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    Just on one of your initial points about the eastern bloc having a monopoly over 'blue collar' work. There's a reason they are there. LOW WAGES. MNC's are obviously going to move to the regions where labour is cheapest. If you want a traditional 'blue collar' job go there and see how bad the pay, conditions and general health and safety is over there. Theres a reason you see many eastern europeans migrate here, because its better! I'm sure we would all do the same if we didnt have the benefit of being born here, its only natural.
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    (Original post by MachinesCradle)
    As is South Korea, another highly developed nation. I fail to see the problem.
    I'd argue that anywhere with high amounts of racism is not "highly developed".
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    That would be fine, but the reason they're employing the migrants is because the natives don't want the jobs.
    That's a oft-quoted fallacy, are you telling me people leaving school wouldn't want a job, any job, to get them on the ladder?











    (Original post by Drewski)



    They've lived their lives being told they're too good to work menial jobs, that everybody should go to university, that they'll get a great job and won't need to work down t'pit like their parents / grandparents did, or that is only a matter of time before they'll get 'found' on a talent show, or be on a reality TV show and live the celebrity lifestyle.
    Well, we're talking hypothetically as the jobs aren't available, BUT if they were; how do we guage if British kids in general are as good or worse than performing the job? Maybe if we somehow "created" jobs (as the government keep promising they'll do) they'd have a chance to prove or disprove they're lazy, and if they're not we wouldn't require the extra workforce therefore we'd have less strain on public services. AND that good ol' British work ethic I know is still lingering since we won two world wars, we just can't harness it because Lukas and Marius have swallowed up the jobs>


    The jobs need doing, but they don't want to do them.



    (Original post by Drewski)
    And you don't need training to do the menial jobs. That's kinda the point of them. So why would you train school leavers (who now will all be 18, no more 16 year olds going off into work) to do something that a monkey could?
    That's where apprenticeships come in.
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    As far as I'm aware most of the non-white non-British population comes from Commonwealth countries and you have your ancestors to thank for that.

    As to Poles taking your jobs, they get them because they are willing to take them. British youth is too good to work on construction sites or wash dishes for a restaurant.
    As a matter of fact, theres high unemployment rate in Poland and young Poles are complaining about Ukrainians and Arabs coming and 'stealing their job', where the truth is most of them is too lazy to do a job a Ukrainian or Arabic person is willing to take.
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    (Original post by MachinesCradle)
    This is no reason to introduce immigration which would contaminate ethnic Japanese culture. Japan will be automating a lot of industry with robotics in the coming years which will reduce the work hours allowing better management of social security.
    If you're willing to put so much faith into the future, more power to you. With one in five people being at risk of death from overwork, that would be Japan's only hope. It would definitely not be the most efficient way of going about it.

    As with regards to the UK, there already are huge opportunities available to UK individuals. The problem at hand is culture, not the lack of opportunities. A gap year is more than enough to realize how many opportunities an individual has. Opportunities few take up because of a 'bad' culture.

    So then I suppose the whole issue boils down to whether one thinks it proper to spoil unskilled workers unwilling to work and/or improve. Simply spoiling the British unskilled workforce without trying to change the culture for the better could be rather disastrous.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    I'd argue that anywhere with high amounts of racism is not "highly developed".
    As I have stated elsewhere on this forum today nothing wrong with a bit of xenophobia as long as it is productively preserving the home nations' identity, as I just don't feel like I live in the UK anymore for one
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    Danny the Geezer makes important and salient points. There is a large swathe of the white working class population who have been systematically failed by governments of both sides, and feel alienated in their own country - they've been totally passed over in favour of liberal claptrap on 'inclusivity' and 'diversity'. Not only is it grossly unfair and unjust, it is fertile soil into which the seed of extreme politics can be sown - we're seeing it all over Europe.

    Surely a government which comprehensively fails to look after its own people is a government which has failed.
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    (Original post by Danny the Geezer)
    As I have stated elsewhere on this forum today nothing wrong with a bit of xenophobia as long as it is productively preserving the home nations' identity, as I just don't feel like I live in the UK anymore for one
    'Nothing wrong with a bit of xenophobia...' ffs, I thought we were having a productive conversation.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    It's also - once you leave the tourist cities - quite racist.
    As bad as that seems as an outsider i'd suggest that if the UK were ethnically pure, wealthy and still embraced a lot of its cultural heritage that most people would consider racist sentiment a price worth paying.
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    (Original post by ItsRoger)
    'Nothing wrong with a bit of xenophobia...' ffs, I thought we were having a productive conversation.
    I notice you quote me out of context, interesting.
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    (Original post by Danny the Geezer)
    That's a oft-quoted fallacy, are you telling me people leaving school wouldn't want a job, any job, to get them on the ladder?

    Yes. Because they don't. They haven't done for years. It's oft-quoted because it's true. The jobs exist, why else would people be doing them?

    Well, we're talking hypothetically as the jobs aren't available, BUT if they were; how do we guage if British kids in general are as good or worse than performing the job? Maybe if we somehow "created" jobs (as the government keep promising they'll do) they'd have a chance to prove or disprove they're lazy, and if they're not we wouldn't require the extra workforce therefore we'd have less strain on public services. AND that good ol' British work ethic I know is still lingering since we won two world wars, we just can't harness it because Lukas and Marius have swallowed up the jobs>

    Their aptitude at the jobs is not in question. They're menial, anyone can do them.

    A new Amazon warehouse has opened in Manchester. Loads of jobs going. I'll bet you that the vast majority of the people picking the stock there end up being foreign, simply because Brits think that kind of job is beneath them.


    The jobs need doing, but they don't want to do them.

    That's where apprenticeships come in.
    That's not the same thing. You really think you're going to get an 18yr old who's just got his Alevels to do an apprenticeship in picking vegetables?!

    (Original post by Danny the Geezer)
    As I have stated elsewhere on this forum today nothing wrong with a bit of xenophobia as long as it is productively preserving the home nations' identity, as I just don't feel like I live in the UK anymore for one
    I live in the same city you do. You're talking nonsense.
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    (Original post by Danny the Geezer)
    I notice you quote me out of context, interesting.
    What is the identity of Britian for you? A population made up of solely white ethinically british people working in manufacturing? Because if that is the cost of 'preserving the home nations identity' you're going to end up with a country much worse than it is today.
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    (Original post by Danny the Geezer)
    Hmm well 5-10 years ago we had tons of vacant properties where I live in what were mostly-white areas now they are no vacant properties and the areas are either non-white majorities or becoming increasingly so.
    Well I don't disagree at all that mass immigration has affected / caused this crisis. I just want to stress that, objectively, foreigners are not treated any differently by councils. Now its quite possible that in certain areas foreigners are much poorer and in worse situations and therefore more likely to apply for social housing or need it (e.g. if they have large families and overcrowding their house). and therefore they as a demographic happen to be in more social housing than native britons.

    I just want to assure you that they have to meet the same requirements as everyone else, and are not given any special treatment based on where they're from.
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    (Original post by Danny the Geezer)
    As I have stated elsewhere on this forum today nothing wrong with a bit of xenophobia as long as it is productively preserving the home nations' identity, as I just don't feel like I live in the UK anymore for one
    You could just be honest about it and admit that you believe the role of the government is to spoil its unskilled workforce of the same nationality (and I'm guessing, same ethnicity) regardless of economics. The unskilled in the UK already have plenty of opportunities, as any university gap year would tell you. Qualifications, many minimum wage jobs, apprenticeships, etc. What is lacking is ambition and a work drive.

    If one is incapable of academic work and as such does not take advantage of the immense university-level government funding, and is then unwilling to take up a minimum wage job which allows them to live a decent life (without many extravaganzas), he does not deserve it any better. And you envy foreigners who would be more than happy with that minimum wage many British individuals feel they are 'above'. You want the economy to take a massive hit just so that lazy unskilled British individuals have a easier time. And I guess that's a legitimate point of view to hold, if you are a national socialist.

    You sure do sound awfully (overly) socialistic. It's just that you seem to be of the national socialist sort, as in the government should be a loving socialist nanny state only to people of the local ethnicity and nationality.
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    I agree but don't use that phrase as it is what the killer of Joe Cox said
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    (Original post by Caius Filimon)
    You could just be honest about it and admit that you believe the role of the government is to spoil its unskilled workforce of the same nationality (and I'm guessing, same ethnicity) regardless of economics. The unskilled in the UK already have plenty of opportunities, as any university gap year would tell you. Qualifications, many minimum wage jobs, apprenticeships, etc. What is lacking is ambition and a work drive.

    If one is incapable of academic work and as such does not take advantage of the immense university-level government funding, and is then unwilling to take up a minimum wage job which allows them to live a decent life (without many extravaganzas), he does not deserve it any better. And you envy foreigners who would be more than happy with that minimum wage many British individuals feel they are 'above'. You want the economy to take a massive hit just so that lazy unskilled British individuals have a easier time. And I guess that's a legitimate point of view to hold, if you are a national socialist.

    You sure do sound awfully (overly) socialistic. It's just that you seem to be of the national socialist sort, as in the government should be a loving socialist nanny state only to people of the local ethnicity and nationality.
    A minimum wage job allows you to live a decent life? What planet are you living on? now it might be easier to live on a low wage if we didn't have a housing crisis exacerbated by mass immigration, hmm?
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    (Original post by Danny the Geezer)
    Most young British people of my demographic - white (yes, seems the tables have turned) young, , "working class", Northern, males, don't stand a cat in hells chance in society these days because the liberal left wants to shout down the so called right. It hasn't worked evidently, given Trump's victory and Brexit.

    British jobs/benefits/hosing for British people. Great Britain!
    The likes of Trump, the Conservative party and UKIP do not care about the poor disenfranchised "working class" (whether they are in or out of work), and especially not the homeless.

    They want their votes and so they appeal to them with populist slogans against immigrants and against the EU but do you think once they achieve their dream of getting rid of immigrants, that they are really going to care about the left behind British?

    No they will argue for getting rid of employment protections, saying that these create unemployment, and probably to reduce or scrap the minimum wage, and they will want to cut benefits and reduce access to benefits, sell off social housing. They will happily see the poor disenfranchised British being forced in to insecure job contracts on pitiful wages same as the immigrants are doing now, locked out of the housing market apart from when they pay constantly rising rents to keep the landlord class rich, and when immigration is less of an issue they will make the poor British as the scapegoat group, mocking them as scroungers and dossers who are draining the taxes of those just above them, so they can appeal to the middle classes and lower middle classes votes.

    The people that do actually care about the low paid, the unemployed and the homeless are Jeremy Corbyn, Labour, the Greens, the trade unions. The approach of the rich right wing elites is to appeal to populist anti-immigrant slogans to peel away the votes of the poor from the parties that would actually put their interests first.
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    (Original post by MachinesCradle)
    As is South Korea, another highly developed nation. I fail to see the problem.
    Don't forget Scandinvaia! Also here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11559451
    And of course https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=382njADcWvE
    Annnnnddd https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kNQ1a-mQOLk
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    (Original post by Danny the Geezer)

    But really now - enough of these rallying cries for refugees to be welcome.

    What about the disenfranchised working class, mostly youth, of the UK who cares about them?

    Look at the youth unemployment rate. Look how the Eastern Bloc countries have a monopoly on manual blue collar jobs; surely if we trained more British school leavers and gave them a purpose it would stop them going down the wrong path, a wage coming in, a purpose at least? But no we give the factory jobs to the Poles.
    Even the fruit picking jobs which were once a British student staple summer job - a lot of Polish/Czechs. All the Mcdonalds where I live, all Bengalis and goodness knows what, but it'd be fine if they could even speak English well but a lot can't.

    So then, on to housing, the rough sleeping situation in Manchester and London and no doubt most major UK cities and towns is ridiculous, no, disgusting - most of them are British guys too, so someone is getting the social housing (I myself am on the social housing list atm, the place where I'm staying has a lot of Arab/Syrian families).

    When are we going to create a first come first served policy on social housing based on what you've contributed and how long you've contributed for, same goes for benefits there should be a minimum time lapse before you claim of the state.

    Most young British people of my demographic - white (yes, seems the tables have turned) young, , "working class", Northern, males, don't stand a cat in hells chance in society these days because the liberal left wants to shout down the so called right. It hasn't worked evidently, given Trump's victory and Brexit.

    British jobs/benefits/hosing for British people. Great Britain!
    Why are you blaming refugees? Do you understand what a refugee is?

    Refugees arent to blame for youth unemployment. We take 30-40,000 asuylum seekes and about 45% of those each year will be granted refugee status. We give refuge to people who have fled persecution because we have a legal obligation to do so in light of the international agreemenwts we have signed. There are good reasons its in the UKs interest to take refugees for political and forein policy as well as humanitarian reasons.

    Refugees arent to blame for youth unemployment. That is down to the economy amd people nopt having the right skills for the jobs available. You confuse refugees with general economic migrants. Do you know the difference? poles arent refugees.

    They also arent to blame if you havent acquired the right skills in the education system. Blame yourself or the school system.

    If you resnt them having jobs at McDonalds why cant you compete? As you say they cnat speak the language, surely that puts you at an advantage?

    Refugees arent to blame for the shortage of housing. Blame that on governments for selling off and not building enough housing or the fact that houses are so expensive and people cant afford them. You can still get private rented accommodation so theres no reason you have to sleep on the streets. Many homeless are there because they have got lost in the benefits system or have additional issues such as drugs, acoholism and mental health issues.

    Asylum seekers get no advantage other than a place to stay in what iis often very poor accommodation. Once granted refugee status, then they go on the housing list like everyone else. Benefits and housing are based on need. Unfortunately as a healthy single male then your needs come behind someone with young children. Blame the government if you want more houses built.

    Work hard at school, go to Uni or college get trained up and get a good job is the path to follow. Its got nothing to do with refugees. There is no reason why a country as wealthy and powerful as the UK can't deal with these issues. Compared to other countries we take relatively few refugees compared to our size. You are scapegoating the wrong people.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    I'd argue that anywhere with high amounts of racism is not "highly developed".
    So japan and korea are not developed countries? Are you being serious?

    Every country has its own cultural attitudes... I am sure there are many British values and ideas and tendencies that people from other countries might find disgusting. doesn't make us non developed.
 
 
 
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