Well of course you'd say that, you're a fan.
    It's true though. If you've left a huge stamp on your industry and have surpassed all of the prior artists in your field, you will be remembered.

    Interrupting a speech isn't disrespecting artistry nor is thinking someone else made a better album
    Rudely interrupting an artist to say that they didn't deserve to win and then admitting that you had never actually listened to their winning album isn't disrespecting their artistry?

    What has he done against what Jesus stands for?
    Do you think that Jesus stands for misogyny? Do you think he stands for glorifying drugs? What about Music videos featuring decapitated women?

    That doesn't make you a hypocrite, it means you lied.
    Doing something that you told someone else not to do makes you a hypocrite.

    Everyone has done hypocritical things but you said he's probably the biggest hypocrite of our time.
    Because he is.
    If not the biggest, he's high up there.

    Pirate bay can also be used to legally download. Going on pirate bay doesn't mean you've downloaded anything.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    If you want to believe that then okay. I don't think he's made a comment about it
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    You said that I like niches.
    So she's not a niche artist to you?
    No she's not a niche artist but an icon to niche of rap.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    So why is it so hard for you to just say that Nicki Minaj is an influential rap icon? You haven't said that sentence once.
    Because she hasn't fulfilled the other requirements for being an icon in my opinion. She hasn't smashed records, she isn't outselling everyone else, she hasn't been cited as an influence by other top rappers, she hasn't changed or popularised anything new in rap.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    If you've accomplished something that no female rapper ever has then that is a dramatic change.
    The accomplishment is selling albums/singles - musicians have done that for a very long time so it's not revolutionary, it's just exceeding a group who came before you. Usain Bolt setting the 100m world record for the first time wasn't a revolution, repeatedly breaking it is revolutionary because sprinters didn't really do that before, see the difference?

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Which other female rapper has had arguably the best verse in a song that featured two of the biggest rap icons of our time?
    Being the first person to do maybe do something isn't revolutionary.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Then why do you want a link?
    Because I Googled it and couldn't find an article that mentioned it so I'm having doubts about it even being true.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Why was it a disappointment?
    & What do you want a link for?
    You'll have to ask him that, the quote in the article was quite vague. A link that shows that Nicki Minaj was the first female artist to perform at the Grammys, don't worry though Britney Spears did it when Nicki Minaj was still in High School.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    By definition, revolutionary means "involving or causing a complete or dramatic change". she has done many things that have involved a dramatic change.
    If you're not referencing him on that definition, then what makes Kanye West revolutionary?
    You haven't actually said anything she's done that has been a dramatic change. I've explained the revolutionary things Kanye has done (see earlier posts about 808 and lyrics)

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    It's true though. If you've left a huge stamp on your industry and have surpassed all of the prior artists in your field, you will be remembered.
    But it's a niche field (female rap is a niche of rap) that I don't think many people are that fussed about. To be relevant in the future I think she'll need to be seen in the same light as the most popular and best rappers ever not just the best female.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Rudely interrupting an artist to say that they didn't deserve to win and then admitting that you had never actually listened to their winning album isn't disrespecting their artistry?
    No, I'd say he probably (somewhat ignorantly) thought Beyonce's album was so good nothing could beat it. That's not disrespectful to them, it says more about how highly he thought of Beyonce's album.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Do you think that Jesus stands for misogyny? Do you think he stands for glorifying drugs? What about Music videos featuring decapitated women?
    Well the Bible goes above and beyond misogyny. It also wouldn't make Kanye a hypocrite to call himself Black Jesus and then do unbiblical things.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Doing something that you told someone else not to do makes you a hypocrite.
    He didn't tell other people not to launch on Apple Music, he said he wouldn't then went back on it meaning he lied.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Because he is.
    If not the biggest, he's high up there.
    So far you've come up with one example

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    If you want to believe that then okay. I don't think he's made a comment about it
    Innocent until proven guilty.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    this is merely a single reason why modern feminism is stupid - they both slut shame and slut praise.
    stick with one or the other or none at all, please.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    western feminism is all about shaking bottom and showing breast,
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Because she hasn't fulfilled the other requirements for being an icon in my opinion. She hasn't smashed records, she isn't outselling everyone else, she hasn't been cited as an influence by other top rappers, she hasn't changed or popularised anything new in rap.
    She had outsold every female rapper to date, that's not smashing records?
    She has been cited by Kanye west as having arguably the best verse on the best hip hop album of all time. He felt so threatened by it that he considered taking her verse off the song. That is remarkable.

    The accomplishment is selling albums/singles - musicians have done that for a very long time so it's not revolutionary, it's just exceeding a group who came before you. Usain Bolt setting the 100m world record for the first time wasn't a revolution, repeatedly breaking it is revolutionary because sprinters didn't really do that before, see the difference?
    You can't create your own definition of revolutionary.
    She made a remarkable difference/change to female rap culture and repeatedly won awards for her achievements = revolutionary.

    Being the first person to do maybe do something isn't revolutionary.
    What do you think revolutionary means?

    Because I Googled it and couldn't find an article that mentioned it so I'm having doubts about it even being true.
    She said it in an interview with Angie Martinez.

    You'll have to ask him that, the quote in the article was quite vague. A link that shows that Nicki Minaj was the first female artist to perform at the Grammys, don't worry though Britney Spears did it when Nicki Minaj was still in High School.
    She was the First female rapper to have a solo performance at the Grammys which again marks dramatic change so by definition, that is also revolutionary.
    You haven't actually said anything she's done that has been a dramatic change.
    I have but you don't want to acknowledge it.

    If you were the first male in the world to achieve 12 A* grades at GCSE level,
    1. Why would you feel proud of that?
    2. Would you call it revolutionary?

    But it's a niche field (female rap is a niche of rap) that I don't think many people are that fussed about.
    What do you mean by niche of rap?

    To be relevant in the future I think she'll need to be seen in the same light as the most popular and best rappers ever not just the best female.
    In 20yrs time, her name will definitely come up in conversations regarding the best female rappers ever but to make that relevance even stronger, I agree with this statement.

    No, I'd say he probably (somewhat ignorantly) thought Beyonce's album was so good nothing could beat it. That's not disrespectful to them, it says more about how highly he thought of Beyonce's album.
    Like I said, it is hypocritical to tell someone not to do something that you did. In this instance, don't tell someone to respect the artistry if you cannot respect their artistry. Kanye admitted that he was a hypocrite for this anyway so I'm not going to try and convince you any longer.

    Well the Bible goes above and beyond misogyny. It also wouldn't make Kanye a hypocrite to call himself Black Jesus and then do unbiblical things.
    Jesus said its okay to be misogynistic did he?
    Jesus says it's okay to tell drug dealers to 'stack ya money up' ?


    He didn't tell other people not to launch on Apple Music, he said he wouldn't then went back on it meaning he lied.
    no, he told them that his album will not be available on Apple or anywhere else & that it would only be available on tidal. He then says that we should just allow kids to enjoy the music and that there shouldn't be any beef between apple and tidal but he amplified that beef by refusing to allow apple to stream his album. He's also not allowing the 'kids to enjoy the music' if he's only allowing it to be streamed from one outlet.


    So far you've come up with one example

    Innocent until proven guilty.
    More than one.
    In regard to the illegal downloading thing, I have just seen a video of him being bombarded by the paps and they asked him about it, to which he replied 'I'm a hypocrite bro'.
    Suppose he's not so innocent after all..
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...hion-Week.html
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    She had outsold every female rapper to date, that's not smashing records?
    She has been cited by Kanye west as having arguably the best verse on the best hip hop album of all time. He felt so threatened by it that he considered taking her verse off the song. That is remarkable.
    Ridiculous.
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    Ridiculous.
    Kanye west said this about his own album. We know he's quite full of himself, so he felt that he arguably had the best hip hop album of all time. If you think that's ridiculous then okay. Has nothing to do with Nicki minaj
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    She had outsold every female rapper to date, that's not smashing records?
    She has been cited by Kanye west as having arguably the best verse on the best hip hop album of all time. He felt so threatened by it that he considered taking her verse off the song. That is remarkable.
    I meant general records not niche records. Let's see her outdo Drake or Kanye then we'll say she's an icon. In fact let her even just win a Grammy. Yes, if true that is remarkable but there's no change to the norm.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    You can't create your own definition of revolutionary.
    She made a remarkable difference/change to female rap culture and repeatedly won awards for her achievements = revolutionary.
    I don't need to create my own definition, I very clearly explained the definition to you. Doing what people have done before you but to a better standard isn't revolutionary.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    What do you think revolutionary means?
    You think that if somebody has maybe done something that counts as revolutionary, that is so obviously wrong.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    She said it in an interview with Angie Martinez.
    You still haven't posted a link to it yet.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    She was the First female rapper to have a solo performance at the Grammys which again marks dramatic change so by definition, that is also revolutionary.
    Oh yeah first female rapper, not the first female solo performer. There you go again with the niches. It doesn't mark a dramatic change, women had performed at the Grammys, other rappers had performed at the Grammys.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    I have but you don't want to acknowledge it.
    You've given examples of things she's done to a higher standard but they're all things that have been done before.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    If you were the first male in the world to achieve 12 A* grades at GCSE level,
    1. Why would you feel proud of that?
    2. Would you call it revolutionary?
    My GCSEs weren't far off of that but I can honestly say I don't care so no, I wouldn't say I'd feel proud of that. GCSEs are like BET awards: meaningless. I also wouldn't call it revolutionary, it would just mean I did the same thing other people had done (get good exam grades) but do it to an ever better standard.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    What do you mean by niche of rap?
    Rap is the broad category, female rap is a niche of that.


    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Like I said, it is hypocritical to tell someone not to do something that you did. In this instance, don't tell someone to respect the artistry if you cannot respect their artistry. Kanye admitted that he was a hypocrite for this anyway so I'm not going to try and convince you any longer.
    Well we disagree on whether he disrespected their artistry or not.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Jesus said its okay to be misogynistic did he?
    Jesus says it's okay to tell drug dealers to 'stack ya money up' ?
    Not to my memory but he essentially condones infanticide, genocide, homophobia and filicide so in the grand scheme of things Kanye's a choir boy.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    no, he told them that his album will not be available on Apple or anywhere else & that it would only be available on tidal. He then says that we should just allow kids to enjoy the music and that there shouldn't be any beef between apple and tidal but he amplified that beef by refusing to allow apple to stream his album. He's also not allowing the 'kids to enjoy the music' if he's only allowing it to be streamed from one outlet.
    But Pablo was available on Apple Music about two days after Tidal.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    More than one.
    In regard to the illegal downloading thing, I have just seen a video of him being bombarded by the paps and they asked him about it, to which he replied 'I'm a hypocrite bro'.
    Suppose he's not so innocent after all..
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...hion-Week.html
    Two hypocritical actions makes someone the biggest hypocrite of our time...why don't you just accept that statement was going over the top?


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    I would watch the video, but I'm currently eating, and I'm afraid I'd choke and die.
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I meant general records not niche records. Let's see her outdo Drake or Kanye then we'll say she's an icon. In fact let her even just win a Grammy. Yes, if true that is remarkable but there's no change to the norm.
    You clearly don't know what icon means so here's the definition:

    A person or thing regarded as a representative symbol.
    As of right now, she is the biggest representation of female rap, therefore she is an icon.
    A person doesn't have to win a Grammy or outsell Kanye and drake to be an icon.


    I don't need to create my own definition, I very clearly explained the definition to you. Doing what people have done before you but to a better standard isn't revolutionary.



    You think that if somebody has maybe done something that counts as revolutionary, that is so obviously wrong.
    Let's define revolutionary: involving or causing a complete or dramatic change.
    She has been both involved in and caused a dramatic change in female rap so by definition, she is revolutionary.




    You still haven't posted a link to it yet.
    Use your fingers and type in Nicki Minaj interview with Angus Martinez on YouTube. It's quite a long interview but she discusses Beyoncé in the first few minutes of it.


    Oh yeah first female rapper, not the first female solo performer. There you go again with the niches. It doesn't mark a dramatic change, women had performed at the Grammys, other rappers had performed at the Grammys.
    No other female rapper had performed, so it does mark a dramatic change.
    Obama is revolutionary for being the first African American president of the USA. He wasn't the first president nor was he the first male, but he made revolutionary history.


    You've given examples of things she's done to a higher standard but they're all things that have been done before.
    Not by another female rapper. That's my point.

    My GCSEs weren't far off of that but I can honestly say I don't care so no, I wouldn't say I'd feel proud of that. GCSEs are like BET awards: meaningless. I also wouldn't call it revolutionary, it would just mean I did the same thing other people had done (get good exam grades) but do it to an ever better standard.
    by definition, it would be revolutionary.
    That's very unfortunate to think that if a child of yours was to get the best GCSE results in history, you wouldn't feel proud of them.

    Well we disagree on whether he disrespected their artistry or not.
    He definitely did, but okay


    Not to my memory but he essentially condones infanticide, genocide, homophobia and filicide so in the grand scheme of things Kanye's a choir boy.
    bolded is interesting.
    Source?

    But Pablo was available on Apple Music about two days after Tidal.
    With his permission?

    Two hypocritical actions makes someone the biggest hypocrite of our time...why don't you just accept that statement was going over the top?


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I don't know if he is the biggest, but he is up there.
    & just because you think that the Beck incident wasn't hypocritical, doesn't make you right, does it. ?
    Especially if Kanye himself acknowledged that obvious hypocrisy
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    This thread :laugh:



    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Let's define revolutionary: involving or causing a complete or dramatic change.
    She has been both involved in and caused a dramatic change in female rap so by definition, she is revolutionary.
    No she hasn't :laugh:

    I would say someone like NWA were revolutionaries in Hip-Hop (I'm saying Hip-Hop because I think that is what you mean, there is a difference between Hip-Hop and 'rap').

    tbh, I'm almost certain it's her personality and the brand that appeals to you and not the music, the music just happens to follow her initial appeal.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    You clearly don't know what icon means so here's the definition:

    A person or thing regarded as a representative symbol.
    As of right now, she is the biggest representation of female rap, therefore she is an icon.
    A person doesn't have to win a Grammy or outsell Kanye and drake to be an icon.
    You do know different dictionaries will give you different definitions of words? I'm pretty happy with how I've defined 'icon'. In my view to be considered iconic you have to match the achievements of other icons which is why I've set the bar at Drake/Kanye.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Let's define revolutionary: involving or causing a complete or dramatic change.
    She has been both involved in and caused a dramatic change in female rap so by definition, she is revolutionary.
    What dramatic change has she caused in female rap? Outdoing other people isn't a dramatic change.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Use your fingers and type in Nicki Minaj interview with Angus Martinez on YouTube. It's quite a long interview but she discusses Beyoncé in the first few minutes of it.
    The beginning of this interview has reminded me of how she so blatantly ripped of Jay Z's album name :laugh:. So everything she says in interviews I should take as gospel truth but the stuff she says in her songs I can assume aren't true?

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    No other female rapper had performed, so it does mark a dramatic change.
    Obama is revolutionary for being the first African American president of the USA. He wasn't the first president nor was he the first male, but he made revolutionary history.
    You're changing it, Obama is significant because he's the first African-American President. He isn't the first president but he's significant for being the first African-American president. She wasn't the first female or the first rapper. It's also laughable that you're equating someone becoming president to someone performing at an award ceremony, one is iconic and the other isn't.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Not by another female rapper. That's my point.
    Outside of selling perfume and performing at an award ceremony you have named anything she's done that no other female rapper has done before. You're so focused on keeping her in this niche.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    by definition, it would be revolutionary.
    That's very unfortunate to think that if a child of yours was to get the best GCSE results in history, you wouldn't feel proud of them.
    No it wouldn't, it would be doing the same thing that lots of other people have done (getting GCSEs) but doing it to a higher standard.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    He definitely did, but okay
    He definitely didn't but okay (I can behave like a seven year old too)

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    bolded is interesting.
    Source?
    The Bible, use your hands and look through the Bible.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    With his permission?
    Yes otherwise Apple would have been sued for astronomical sums of money.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    I don't know if he is the biggest, but he is up there.
    & just because you think that the Beck incident wasn't hypocritical, doesn't make you right, does it. ?
    Especially if Kanye himself acknowledged that obvious hypocrisy
    My seven year old cousin recently acknowledged that he's the best footballer in the world.

    You're clearly just an over invested fan who can't actually respond objectively. You're so determined to make her an icon that you're trying to make her so niche (not a music icon, not a rap icon but a female rap icon).

    I have a suggestion for an even bigger hypocrite: Nicki Minaj - supposedly talks about feminism all the time yet makes songs that are essentially glorify the antithesis of feminism and is such an activist yet when her brother is charged with raping a kid she stays silent.
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Underscore__)
    You do know different dictionaries will give you different definitions of words? I'm pretty happy with how I've defined 'icon'. In my view to be considered iconic you have to match the achievements of other icons which is why I've set the bar at Drake/Kanye.



    What dramatic change has she caused in female rap? Outdoing other people isn't a dramatic change.



    The beginning of this interview has reminded me of how she so blatantly ripped of Jay Z's album name :laugh:. So everything she says in interviews I should take as gospel truth but the stuff she says in her songs I can assume aren't true?



    You're changing it, Obama is significant because he's the first African-American President. He isn't the first president but he's significant for being the first African-American president. She wasn't the first female or the first rapper. It's also laughable that you're equating someone becoming president to someone performing at an award ceremony, one is iconic and the other isn't.



    Outside of selling perfume and performing at an award ceremony you have named anything she's done that no other female rapper has done before. You're so focused on keeping her in this niche.



    No it wouldn't, it would be doing the same thing that lots of other people have done (getting GCSEs) but doing it to a higher standard.



    He definitely didn't but okay (I can behave like a seven year old too)



    The Bible, use your hands and look through the Bible.



    Yes otherwise Apple would have been sued for astronomical sums of money.



    My seven year old cousin recently acknowledged that he's the best footballer in the world.

    You're clearly just an over invested fan who can't actually respond objectively. You're so determined to make her an icon that you're trying to make her so niche (not a music icon, not a rap icon but a female rap icon).

    I have a suggestion for an even bigger hypocrite: Nicki Minaj - supposedly talks about feminism all the time yet makes songs that are essentially glorify the antithesis of feminism and is such an activist yet when her brother is charged with raping a kid she stays silent.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    I'll assume from that this case is closed


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I'll assume from that this case is closed


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Yeah it certainly is
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Yeah it certainly is
    Finally


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Finally


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Yes I've had enough of arguing with a stranger
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Yes I've had enough of arguing with a stranger
    Don't get involved in debates if you don't like debates


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Don't get involved in debates if you don't like debates


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I'll just be sure not to quote you again, since you like to have week long debates
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    I'll just be sure not to quote you again, since you like to have week long debates
    Well apparently you do to, you even quoted me responding to someone else's post


    Posted from TSR Mobile
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Will you be richer or poorer than your parents?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.