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What type of politician is in the best position to combat the rise of far-right? Watch

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    (Original post by midnightice)
    Hmmm, it's pretty hard to define it, but in my opinion it shouldn't be used given its historic connotation with Hitler and Mussolini. You can't conflate the likes of Le Pen with the barbaric mass genocide under those regimes.
    Saying it shouldnt be used because of its connotations is undermining ideological similarities between Le Pen and Trump and Fascism.
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      (Original post by midnightice)
      Hmmm, it's pretty hard to define it, but in my opinion it shouldn't be used given its historic connotation with Hitler and Mussolini. You can't conflate the likes of Le Pen with the barbaric mass genocide under those regimes.
      And yet you are conflating fascism with Nazism. Yes I can compare the likes of Le Pen with Mussolini, because the two really are comparable. (FYI, Mussolini didn't commit genocide).

      I'm not trying to defend fascism, I'm trying to tell you why the rise of the 'far-right' is so concerning, because it really is the beginnings of a fascist reawakening.
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      (Original post by DirtyJesus)
      Saying it shouldnt be used because of its connotations is undermining ideological similarities between Le Pen and Trump and Fascism.
      If anything, Trump and Le Pen want to eradicate radical Islamic terrorism (a fascist-like ideology) from their country. They do say the new fascists will be the anti-fascists...but then you'll get caught up in a never-ending loop.
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      Someone who can unite the centrists and moderates.

      If they can do that they'll outnumber those on either extreme comfortably and gain power.
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      (Original post by Mathemagicien)
      And yet you are conflating fascism with Nazism. Yes I can compare the likes of Le Pen with Mussolini, because the two really are comparable. (FYI, Mussolini didn't commit genocide).

      I'm not trying to defend fascism, I'm trying to tell you why the rise of the 'far-right' is so concerning, because it really is the beginnings of a fascist reawakening.
      And you're conflating fascism with nationalism? Nazism has been often described as a prominent example of fascism anyway, and it really is a massive exaggeration to conflate it with far-right parties across Europe.

      The nationalist uprisings are troubling, but it's absurd to suggest it will lead to anything that extreme. Most of these parties are reactionary to the fascist-like ideology of radical Islamists, so one can argue they're anti-fascists, as I've mentioned above.
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        (Original post by midnightice)
        And you're conflating fascism with nationalism? Nazism has been often described as a prominent example of fascism anyway, and it really is a massive exaggeration to conflate it with far-right parties across Europe.

        The nationalist uprisings are troubling, but it's absurd to suggest it will lead to anything that extreme. Most of these parties are reactionary to the fascist-like ideology of radical Islamists, so one can argue they're anti-fascists, as I've mentioned above.
        Nazism is the most prominent example - and so what? Hitler is the most prominent German. Does that mean all Germans are nazis?

        Fascists in opposing groups are natural enemies. Pan-African fascism is opposed to Italian New Roman Empire-type fascism.

        The nationalist uprisings are the beginnings of a new type of fascism. Yes you bet they are troubling.
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        (Original post by midnightice)
        If anything, Trump and Le Pen want to eradicate radical Islamic terrorism (a fascist-like ideology) from their country. They do say the new fascists will be the anti-fascists...but then you'll get caught up in a never-ending loop.
        I see their anti-Islamic agenda as nothing but a tool to win votes as well as pushing their very nationalist agenda. Most terrorists are homegrown and not actually foreigners so more must be done to monitor and lock up suspected terrorists. Trump and Le Pen have been very focused on blaming the outside for their problems whilst not realising some of the biggest issues are domestic and closer to home.
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        (Original post by Mathemagicien)
        Nazism is the most prominent example - and so what? Hitler is the most prominent German. Does that mean all Germans are nazis?

        Fascists in opposing groups are natural enemies. Pan-African fascism is opposed to Italian New Roman Empire-type fascism.

        The nationalist uprisings are the beginnings of a new type of fascism. Yes you bet they are troubling.
        And what do you think this will actually lead to? The majority of people not wanting radical Islamists in their countries? Wanting managed and sensible immigration? Wanting a return to sovereign self-governing nation states co-operating on friendly terms with their neighbours? I agree that it is troublesome in inducing far-right supremacists like Breivik and their hateful attacks on minorities, but I don't see anything radical happening at state level.
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        (Original post by DirtyJesus)
        I see their anti-Islamic agenda as nothing but a tool to win votes as well as pushing their very nationalist agenda. Most terrorists are homegrown and not actually foreigners so more must be done to monitor and lock up suspected terrorists. Trump and Le Pen have been very focused on blaming the outside for their problems whilst not realising some of the biggest issues are domestic and closer to home.
        It is a populist tool (especially for Trump), but it does highlight some of the genuine problems with multiculturalism in some communities. It's quite sensible to not want mass immigration from countries associated with extremist ideologies, especially when it can lead to home-grown terrorism later down the line. Their external outlook is simply a statement of "no more", but if they looked internally, at actual communities responsible for the trouble, then that would be touchy territory and would not be pretty.
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        (Original post by midnightice)
        Most of these parties are reactionary to the fascist-like ideology of radical Islamists, so one can argue they're anti-fascists, as I've mentioned above.
        Agreed. Unite Against Fascism is a contradiction in terms. They are united in support of fascism. Islamofascism.

        All the same "fascism" is a very old fashioned term nowadays. It is redolent of the 1930's which is nearly a century ago.

        We need a new set of terms to describe the politics of today.

        What we are witnessing is singular and sui generis. It requires its own nomenclature...
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        (Original post by jambojim97)
        A leftist whose ideology is rooted in progressive class politics as opposed to regressive identity politics. Bernie Sanders sounds a solid option.
        You mean the very thing that created the populist uprising is the beat to combat it?

        Posted from TSR Mobile
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        (Original post by Jammy Duel)
        You mean the very thing that created the populist uprising is the beat to combat it?

        Posted from TSR Mobile
        No I don't mean that and don't know why you'd think that.
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        A tough, left winged liberal who geniuinley represents the minority and working class and doesn't just claim to do so. Someone who has enough balls to stand up to dictators and idiots like Trump and tell people as it is.
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        (Original post by AperfectBalance)
        the far right is not rising, conservatism is rising, if you think we are heading towards Fascism you are wrong.
        You still don't understand what fascism is. America is closer to Russia, China, Turkey than it is to the UK.
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        (Original post by Dodgypirate)
        Nonsense.

        The only group of people Sanders represented was the millennials. To win America you need the working class, as Trump proved.
        Myth.

        Trump lost bracket 0-100k.

        He won rust belt states by targeting them specifically, probably helped by the fact that they are more likely to succumb to populism anyway.
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        (Original post by yudothis)
        You still don't understand what fascism is. America is closer to Russia, China, Turkey than it is to the UK.
        Hahaha
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        (Original post by AperfectBalance)
        Hahaha
        Solid response.
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        (Original post by midnightice)
        Hmmm, it's pretty hard to define it, but in my opinion it shouldn't be used given its historic connotation with Hitler and Mussolini. You can't conflate the likes of Le Pen with the barbaric mass genocide under those regimes.
        You say it's pretty hard to define and yet in the same thought you define it as "barbaric mass genocide".

        Your logic furthermore also implies that one shouldn't call anything something, which has evil historic connotations.
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        (Original post by midnightice)
        If anything, Trump and Le Pen want to eradicate radical Islamic terrorism (a fascist-like ideology) from their country. They do say the new fascists will be the anti-fascists...but then you'll get caught up in a never-ending loop.
        Yes, it is in fact almost by definition fascist to eradicate other fascists. Nationalism is the stepping stone of fascism.

        Who is they? People who are fascists but know they can't admit it because that is bad? So they call themselves anti-fascists instead?
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        (Original post by jambojim97)
        A leftist whose ideology is rooted in progressive class politics as opposed to regressive identity politics. Bernie Sanders sounds a solid option.
        Ideally, yes. But how useful he'd be at combating someone like Trump is kind of a redundant point considering that most Americans view even light socialism as some kind of social disease. American politics, AFAIK, is way further right than our own.

        To what most Europeans would consider left-wing is almost a centrist position in America. At least, that's what I've been lead to believe. I'd happily be corrected. However, if that is so, then the lingering fear that the Red Scare has left in America still permeates society at some level, and so anyone who identifies as left-wing is essentially verbal cannon fodder for the Republicans and even some Democrats.

        It'd be great if America could start leaning way more towards progressive left politics, but I can't see that happening any time in the future (unless at the end of Trumps' term America is left so scarred by his politics that the American people realise that some kind of drastic change is required... but chances are a centrist Democrat will just get back in again and it'll be business as usual).
       
       
       
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