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What type of politician is in the best position to combat the rise of far-right? Watch

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    As the title asks, discuss...
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    A leftist whose ideology is rooted in progressive class politics as opposed to regressive identity politics. Bernie Sanders sounds a solid option.
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    As above, a classical liberal. One that defends actual liberal values that have been eroded by both the modern left and right. Protecting secularism, democracy, free speech, economic freedom, science etc. and more importantly recognising the enemies of such values instead of cozying up to them e.g. the left's cowardly attitude towards Islamism that has not only allowed Islamists to thrive but for the right to take advantage by bigoted means and win the case in many people's eyes.
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    At this point probably a centrist
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    the far right is not rising, conservatism is rising, if you think we are heading towards Fascism you are wrong.
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    We've spent so long being ruled by a left liberal 'progressive' ideology that anything vaguely right of centre is immediately castigated as 'far right/fascist'
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    the far right is not rising, conservatism is rising, if you think we are heading towards Fascism you are wrong.
    This is false. Nationalism is rising. Conservatism is still dying. Fascism is generally left-wing towards the 'in-group' (i.e. citizens), and right-wing towards the 'out-group' (i.e. xenos). This is why fascism is being so successful - it is riding both the anti-globalism, anti-austerity, and broadly anti-capitalism wave, at the same time as riding the anti-xenos wave. If it weren't for its ugly history, fascists would have been elected by large margins all across Europe already.
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    A leftist whose ideology is rooted in progressive class politics as opposed to regressive identity politics. Bernie Sanders sounds a solid option.
    Nonsense.

    The only group of people Sanders represented was the millennials. To win America you need the working class, as Trump proved.
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    (Original post by Reality Check)
    We've spent so long being ruled by a left liberal 'progressive' ideology that anything vaguely right of centre is immediately castigated as 'far right/fascist'
    I'd say the opposite. Our politics has shifted to the right over the last few decades to the point that anything remotely left wing is just derided as "socialist" or "extreme left", even when we're talking about totally reasonable and popular policies that have evidence behind them.
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    No one can. The far-right are here and we're here to stay.
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    The type with military and agent powers who isn't far right.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    This is false. Nationalism is rising. Conservatism is still dying. Fascism is generally left-wing towards the 'in-group' (i.e. citizens), and right-wing towards the 'out-group' (i.e. xenos). This is why fascism is being so successful - it is riding both the anti-globalism, anti-austerity, and broadly anti-capitalism wave, at the same time as riding the anti-xenos wave. If it weren't for its ugly history, fascists would have been elected by large margins all across Europe already.
    Can you actually give me an example of a recently prominent fascist policy?
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    Classical liberalism, economic liberalism, culture liberalism and centrism. These ideologies are the only ones around that have a chance against a regressive movement like the far right.

    Frankly the democrats have very strong career politicians with a thorough of the economy and realises that economic liberalism is the only way to convince fanatics that this populist revolt is a mere distraction from the issues of today.

    I for one am happy that Trump is president. The white majority have made their opinion very clear and Trump being in power should tell them how dangerous and wrong it was of them to look at Trump as their saviour. The Democrats have the next 4 years to see where they went wrong and bring people to realise how bad Trump is as president and what made them think Clinton was a good leader.

    I predict a huge majority for the Democrats in 2020.
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    (Original post by midnightice)
    Can you actually give me an example of a recently prominent fascist policy?
    Do you read the news?
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    (Original post by midnightice)
    Can you actually give me an example of a recently prominent fascist policy?
    There aren't any specifically fascist policies. There are sets of policies associated with fascism - namely nationalist policies, nativist policies, (somewhat) socialist policies, technocratic policies, ...

    I wouldn't call UKIP or Germany's AfD fascist. But Front National, Jobbik, and similar parties most certainly are.
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    A right wing autocrat like Salazar who can maintain traditional values and corporatist economics while shutting down extremist leftist and fascist groups.

    I don't know if one exists.
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    (Original post by DirtyJesus)
    Do you read the news?
    Yes, please give me one.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    There aren't any specifically fascist policies. There are sets of policies associated with fascism - namely nationalist policies, nativist policies, (somewhat) socialist policies, technocratic policies, ...

    I wouldn't call UKIP or Germany's AfD fascist. But Front National, Jobbik, and similar parties most certainly are.
    'Fascism' gets thrown around too much, and it's an insult to the millions who have died from it. 'Nationalist' would be the best term to describe the likes of Le Pen. Fascism is a gross exaggeration and demeans the term.
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    (Original post by midnightice)
    'Fascism' gets thrown around too much, and it's an insult to the millions who have died from it. 'Nationalist' would be the best term to describe the likes of Le Pen. Fascism is a gross exaggeration and demeans the term.
    Fascism is really an advanced form of nationalism. I don't particularly care much for the most common definition of fascism as 'far-right', because that implies fascism is just extreme conservatism or market liberalism, which is nonsense.

    What is Fascism? (Click to expand)
    Tl;dr: Fascism is fundamentally nationalistic, militaristic, and modern, leaning toward somewhat - but distinct from - socialism (indeed, many leading Fascists were Socialists earlier in their life, such as Mussolini himself).

    Fascism is a relatively hard ideology to define; however, most fascist ideologies share the following core tenets:

    Autarky (Click to expand)
    Most fascists favour complete self-dependence of their state, and reject globalisation.


    Corporatism (Click to expand)
    The idea that the economical structure of the country should be regulated like a corpus (body), each section a corporative (not a corporation), which is a union of workers in a corporation which operates in a free market, it isn't privetely owned.


    Class collaboration (Click to expand)
    Instead of class struggle; this is the reason fascism clashes with socialism, as fascism sees class struggle as a diversion from the struggle of nations.

    Fascism wishes to deconstruct the old classes - which is one of many areas where it clashes with conservatism - but then to create new classes, which collaborate to make the country better great again. There wouldn't be the bourgeoisie and the proletariate, but the many classes of workers under each corporation.


    Hierarchy (Click to expand)
    Fascists believe that no two people anywhere are exactly equal, let alone any more people than that. Naturally, they usually favour their country or race as superior to others; as such, fascists often acted in a socialist-like manner, but exclusively to their own citizens. Hence, fascism can be seen as left-wing to its own, and right-wing to others.

    This implicitly suggests militarist imperialism. Fascism sees life as a continual conflict between people for limited resources. To fascists, war let nations or races decide who got the planet's resources, in a Darwinian struggle for survival.

    Fascists applied biological concepts to constructs like nations and races. Virility, physical prowess and hierarchy were applied to these constructs, as well as notions like sickness and degeneration. Ideas of the "sickness" of a nation or race was what inspired many fascist regimes to resort to eugenics, and in some cases genocide.

    This is another reason why war was so important to fascists; it had a therapeutic effect on society: it destroyed the weak, and allowed the strong and healthy to thrive.


    Meritocracy (Click to expand)
    The idea that power should come with merit. This is where fascism abandons democracy. The idea is that workers progress inside the corporative through merit, and since each corporative is a part of government, the meritocracy actually produces political leaders.

    This leads to the rule of specialists. The leaders and representatives of each corporative (and consequently the government) would be specialists in their areas, not politicians.


    National Rebirth (Click to expand)
    A revolutionary desire to begin a rebirth of the Nation, and escaping the "destructive" influences of capitalism and communism.

    For example, Mussolini wanted to form a "New Roman Empire", while the Nazis initially wanted Germany to regain its former position in the world, as a "Great Power".


    Nationalism (Click to expand)
    Fascists seek social cohesiveness, through nationalism. Mussolini thought nationalism should happen through culturalism, while Hitler thought it should come through racialism. Fascists take nationalism far, essentially seeing other nations as competitors in the struggle for survival.

    It's worth pointing out that Germany and Italy didn't have the sense of "national/ethnic identity" that we as outsiders often ascribe to those nations today. They were relatively recently formed nation-states, and a political movement that emphasized nationalism likely carried some appeal as a means of paving over existing regional and ethno-linguistic differences and tensions.

    Fascists believe that people are fundamentally irrational, and their irrationality should be harnessed into action, e.g. using patriotism and leader idolisation as a means to get people thinking about the "greater good", rather than their own individual interests.

    This is the second way Fascism and Socialism clash. Fascism sees national loyalty as absolutely central, but orthodox Socialism believes that loyalty to the international movement of Communism should replace all other loyalties. As a result, Socialists came to see Fascists as lapdogs of the entrenched, conservative upper-classes, and Fascists saw Socialists as a threat to the integrity of the nation, and as a symptom of a decaying society they sought to replace.


    Purity (Click to expand)
    Fascism idolises purity; usually ethnic or cultural purity.There's an old saying: "If you put one drop of water in 5000 gallons of sewage, you have 5000 gallons of sewage. If you put one drop of sewage in 5000 gallons of water, you have 5000 gallons of sewage."That reaction to "even one drop" of impurity is one impulse that drives some people into fascism.



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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    The Front National has been for decades very consistent in their political agenda:
    They favor traditional French identity, they don't want it to change, and they see immigration as the root cause of France's problems.
    They consider that France has lost sovereignty, so they hate the EU and would like to leave it and get back to the former French Franc currency.
    They see the other political parties as a coalition of people serving their own interests against the interest of the French people, and assign them the responsibility for gradually destroying the French identity and nation.
    They position themselves as victims of these parties, since obviously in their rhetoric, the Front National is working for the French people, the other parties against.

    Going by the more reasonable definition of fascism (rather than the hyped-up 'far-right' definition):
    What is Fascism? (Click to expand)
    Tl;dr: Fascism is fundamentally nationalistic, militaristic, and modern, leaning toward somewhat - but distinct from - socialism (indeed, many leading Fascists were Socialists earlier in their life, such as Mussolini himself).

    Fascism is a relatively hard ideology to define; however, most fascist ideologies share the following core tenets:

    Autarky (Click to expand)
    Most fascists favour complete self-dependence of their state, and reject globalisation.


    Corporatism (Click to expand)
    The idea that the economical structure of the country should be regulated like a corpus (body), each section a corporative (not a corporation), which is a union of workers in a corporation which operates in a free market, it isn't privetely owned.


    Class collaboration (Click to expand)
    Instead of class struggle; this is the reason fascism clashes with socialism, as fascism sees class struggle as a diversion from the struggle of nations.

    Fascism wishes to deconstruct the old classes - which is one of many areas where it clashes with conservatism - but then to create new classes, which collaborate to make the country better great again. There wouldn't be the bourgeoisie and the proletariate, but the many classes of workers under each corporation.


    Hierarchy (Click to expand)
    Fascists believe that no two people anywhere are exactly equal, let alone any more people than that. Naturally, they usually favour their country or race as superior to others; as such, fascists often acted in a socialist-like manner, but exclusively to their own citizens. Hence, fascism can be seen as left-wing to its own, and right-wing to others.

    This implicitly suggests militarist imperialism. Fascism sees life as a continual conflict between people for limited resources. To fascists, war let nations or races decide who got the planet's resources, in a Darwinian struggle for survival.

    Fascists applied biological concepts to constructs like nations and races. Virility, physical prowess and hierarchy were applied to these constructs, as well as notions like sickness and degeneration. Ideas of the "sickness" of a nation or race was what inspired many fascist regimes to resort to eugenics, and in some cases genocide.

    This is another reason why war was so important to fascists; it had a therapeutic effect on society: it destroyed the weak, and allowed the strong and healthy to thrive.


    Meritocracy (Click to expand)
    The idea that power should come with merit. This is where fascism abandons democracy. The idea is that workers progress inside the corporative through merit, and since each corporative is a part of government, the meritocracy actually produces political leaders.

    This leads to the rule of specialists. The leaders and representatives of each corporative (and consequently the government) would be specialists in their areas, not politicians.


    National Rebirth (Click to expand)
    A revolutionary desire to begin a rebirth of the Nation, and escaping the "destructive" influences of capitalism and communism.

    For example, Mussolini wanted to form a "New Roman Empire", while the Nazis initially wanted Germany to regain its former position in the world, as a "Great Power".


    Nationalism (Click to expand)
    Fascists seek social cohesiveness, through nationalism. Mussolini thought nationalism should happen through culturalism, while Hitler thought it should come through racialism. Fascists take nationalism far, essentially seeing other nations as competitors in the struggle for survival.

    It's worth pointing out that Germany and Italy didn't have the sense of "national/ethnic identity" that we as outsiders often ascribe to those nations today. They were relatively recently formed nation-states, and a political movement that emphasized nationalism likely carried some appeal as a means of paving over existing regional and ethno-linguistic differences and tensions.

    Fascists believe that people are fundamentally irrational, and their irrationality should be harnessed into action, e.g. using patriotism and leader idolisation as a means to get people thinking about the "greater good", rather than their own individual interests.

    This is the second way Fascism and Socialism clash. Fascism sees national loyalty as absolutely central, but orthodox Socialism believes that loyalty to the international movement of Communism should replace all other loyalties. As a result, Socialists came to see Fascists as lapdogs of the entrenched, conservative upper-classes, and Fascists saw Socialists as a threat to the integrity of the nation, and as a symptom of a decaying society they sought to replace.


    Purity (Click to expand)
    Fascism idolises purity; usually ethnic or cultural purity.There's an old saying: "If you put one drop of water in 5000 gallons of sewage, you have 5000 gallons of sewage. If you put one drop of sewage in 5000 gallons of water, you have 5000 gallons of sewage."That reaction to "even one drop" of impurity is one impulse that drives some people into fascism.



    Hmmm, it's pretty hard to define it, but in my opinion it shouldn't be used given its historic connotation with Hitler and Mussolini. You can't conflate the likes of Le Pen with the barbaric mass genocide under those regimes.
 
 
 
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