Can Asperger syndrome be cured?
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Original post by Tiger Rag
You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you? 15% of people with Autism are in employment. Employment is impossible for someone like me who can't cope with noise or large groups of people.
Oh, and it's not a "ridiculous syndrome" - how the hell do you explain most of the issues people with it have? And if it's "almost as if its an industry designed to sustain the careers of the sociology grads that end up in the pile of guff that is social work" - then how do you explain why very few have anything to do with social services? I don't and know plenty of others who don't.
Oh, and it's not a "ridiculous syndrome" - how the hell do you explain most of the issues people with it have? And if it's "almost as if its an industry designed to sustain the careers of the sociology grads that end up in the pile of guff that is social work" - then how do you explain why very few have anything to do with social services? I don't and know plenty of others who don't.
There's bound to be some hobby you can do that is worthwhile and potential even be remunerated for it. People can work around these issues. No doubt you could use some of your other talents to earn a few quid. Stranger things have happened, Hannah Witton is financially rewarded for endorsing promiscuity, so there is some hope...
Original post by DeHumanisation
Its rarer in BME because they are tribal people and work around it without relying on the confounded nanny state unlike the legions of wet white liberals that have an encyclopaedia for every benefit going.
Asperger syndrome in people of a non-western European (or more specifically a British / American / Canadian) background is not very well understood and much less research has been carried out with such people than with people from western European backgrounds.
It's also noteworthy that Asperger syndrome was a completely unrecognised condition by medics in the communist world before the fall of Berlin Wall and what is known today has come from the west since the 1990s. In all likelihood, people with Asperger syndrome would be sent to the gulag during the decades of communist rule.
I do not use, and despise, the term BME. It has no place in medicine or psychology.
Original post by jneill
Original post by Arran90
I have received reliable information about this. If a 9 to 14 year old with Asperger syndrome was referred to the NAS in 1990 then the NAS would have told them that they DO NOT have autism, and are therefore no more in need of the services of the NAS than a (neurotypical) blind person is. This is because the NAS in 1990 only focused on traditional low-functioning autism.
There's just no way that genetics have changed since the 1970s to cause a sharp rise in any medical condition.
Asperger syndrome is diagnosed by a psychologist using questions and answers and not by a DNA test.
There's just no way that genetics have changed since the 1970s to cause a sharp rise in any medical condition.
Asperger syndrome is diagnosed by a psychologist using questions and answers and not by a DNA test.
Okay to explain this in a better way I believe there two factors that play a major parts in autism
1. is genetic
2. is environmental
someone who is genetically autistic will always be genetically autistic. However there will likely always be a number of people who have autism who will never get diagnosed.
hopefully anyway which may sound like an absurd thing to say but I will explain why I say that later.
Okay so to start then at the age of 2 or 3 not sure which I was diagnosed with autism not aspergers autism, I know aspergers is a form of autism in many cases people call those with autism who appear bright aspergers and those that don't autistic. Whether that is or was the official line is more debatable but it is what was followed in practice in many cases.
They did not think I was high functioning autistic I was said to be delayed which was polite speak for retarded. I am not using that word metaphorically here . They literally assumed me retarded, and predicted I would never outgrow the mental age of 6. I was said to have an IQ below 35 I am told.
My mother just could not accept that and searched high and low across the country willing to listen to anybody really who could seem plausible she wanted to find hope not just write her child off.
Tried diets the no dairy or wheat thing etc. then she came across Beebee and Jeffery Walden (This relates to the Walden approach which is something sometimes referenced in psychology) for those that are unfamiliar with it and I am not an expert on it, it pretty much helps children with autism by getting them to experience practical and experimental development stages they may have missed out on.
The Walden approach is very effective was one of the biggest if not the biggest help to me overcoming the difficulties I had when I was younger I owe a lot to the Waldens.
over the years I developed and to the extent where I now have an IQ of 144 when last tested which is quite a jump. I still have autistic traits and am still autistic. When I was sitting practice papers recently I scored Cs then Low A grades however I noticed when I went over the papers that taking out silly mistakes or panic due to anxiety in quite a few cases I score full marks on the papers. the Anxiety is still linked to my autism so it still affects me. I still struggle to get dates etc as well.
However very few people today would recognize me as autistic if I went to get assessed now without my prior medical background I may well not get an autistic diagnosis and there are others who are genetically autistic who would not meet the conditions to be diagnosed.
It is not that they were mis diagnosed to begin with, it is that they developed to such an extent that autism no longer hinders them enough to be easily detectable or stop them from succeeding. there is a reason that I usually choose to identify as autistic rather then aspergers despite the fact they changed the diagnosis to aspergers at a later stage.
generally speaking it is normal for autistic to refer to low functioning autism and apsergers to refer to high functioning autism. I am now considered high functioning I was not always. People want to put this down to mis diagnosis I wont have that I saw directly how the Walden approach and other interventions helped me develop and I know for a fact if I had not received that help I would not have developed and would still be considered profoundly handicapped probably institutionalized by now.
This is why despite me appearing arrogant and elitist you will notice that often I refer to myself as autistic not aspergers I don't always but i try to and usually do. The reason been Is I do not believe I was high functioning but mis diagnosed I believe had I not gotten the appropriate help I would still be considered low functioning.
For me if I identify as Asperger I then let down my entire group implying tactility that I was just always high functioning and those that are low functioning always will be when in fact I believe for a very large number had they, or if they got the right help they could be functioning perfectly fine. sufficient to be able to support themselves independently and not be immediately detectable.
Now something I have noticed about self and is reported in autism quite a bit. Autism has in the past been referred to as "extreme resistance to change" this is satirized by a character many may be familiar with Sheldon Cooper from Big bang. I don't think the character was intended to be autistic but he does exhibit quite a few well known autistic character traits. Such as always having to sit in the same spot and get the same takeaway and a few other eccentricities. I find that when something is unfamiliar I get anxious and I have always found that it used to be a lot worse.
for example one time when I was working for a company that supplied cleaners waiters and kitchen porters on an as needed basis to business we were sent to an work at a cricket ground as waiters in the luxury or upscale whatever its called boxes. These catered to rich people and were meant to be prestigious. We had to be follow strict protocols plates cups glasses were all to go in a certain way with waiters coming in unison in a certain way, going through specific doors and out other specific doors. there were a lot of rules and methods to follow. It wasn't particularly complicated but it was all unfamiliar so I got very anxious at the time and the whole thing suddenly seemed like rocket science.
On other occasions I have panicked at work when the software been used was changed to something I was unfamiliar with.
so this affects me still but over time I have realized the weakness and developed coping mechanisms to function better.
Now take this back and imagine a small Child or toddler when the unfamiliar is not laying table in a fancy restaurant or prestigious box at a cricket ground but the unfamiliar is going to the toilet and been potty trained or learning to dress one self. If it is learning basic English etc etc. they get to anxious so push it aside as it is unfamiliar thus they never develop the first stages and do not develop the later stages this is what almost happened to me and would have had it not been for my mother and the Waldens.
In the past we had a very disciplined and structured society compared to what we had today so children were forced to comply and there were more logical consistent rules and behaviors for society.
so the inhibiting character traits that people whom were genetically autistic had were not as inhibiting as they are today. My parents took a disciplinarian attitude and I am not saying that is the only way but it certainly helped me develop. I remember when I was taken to see the Waldens every week I hated the exercises they used to make me do. one was putting wooden bricks in buckets not sure how that is supposed to help but like I said I started to improve dramatically right from the start with them so I am guessing they knew what they were doing.
I used to refuse to corporate and tried to rebel they used grab my arm and physically force me to do it.
If someone did that today it would likely be considered a form of child abuse, I would have serious disagreements with anyone who wanted to accuse the Waldens of that, they were instrumental in changing my life for the better. I was against them as a child because this stuff was unfamiliar and it made me very anxious, I needed to learn this stuff though to develop, and needed to confront my anxiety.
If intervention happens at the right stage and help is received in the right ways then those with autism can develop to the extent that they are able to be self dependent functioning members of society with the autism not been immediately noticeable to the majority of people.
If you call this a cure then I would say Autism can be cured, but those with autism will always be genetically autistic and will still have the autistic character traits they just would have developed to a stage where those traits are no longer a significant hindrance.
All this relates to why Autism rates have been going up, if someone is genetically autistic but they never develop problems and adapt to things fine they may potentially never get diagnosed even though they always were autistic because they never stood out and it was never seen as needed.
however in a less disciplined and less structured society the negative parts of autism become more of a hindrance meaning for more individuals who are genetically autistic they are more likely to have issues to such an extent that warrants and attracts a diagnosis. combine this with political correctness eg "he has autism he cant help it" etc etc and this is why the autism rates are exploding.
This is why I say hopefully their will always be a group of children who never get diagnosed because too often I have heard parents or people of authority in child care eg teachers or social workers say he cant help it he is autistic. so rather then force the younger children with autism to face their anxiety and get the right intervention which would mitigate the challenges and help the child develop they exacerbate the problem.
If they could screen the child and recognized and fully accepted the points I make here Ubiquitously then I would be hoping they can detect it in every child and put the appropriate care and development plan in place.
What I fear though is that if they could do this they would always say he can't help it he is autistic encouraging every genetically autistic child never to tackle the issues with anxiety and resistance to change and thus resulting in substantially more people with serious challenges due to autism.
Original post by Kallisto
That is so true and sad. Have experienced that first-hand. But worse than that is the hypocrisy of these people who are the part of this society. When I have integrated myself by accepting societie's customs, these people who had problems to accept me before did that at once. Gave a **** to them, began to ignore these people and even to scorn instead. Just because I considered that as an pathetic behaviour of themselves. But have given those people a chance who don't know me as an asperger in the past.
Unfortunately, most parents don’t want a problem child at school, at home, or out in public. Words often can’t describe the stress and the heartache children with Asperger syndrome can cause for their parents and wider society. I have met many children with Asperger syndrome and their parents so I know this all too well.
Teenagers and adults with Asperger syndrome also want to be cured if they are unhappy or unsuccessful (in things that matter) if they think it’s the result of having Asperger syndrome.
Original post by Arran90
Unfortunately, most parents don’t want a problem child at school, at home, or out in public. Words often can’t describe the stress and the heartache children with Asperger syndrome can cause for their parents and wider society. I have met many children with Asperger syndrome and their parents so I know this all too well.
Teenagers and adults with Asperger syndrome also want to be cured if they are unhappy or unsuccessful (in things that matter) if they think it’s the result of having Asperger syndrome.
Teenagers and adults with Asperger syndrome also want to be cured if they are unhappy or unsuccessful (in things that matter) if they think it’s the result of having Asperger syndrome.
The same drama happened in the past of mine. My father had problems to accept me, my mother was different instead. She loved me without condition, unfortunately she was incapable of winnning out over my father. She was a loveable person, if I think back.
Nonetheless, I did it in my way, despite the hardships, despite the pathetic people around me.
Original post by Tiger Rag
Having issues with understanding language, needing routine and having sensory issues isn't a personality difference.
Educate yourself. Seriously.
Educate yourself. Seriously.
Yo Tiger, I think this guy is just trying to troll you
Original post by jneill
Then why doesn't everyone have Aspergers?
This relates to #32
Reading a book and carrying out mathematical work is a mechanical process. Reading people is a deductive process.
The parent's theory is that if children focus on mechanical processes at too young an age then the brain wires itself into functioning in a mechanical way. If children focus on deductive processes at a young age then the brain wires itself into functioning in a deductive way.
Therefore the children at the nursery who are unable to read a book are instead reading people and wiring their brains to recognise body language and non-verbal communication. The son with Asperger syndrome who could read books and do simple sums already had a brain wired to function in a mechanical way which inhibited his ability to read people.
An interesting finding about the son with Asperger syndrome is that when he was studying for his mathematics GCSE he found algebra very easy but he found advanced topics in Euclidean geometry such as circle theorems difficult. Some solidly neurotypical classmates found circle theorems easier than algebra. This sheds some light on the fact that the brain of a person with Asperger syndrome is more mechanical than deductive.
In the light of this information.
The parent adopted a very bold strategy for her son with Asperger syndrome. His academic education was put on hold for a year during Year 6 by taking him out of school. He would instead spend time working on social skills and people centric activities. Books, computers, and introverted type hobbies were strictly time limited. The effects were very positive and it prepared the son very well for life at secondary school that another year of primary school would not do.
Original post by Arran90
The effects were very positive and it prepared the son very well for life at secondary school that another year of primary school would not do.
So, not "cured" then.
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Original post by jneill
So not "cured" then.
Not fully but the physical training exercises fixed him physically.
At the end of Year 5 he was a noticeably physically unco-ordinated kid as well as having Asperger syndrome. He had poor body awareness and walked with a clumsy gait; was useless at team sports; couldn't run properly; couldn't ride a bike.
At the start of Year 7 his physical co-ordination was very good and he had no problems in PE lessons like he had in primary school. The poor body awareness and clumsy gait was no more; he could run fast and ride a bike; he played basketball as good as any other kids.
This implies that it's technically possible to rewire a brain.
Although some Asperger traits still persisted even after he finished secondary school the ugliest and most noticeable had vanished by then. Putting his academic education on hold for a year was seen as a controversial, if not downright foolhardy, move by his teachers, the Local Authority officials, and even classmates and their parents but the results were positive.
Original post by Arran90
Officially there is no cure for Asperger syndrome although instances of people who have cured themselves are known to exist. Those who have cured themselves usually do so around the age of 18 to 22. I don't know of any instances above the age of 25.
I have met a couple of these people. They come across as clearly neurotypical but they have documentary proof that they once had Asperger syndrome. Unfortunately I have not met them whilst they were younger to get an idea of what they were like back then.
What is interesting is that neither of them were high academic achievers at school or had particularly good GCSE grades.
It makes me wonder whether Asperger syndrome is genetic or caused by some other factor which is reversible.
I have met a couple of these people. They come across as clearly neurotypical but they have documentary proof that they once had Asperger syndrome. Unfortunately I have not met them whilst they were younger to get an idea of what they were like back then.
What is interesting is that neither of them were high academic achievers at school or had particularly good GCSE grades.
It makes me wonder whether Asperger syndrome is genetic or caused by some other factor which is reversible.
No, autism can't be cured
Original post by DanF2000
I've been diagnosed with it for a year and the doctors at my nearest hospital say it's something I'll just have to live with: not curable.
Do you really believe everything that NHS doctors tell you?
The NHS has a poor knowledge of certain medical and psychological conditions.
Original post by Arran90
Do you really believe everything that NHS doctors tell you?
The NHS has a poor knowledge of certain medical and psychological conditions.
The NHS has a poor knowledge of certain medical and psychological conditions.
Well, I've had it my whole life (just didn't realise) and considering that, I feel like I'm going to have it for the rest of my life. And around 35 million people in the world today have it so I'm pretty sure the NHS would know about it.
Original post by DanF2000
And around 35 million people in the world today have it so I'm pretty sure the NHS would know about it.
You are wrong. Experience has revealed that experts in Asperger syndrome in the NHS are diamonds in the dust. There are plenty of mediocre psychologists when it comes to Asperger syndrome but they won't tell you much more than popular books on the subject will tell you.
Like the mainstream education system designed for an average child, the NHS is designed for people with more common medical conditions. It isn't a particularly progressive organisation and it's philosophy is to do well at providing treatments and services for more traditional and established branches of medicine than to branch out into new treatments and services for newer medical conditions. There is also the argument that as Asperger syndrome is not a life threatening condition then it takes second priority over conditions that are life threatening. If spending cuts have to be made then Asperger syndrome will face the axe before critical care does.
The real strength of the NHS is its ambulance service (possibly the best in the world) and (despite its 10 hour waits) accident and emergency, In contrast, psychology services are very much hit and miss when it comes to recently recognised conditions like Asperger syndrome. A NHS psychologist will tell you that there is no cure for Asperger syndrome. This could be interpreted that there is no cure on the NHS for Asperger syndrome and the NHS isn't interested in researching and developing a cure for Asperger syndrome.
Experiences of people I have known have revealed that the NHS is not very good at offering advice for medical conditions where the treatment provider is private and a similar service is not available on the NHS. One such instance of this was a person trying to find out the pros and cons of laser treatment for myopia - a service not offered on the NHS. The NHS consultants were unhelpful and one was very rude.
Original post by Arran90
Do you really believe everything that NHS doctors tell you?
The NHS has a poor knowledge of certain medical and psychological conditions.
The NHS has a poor knowledge of certain medical and psychological conditions.
And your knowledge is much better, is it? And do you have a link to this cure? Isn't it funny how no-one else knows about this supposed cure? One of the first things I was told by both the GP who referred me and the psychiatrist who diagnosed me was that there was no cure.
I find it odd that everyone in this thread is telling you that a cure is non-exist. And if there was a cure, I'm sure that the NHS and the other countries around the world would know about it.
Original post by Arran90
Asperger syndrome in people of a non-western European (or more specifically a British / American / Canadian) background is not very well understood and much less research has been carried out with such people than with people from western European backgrounds.
It's also noteworthy that Asperger syndrome was a completely unrecognised condition by medics in the communist world before the fall of Berlin Wall and what is known today has come from the west since the 1990s. In all likelihood, people with Asperger syndrome would be sent to the gulag during the decades of communist rule.
I do not use, and despise, the term BME. It has no place in medicine or psychology.
It's also noteworthy that Asperger syndrome was a completely unrecognised condition by medics in the communist world before the fall of Berlin Wall and what is known today has come from the west since the 1990s. In all likelihood, people with Asperger syndrome would be sent to the gulag during the decades of communist rule.
I do not use, and despise, the term BME. It has no place in medicine or psychology.
When you say that it has no place in medicine/psychology is that because you don't like the term itself or because you feel that a discussion of culture has no place in medicine/psychology?
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Original post by Tiger Rag
And your knowledge is much better, is it? And do you have a link to this cure? Isn't it funny how no-one else knows about this supposed cure? One of the first things I was told by both the GP who referred me and the psychiatrist who diagnosed me was that there was no cure.
I find it odd that everyone in this thread is telling you that a cure is non-exist. And if there was a cure, I'm sure that the NHS and the other countries around the world would know about it.
I find it odd that everyone in this thread is telling you that a cure is non-exist. And if there was a cure, I'm sure that the NHS and the other countries around the world would know about it.
If a doctor is told that there is no cure for a medical condition in the training that they receive then they will be inclined to believe it then close their minds as to the possibility of a cure unless they have knowledge of people or organisations who are working on a cure. There is no research taking place in the NHS for a cure for Asperger syndrome. It's not a life threatening condition. It's uncommon. Therefore it isn't deemed viable use of the taxpayer's money.
End result. It's convenient for NHS doctors and psychologists to say that there is no cure then send the patient home.
Original post by bullettheory
When you say that it has no place in medicine/psychology is that because you don't like the term itself or because you feel that a discussion of culture has no place in medicine/psychology?
Because it lumps a diverse selection of people into what is handled as a single homogeneous mass. BME basically means anything but white European.
In medicine genetics is more important than ethnicity, culture, or religion when it comes to matters like medical conditions or the matching of transplant organs.
Culture plays a large part in psychology although the official classification of ethnic groups as set out by the CRE in the 1980s is now hopelessly inadequate in today's society.
If your - or this 'local Asperger syndrome support group's' - theory about education playing a major role in the 'development' of Asperger's in a child is true, then why do my two much less academic brothers have it and I don't? The one that was diagnosed first was much more interested in playing with (or also trying to and failing) other children than any school work. He was slower to learn how to read and write than me and didn't learn to tell the time until he was 10 or something. I preferred being on my own and studying. He was the only one of us that wanted to go outside and make friends with other children all the time (even if he wasn't always or even necessarily usually successful). I was more of a loner than him.
He's now in his 20s and still just as autistic in his social abilities/difficulties, mannerisms, ways of expressing himself, proneness to stress etc. He was never pushed very hard; it was a struggle for my parents to get him to do any homework and they only really tried when his teachers complained a lot. He liked video games and socialising more than any of us did. I liked schoolwork and similar activities.
Most of this thread is anecdotal, including my post, so it doesn't really prove anything... But still.
He's now in his 20s and still just as autistic in his social abilities/difficulties, mannerisms, ways of expressing himself, proneness to stress etc. He was never pushed very hard; it was a struggle for my parents to get him to do any homework and they only really tried when his teachers complained a lot. He liked video games and socialising more than any of us did. I liked schoolwork and similar activities.
Most of this thread is anecdotal, including my post, so it doesn't really prove anything... But still.
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