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    Hey guys so didn't get into med school this year. I have a medical science and microbiology degree. Should I do the PA course? How does it work finance wise if I decide to do ''tis masters course then choose to study medicine after?
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    Why would you do the PA degree then medicine? You can just apply again next year?

    http://www.money4medstudents.org/med...-second-degree
    This might be helpful for you. I know they are looking at changing the way they fund medical courses for graduates, especially as many unis are stopping the four year course, but I don't know how soon any changes would happen
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    They are entirely different things. PA is not 'Doctor Lite'. What is it that you actually want to do?
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    They're stopping the graduate courses why?

    I I want to be a doctor, but I'm stuck being an HCA in forensic mental health and it's literally killing me. I thought perhaps doing the PA course would be a good stopgap measure so at least I'm still moving forward doing something until I get onto that
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    (Original post by acook59)
    They're stopping the graduate courses why?

    I I want to be a doctor, but I'm stuck being an HCA in forensic mental health and it's literally killing me. I thought perhaps doing the PA course would be a good stopgap measure so at least I'm still moving forward doing something until I get onto that
    They were looking into scrapping 4 year courses because the EU likes doctors to be to hit the ground running and that requires 5 years of medical school. At the moment FY1 is being considered as a GEM students 'fifth year' as you have minor responsibilities and are still spending a considerable amount of time in training and basically doing an apprenticeship as an FY1.

    However, as Brexit has happened/is happening I don't think this will matter anymore. And if Hunt wants to stay true to his word (if that means anything) about recruiting/training more British doctors then scrapping the accelerated 4 year GEM course would be a stupid way to go about it. However, this is a man who scrapped nursing bursaries which has now seen a significant drop in applicants and will leave us with even worse nurse shortages than we already have in the future (especially as less foreign nurses are feeling unwelcomed due to the nations stance on Brexit).

    What is stopping you from applying to medicine at the moment? If you can apply to be a PA then you can likely apply for medicine, although you might have to cherry pick only a handful of universities to apply to depending on your circumstance.
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    (Original post by acook59)
    They're stopping the graduate courses why?

    I I want to be a doctor, but I'm stuck being an HCA in forensic mental health and it's literally killing me. I thought perhaps doing the PA course would be a good stopgap measure so at least I'm still moving forward doing something until I get onto that
    Hey

    I understand your desire to be a doctor. Im sure that many of us have that childhood dream of growing up to be a doctor.
    But may I say that becoming a PA as means to becoming a doctor is not a good idea at all.
    PAs and Doctors are different professionals, and if you decide to study to become a PA that won't mean that you wont have to go back to 5/4 years of Uni to become a Doctor. I know that a lot of the training PAs and Medical students receive are the same, but you wont be able to jump between courses and you might find at the end of 2 really difficult years that you are not closer to being a doctor and that can be very frustrating for you.
    If what you desire is to practice medicine, treat patients in the medical model and being in charge of patient consultation/diagnosis/treatment plan, than you might enjoying being a PA. However, I really should urge you not to apply to the course as a consolation prize for not getting into medicine
    My advice is to have a talk with some PAs here and maybe in the US (they have many websites that you can chat with PAs there) and find out a little bit more about the profession and what it actually means.
    If you decide to follow with it, it should be because you want to become a PA and practice medicine as a PA. That doesn't mean you would be any less good in medicine, since that only depends on how dedicated you are to your studies
    sorry for the rant, hope it helps
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    (Original post by Marathi)
    They were looking into scrapping 4 year courses because the EU likes doctors to be to hit the ground running and that requires 5 years of medical school. At the moment FY1 is being considered as a GEM students 'fifth year' as you have minor responsibilities and are still spending a considerable amount of time in training and basically doing an apprenticeship as an FY1.
    Erm, being an FY1 does not involve "minor responsibilities". You are a doctor, you will be on call a lot, you will be responsible for enacting the day to day care and management of the ward patients, and in the middle of the night when someone is very sick, you will be the first person who gets bleeped.

    FY1 is mostly service provision i.e. the opposite of a training post.

    The issue is that since you're still provisionally registered as an FY1, it is your medical school's responsibility to sign you off for full registration (even if you moved to the other side of the country). This is just a quirk of the British medical education system, it doesn't mean that a GEP doctor hasn't hit the ground running or hasn't fully completed their undergraduate training compared to someone on a five or six year degree.
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    (Original post by acook59)
    They're stopping the graduate courses why?

    I I want to be a doctor, but I'm stuck being an HCA in forensic mental health and it's literally killing me. I thought perhaps doing the PA course would be a good stopgap measure so at least I'm still moving forward doing something until I get onto that
    Why don't you look at moving to a different HCA job, like on a ward on in a care home, and apply again next year? It's so common to not get into medical school on your first/second round of applications, and there's really no point doing the PA course as you're just delaying your application and wasting money.
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    Erm, being an FY1 does not involve "minor responsibilities". You are a doctor, you will be on call a lot, you will be responsible for enacting the day to day care and management of the ward patients, and in the middle of the night when someone is very sick, you will be the first person who gets bleeped.

    FY1 is mostly service provision i.e. the opposite of a training post.

    The issue is that since you're still provisionally registered as an FY1, it is your medical school's responsibility to sign you off for full registration (even if you moved to the other side of the country). This is just a quirk of the British medical education system, it doesn't mean that a GEP doctor hasn't hit the ground running or hasn't fully completed their undergraduate training compared to someone on a five or six year degree.
    Sorry, minor wasn't the right word, I meant it in comparison to the responsibilities/decisions that you would face further into your medical career. FY1 is a tough job, one of the hardest years of them all, I have no delusions about that.

    But, the argument that the GMC and medical educators make against the EU for GEM (http://student.bmj.com/student/view-...?id=sbmj.h3282) is that FY1 acts as a 'topping' up of education. Even though in real life we both know that is rarely the case due to the amounts of work an FY1 has to do.
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    I applied but I didn't get a trail blazing UKCAT score, altho I didn't do terribly at all. At least it was a good learning experience for practicing some of the harder sections, but I dare say some advice and tips would be good to get, and I guess I need to learn how to answer the questions a bit better as they seemed very difficult indeed, and to be honest, I feel like a third of the test was how good you are at guessing, as you never have enough time! I just thought doing PA would be a good stopgap, but I'm unsure now! I applied to warwick, Newcastle, Southampton and kings, but Newcastle was the only one to want evidence of ongoing academic endeavour, whatever that is!
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    Any ideas guys?
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    (Original post by acook59)
    Any ideas guys?
    I think it's partly luck unfortunately! But just spend about a month doing practice questions (the ISC medical books are good, or look at the UKCAT website). My first time round was terrible, but my second was great.
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    (Original post by acook59)
    I applied but I didn't get a trail blazing UKCAT score, altho I didn't do terribly at all. At least it was a good learning experience for practicing some of the harder sections, but I dare say some advice and tips would be good to get, and I guess I need to learn how to answer the questions a bit better as they seemed very difficult indeed, and to be honest, I feel like a third of the test was how good you are at guessing, as you never have enough time! I just thought doing PA would be a good stopgap, but I'm unsure now! I applied to warwick, Newcastle, Southampton and kings, but Newcastle was the only one to want evidence of ongoing academic endeavour, whatever that is!
    The ISC book and Medify should be sufficient. Loved Medify and the familiarity it gave me with the actual exam and practising on screen.
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    HHmm I really struggled with the comprehension, very difficult! Then the situational questions seemed like gobbledeygook, u could argue most of the answers if necessary!
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    (Original post by acook59)
    They're stopping the graduate courses why?

    I I want to be a doctor, but I'm stuck being an HCA in forensic mental health and it's literally killing me. I thought perhaps doing the PA course would be a good stopgap measure so at least I'm still moving forward doing something until I get onto that
    I am currently on a PA course and also applied for medicine and secured a place half way through the programme! I completely get the stopgap idea. The course aims to get students to a "final year medic student" level by the end of the two years. You learn many of the same competencies as a junior doctor and the role will be so widespread in a few years for sure.

    I applied for the PA course because I didn't want to get stuck as an emergency care assistant year after year if I didn't get into medicine and I really do believe it's a great alternative career. The "cheap doctor" perceptions and criticisms will pass when it gets better known. It has it's downsides- limitations, semi-autonomous, no regulation (although this is being discussed in parliament this year) and limited progression. BUT i've had many doctors come into teach us and it seems to be very well received, despite what the papers say! I reckon go for it. Some universities pay you a salary to do the course so no financial loss!

    And, you can still apply whilst doing the PA course- it doesn't delay you applying.
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    Oh that's so interesting. Are you enjoying it? Do you find yourself getting looked down on by medics/medical students? Are you still applying for medicine whilst doing the course? I don't really know much about the structure of the course on a day to day basis, contact time, hours a day etc, nor do I know much about how a job as a PA is on a daily basis or in terms of rota's/shifts etc

    (Original post by bmd2)
    I am currently on a PA course and also applied for medicine and secured a place half way through the programme! I completely get the stopgap idea. The course aims to get students to a "final year medic student" level by the end of the two years. You learn many of the same competencies as a junior doctor and the role will be so widespread in a few years for sure.

    I applied for the PA course because I didn't want to get stuck as an emergency care assistant year after year if I didn't get into medicine and I really do believe it's a great alternative career. The "cheap doctor" perceptions and criticisms will pass when it gets better known. It has it's downsides- limitations, semi-autonomous, no regulation (although this is being discussed in parliament this year) and limited progression. BUT i've had many doctors come into teach us and it seems to be very well received, despite what the papers say! I reckon go for it. Some universities pay you a salary to do the course so no financial loss!

    And, you can still apply whilst doing the PA course- it doesn't delay you applying.
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    (Original post by acook59)
    Oh that's so interesting. Are you enjoying it? Do you find yourself getting looked down on by medics/medical students? Are you still applying for medicine whilst doing the course? I don't really know much about the structure of the course on a day to day basis, contact time, hours a day etc, nor do I know much about how a job as a PA is on a daily basis or in terms of rota's/shifts etc
    Yeah the course is great! Its new to the university so there are a few teething problems but generally everyone is really excited about it so the atmosphere is good.

    Not at all in my experience. We have placement in GP practices in the first year and I come across med students who haven't heard of the role (not many have) but seem really interested! From the doctors I've spoken to working with PA's, they love them! Junior doctors have short rotations so go to them with queries when they are new to the department (you would become fairly specialist) and they are another resource easing the demand.

    I did apply for medicine whilst on the course (I did my UKCAT before accepting the place so thought I may as well!). I have paid £5k of tuition fees which I will effectively lose now because I am accepting an offer for a GEM course. But, I have learnt so much in this time, got used to OSCE formats, PBL, clinical skills and got exposure in placements which i'm sure will help me with the accelerated course.

    The course structure varies between each university. For us, it is basically mon-fri 9-5. We study all of the 'ologies' to masters level (some very complex biomed!), do clinical skills, PBL, GP placements and pharmacology. We have to do a dissertation so have a module on research too.

    For more information on the PA role, I would look at NHS jobs and see what they describe for responsibilities etc. Basically you work as part of the medical team in a similar role to a junior doctor. You take your own case load, take a history, examine, diagnose and interpret tests. You create management plans and refer to the consultant for any advice, complex cases and signing off prescriptions. The role is still new so I think that it very much varies nationally and in different trusts. It is semi-autonomous (they wouldnt pay band 7 to just report everything back to a consultant). Rotas and shifts again vary depending on department just like a junior doctor. In A&E or MAU you can expect to work shifts, other wards maybe not!
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    (Original post by bmd2)
    We study all of the 'ologies' to masters level (some very complex biomed!), do clinical skills, PBL, GP placements and pharmacology.
    Undergraduate medical students don't study "all of the ologies to masters level" (because, you know, an MB BS/MB ChB is an undergraduate degree)...but you're telling me students on a two year PA course do? How does that add up?
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    Undergraduate medical students don't study "all of the ologies to masters level" (because, you know, an MB BS/MB ChB is an undergraduate degree)...but you're telling me students on a two year PA course do? How does that add up?
    We queried it as well, especially as the course is open to all students who have studied a clinical or science related undergraduate degree but not necessarily biomedicine- I have a social sciences background so it went way over my head! I showed my med student friend who also said they weren't studying it in anywhere near the level we were, but the module leaders insisted we just had to get on with it because it is a masters.

    Its probably because it is technically a higher level qualification (level 7 as opposed to level 6). All of our modules are masters level apart from pharmacology. Or in our university we were taught by the biomed department so they may have just seen "masters level" and not thought about what we actually need to know.
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    (Original post by bmd2)
    (you would become fairly specialist)
    In what exactly?

    (Original post by bmd2)
    I am accepting an offer for a GEM course.
    Why?According to your post, PA masters is great and makes you a "specialist".

    (Original post by bmd2)
    We study all of the 'ologies' to masters level (some very complex biomed!)
    I assume this includes the clinical "ologies"? Even if it didn't, you don't really believe that, do you? Assuming you were speaking of basic sciences alone, you have just claimed that you study all basic sciences to masters level (e.g. biology, anatomy, histology, embryology, physiology, pathology, microbiology and others). Assuming you were speaking of both basic sciences and clinical subjects (e.g. gynaecology, ORL, surgery, neurology and others), you really think that your university is going to train all its students to masers levels in these subject areas, in 2 years?
 
 
 
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