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Surprise surprise, identity of Quebec shooter revealed! Watch

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    (Original post by QE2)
    Well done!

    What is "Middle Eastern Islam"? I don't want to lecture you again, but did you know that there is only one Islam. The word of Allah from the Quran and the example of Muhammad from the sunnah. Different parts of the world don't have different Islams. It's not McDonald's you know!

    Sorry, didn't understand this bit.
    When they hear Islam they think of the Middle East,middle eastern Muslims/Arab muslims,especially when it comes to to terrorist attacks/suspects of such attacks. Don't act dumb boo.

    Typo,was meant to say white instead of 'why'
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Farage, Le Pen and Trump were directly responsible for this.

    UKIPpers and Trump supporters, shame on you all.

    Your hatred and vitriol is causing a slow descent into civil war.

    This was a far-right French Canadian, and the far-right in Quebec is deeply linked with the far-right in France. The far-right leader in France is a top candidate for the presidency.

    We need an alt-left to organise the dissent against these fascists who are usurping the West. A peoples' uprising against the white supremacists who seek to massacre and deport blacks and muslims. To defend the weak, and those who do not conform to the fascists' antiquated views on gender, sexuality, and everything else.

    In the Name of Humanity, We REFUSE To Accept a Fascist West!

    Millions of people around the world are filled with deep anxiety, fear, and disgust. Our anguish is right and just. Our anger must now become massive resistance – before the fascists across Europe gain power.

    Should we fail to rise with determination and daring in our millions now to stop this, the consequences for humanity will be disastrous. We, the peoples' defenders, know in the depths of our beings, the catastrophe that will befall the people of the world should the fascist regimes assume full power.

    Our resistance must spread rapidly to every sphere and every corner of the country. Because we refuse to accept a fascist Europe, millions must rise up in a resistance with a deep determination such that we create a political crisis that prevents the fascist regimes from gaining the governance of society.

    Fascism foments and relies on xenophobic nationalism, racism, misogyny, and the aggressive re-institution of oppressive “traditional values.” Fascism feeds on and encourages the threat and use of violence to build a movement and come to power. Fascism, once in power, essentially eliminates traditional democratic rights. Fascism attacks, jails, even executes its opponents, and launches violent mob attacks on “minorities.” In Nazi Germany in the 1930s and ’40s, fascism did all these things. This is where this can go. And yes, Hitler himself could “talk graciously” when he felt it would serve his interests and lull his opponents.

    If you work with fascists you normalize the road to horror. You cannot try to “wait things out.” Those who lived through Nazi Germany and sat on the sidelines, looking on as Hitler demonized, criminalized, and eventually rounded up one group after another, became shameful collaborators with monstrous crimes. Don’t Conciliate… Don’t Accommodate… Don’t Collaborate!

    This is not wishful thinking but could be made a reality if all who hate what is represented by these fascists translate our outrage into massive mobilization to create the political conditions which make this possible. We are millions.

    We call on each and every one who opposes what these fascists stand for, and what it will do, to take part in and actively build, this resistance and refusal. Organize. Plan. Act.
    No they were not directly responsible for this.

    They do no condone this at all, you constantly say not all muslims and this man clearly does not represent all people on the right wing, it represents a very sad few. I for one would never even consider an act of violence against people I disagree with (Unless they were attacking me)
    Fascism is not what really any serious political party is so stop painting it like Farage is the new Hitler and Trump wants to kill Millions of peope you are a discrace as those people that suffered know what real Fascism is.

    I once thought you were left wing but sensible but clearly not.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    She means "non-Muslims", because she thinks that all brown people are Muslim. Or is it the other way round.
    Ahh OK. I'm just very worried for Iranians...
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Well, they are there. And the media streams have had little else as their main item.

    No, it probably isn't. An I am getting tired of explaining this every time there is an attack.

    People react to events on the basis on a combination of familiarity and proximity.
    For example, this attack has probably had a greater response in France than it has in the UK. However, if it had occured in Vancouver, it may have received more coverage in the UK.
    The Paris attack would have a greater response in the UK and Spain than the Turkey attack, whereas the Turkey attacks would have a bigger response in Greece and Syria.
    It's not rocket science and it is either naive or disingenuous to insist that all events should elicit the same response from everyone.
    What was this trending hashtag expressing solidarity? How many people changed their profile picture to the Canadian flag? How many newspapers had this on their front page?

    I'm sorry but I don't buy that. I'm not insisting that 'all events should elicit the same response from everyone'. With incidents like the Turkey and Beirut bomb attacks, I understood why those attacks received less media coverage than for example the Paris ones. As you and others so frequently love to point out, the west tend to be more concerned with issues regarding other western countries. It's not just about proximity, the US is not of close proximity to Europe but the Orlando attack was heavily reported. Canada is a western country, so there's really no valid reason that the Quebac attack received less attention. If it had been a Muslim attacker that shot worshippers in a church, do you honestly think the level of coverage and outrage would be the same as this one?? Would you have people refusing to consider the attack an act of terrorism?

    Also drop the condescending tone. It's unnecessary and adds nothing to your argument
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    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    Surprise indeed. Yet another white supremacist, male terrorist.

    This branch of terrorism has now become much more prolific than so-called "Islamic" terrorism. Donald Trump should ban all immigration from white Christian nations just so we can figure out what's going on.
    Stop being so silly. we have a few nutters with guns compared to a *well* organized millitary with bombs tanks and many other weapons of destruction that are happy to enslave and rape and torture people they disagree with en masse. They are far far more dangerous and have killed many in Europe and far more in the Middle east. you really underestemate the evil of Islamic terrorism.

    Dont get me wrong this act was awful and no sensible person would want this to ever happen
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    When they hear Islam they think of the Middle East,middle eastern Muslims/Arab muslims,especially when it comes to to terrorist attacks/suspects of such attacks. Don't act dumb boo.
    Look, I really don't want to lecture you again, but the vast majority of the world's Muslims do actually live in the Middle East, North Africa and South Asia.
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    (Original post by the bear)
    nutters + firearms = tragedy

    the only part of this equation which can be tackled rigorously is the firearms, which we do successfully in this country.
    Canada already has strict gun laws. Many aspects of their laws are even stricter than ours in the UK. And the gun the shooter apparently used is already illegal in Canada, so what exactly are more gun laws going to do?
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    (Original post by MildredMalone)
    I guess such a shooter would be a white guy eventually.
    Awkward when the majority of shooters are White lol
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    Right-wingers silent lol. Why aren't they condemning this?
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Where are all the white supremacists who are supposed to speak up and condemn this?
    They needn't to apologise on behalf of this guy or speak up against it.
    The last thing we need is white supremacists streaming in and spouting their racism :lol:
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Look, I really don't want to lecture you again, but the vast majority of the world's Muslims do actually live in the Middle East, North Africa and South Asia.
    You're a genius! SO,you're here to confirm then that when most white supremacy apologists think about Islam/Muslims,its usually Arabs or Asian Muslims,right?
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    (Original post by CurlyBen)
    For me the thing that distinguishes an act of terrorism from an act of hatred is the lack of an organisation with clear aims behind the individual. When a Muslim terrorist strikes they are generally affiliated to Al Qaeda or ISIS (either directly or through an associated group) who have clear if horrible goals, which they are prepared to use violence against civilians to achieve. That's terrorism. Whether it's effective is another debate, but that is typically the reason for conducting the attack.
    On the other hand, when a lone individual (of any colour or creed) decides to shoot people of another colour or creed simply because of that difference, without any expected outcome or goal beyond the injury or death of those he attacks, that's an act of hatred. It doesn't make it any better, but I think it does distinguish it from terrorism. Unfortunately it's extremely difficult to defend against lone wolf attacks (other than by limiting supply of guns, for example, to the general population) because there's almost no way of detecting the intentions of someone who doesn't communicate them to others.
    I also find it slightly ironic when people say the media never portrays white people as terrorists. I grew up associating terrorism with white people thanks to Northern Ireland.
    Why is terrorism necessarily distinct from hatred? I daresay that most, if not all terrorism is precisely because the perpetrator hates the individuals or organisations it is attacking.
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    (Original post by childofthesun)
    What was this trending hashtag expressing solidarity? How many people changed their profile picture to the Canadian flag? How many newspapers had this on their front page?
    1. On twitter? I didn't specify a particular #. You just asked "Where are the #s?"
    2. No idea. Kinda silly of you to expect me to know.
    3. All of them (online versions - I don't do paper)

    I'm sorry but I don't buy that.
    Of course you don't. It doesn't fit the approved victim narrative.

    As you and others so frequently love to point out, the west tend to be more concerned with issues regarding other western countries.
    And "the east" (or whatever you call it - "the Muslim world?") doesn't? To coin a phrase, I'm sorry but I don't buy that.

    It's not just about proximity, the US is not of close proximity to Europe but the Orlando attack was heavily reported
    Which is why I specifically said "a combination of familiarity and proximity". Have a wild guess at which countries are culturally the most familiar to the British.

    Canada is a western country, so there's really no valid reason that the Quebac attack received less attention.
    If we take into account the severity of the attack (Orlando had over 100 casualties, 49 fatal) I'm not sure it has received less attention.

    If it had been a Muslim attacker that shot worshippers in a church, do you honestly think the level of coverage and outrage would be the same as this one??
    Obviously not, for the reasons I gave.

    Would you have people refusing to consider the attack an act of terrorism?
    Who is refusing to consider it an act of terrorism?

    Also drop the condescending tone. It's unnecessary and adds nothing to your argument
    D'you really think so? Well, I'm sure you know best.
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    (Original post by childofthesun)
    How many newspapers had this on their front page?
    well, I usually read the "Corriere della sera" (main Italian newspaper, published in Milan)-

    Quebec attack had an article on the frontpage and then the entire pages 2 and 3 (pages 4 and 5 dealt about Trump, Muslim ban, xenophobia etc etc)

    Not sure about all other newspapers... did you check some of them ?

    best
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    The last thing we need is white supremacists streaming in and spouting their racism :lol:
    There are lots of sympathisers on This site already. IKR! Just means extra stress
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    (Original post by zezno)
    Awkward when the majority of shooters are White lol
    Tell it boo!
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    You're a genius! SO,you're here to confirm then that when most white supremacy apologists think about Islam/Muslims,its usually Arabs or Asian Muslims,right?
    When most people think of Muslims, they generally think of ME, NA and SA - because that is where the vast majority come from. It's not racist or bigoted or Islamophobic. It's not even wrong.
    What is wrong is to assume that all Muslims are of a certain ethnicity. Or that all white people are non-Muslims. Or to just refer to "white people" as if they are some homogeneous group.

    As I keep saying, I wish people would stop this obsession with race. It's not healthy. I'm thinking of inventing a pair of glasses that turn every skin tone to the same shade of blue.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    There are lots of sympathisers on This site already. IKR! Just means extra stress
    Perhaps if we get them on the same thread as the Islamist sympathisers they will cancel each other out like matter/anti matter, and then we can have sensible discussions about stuff without all the shrill, bonkers nonsense?
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    (Original post by QE2)
    When most people think of Muslims, they generally think of ME, NA and SA - because that is where the vast majority come from. It's not racist or bigoted or Islamophobic. It's not even wrong.
    What is wrong is to assume that all Muslims are of a certain ethnicity. Or that all white people are non-Muslims. Or to just refer to "white people" as if they are some homogeneous group.

    As I keep saying, I wish people would stop this obsession with race. It's not healthy. I'm thinking of inventing a pair of glasses that turn every skin tone to the same shade of blue.
    Go preach to the white supremacists you're making excuses for by comparing them to 'middle eastern' terrorists/brown',thus downplaying this attack
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Perhaps if we get them on the same thread as the Islamist sympathisers they will cancel each other out like matter/anti matter, and then we can have sensible discussions about stuff without all the shrill, bonkers nonsense?
    We can finally agree on something habibi :heart:
 
 
 
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