Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Gwilym101)
    It's also a country where people literally live to work, famously many people work themselves to death, and it also had major investment by foreign powers after WW2. That might have something to do with it.
    The Japanese discipline and work ethos is commendable. If only we had the same attitude our streets would be a lot cleaner.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by themodsaretouchy)
    To our knowledge we have 450 ISIS members in the UK
    Source??
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Nirvana1989-1994)
    Me too.
    Until I actually read it .
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Google22)
    Without immigration, UK would be in a catastrophe. The NHS would be a complete wreck.

    UK needs immigration, but at a controlled level. That I agree with.

    Letting in refugees for the sake of them being refugees is not the way to go. Some level of control must be needed.

    It's not racist or whatever to say that UK needs immigration control.
    It's just common sense.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    really? any evidence to show that we would be unable to train our own NHS workers?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ItsRoger)
    Source??
    Take your pick

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=45...obile&ie=UTF-8
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Treeroy)
    really? any evidence to show that we would be unable to train our own NHS workers?
    In terms of the two most fundamental staff, nurses and doctors, I think we would definitely be severely understaffed in the short to medium term in the NHS. There was a debate in the commons about this and I think it takes around 10 years to begin seeing differences when opening new university places for medicine. As for nurses there is constant and large demand for them across the nhs so yeah we would be. The only source I have is when Mr Hunt was announcing these new positions and they were talking about it in the news.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ItsRoger)
    In terms of the two most fundamental staff, nurses and doctors, I think we would definitely be severely understaffed in the short to medium term in the NHS. There was a debate in the commons about this and I think it takes around 10 years to begin seeing differences when opening new university places for medicine. As for nurses there is constant and large demand for them across the nhs so yeah we would be. The only source I have is when Mr Hunt was announcing these new positions and they were talking about it in the news.
    I know that currently we have lots of foreign nurses but honestly I do not believe we are lacking people willing to do those jobs. If they gave NHS workers proper liveable working hours and pay, and provided the schemes to train people, it would not be a problem. I am not suggesting kicking all the foreign nurses out and starting from scratch, but phasing the immigration out.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    So 450 people went to Syria and came back to the UK. Many of them undertook trials and 75 were found guilty of helping terror organisations. Seems to me there are 75 ISIS members and they're all in jail??
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Why are you blaming refugees? Do you understand what a refugee is?

    Refugees arent to blame for youth unemployment. We take 30-40,000 asuylum seekes and about 45% of those each year will be granted refugee status. We give refuge to people who have fled persecution because we have a legal obligation to do so in light of the international agreemenwts we have signed. There are good reasons its in the UKs interest to take refugees for political and forein policy as well as humanitarian reasons.
    45% of 40k is still an extra load, now, with people protesting en masse and social/mass media projecting this like it's a worthwhile cause (rather than a futile one, because America's immigration system has nothing to do with the UKs); are those figures going to increase as the years go by because being "pro-migration" is seen as as the "right" thing to do? Where we going to house these new arrivals? Will we support them financially? What about the ones that slip through the net aka go AWOL who then go on to commit crimes etc? Why, more importantly, do we sign these treaties and deals when there are many safe countries closer to the refugees' homes where houses can be built and they can live and work ?




    (Original post by 999tigger)
    If you resnt them having jobs at McDonalds why cant you compete? As you say they cnat speak the language, surely that puts you at an advantage?
    Not me personally but my kids. And if they can't speak the lingo they shouldn't be in a customer facing job, end of,


    [QUOTE=999tigger;69874296]
    Refugees arent to blame for the shortage of housing. Blame that on governments for selling off and not building enough housing or the fact that houses are so expensive and people cant afford them. You can still get private rented accommodation so theres no reason you have to sleep on the streets. Many homeless are there because they have got lost in the benefits system or have additional issues such as drugs, acoholism and mental health issues.


    OK now where are you going to find a deposit/maintain payments on a private rent if you have no money and there are no jobs available to earn sufficient money?
    Homeless people aren't on the streets because they get lost in the benefits system (which opens up a whole new can of worms itself), housing benefit would in theory cover your rent but there is a shortage of social housing in the first place to allocate, (like I say my city has become very culturally diverse in like even the last 2-3 years, ever more so and the social housing ladder you've got no chance as a single guy with no kids (if you were a refugee family. on the other hand.) And mental healh problems and addictions are by and large a by-product a consequential byproduct of disenfranchisement



    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Asylum seekers get no advantage other than a place to stay in what iis often very poor accommodation.
    Beggars can't be choosers



    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Once granted refugee status, then they go on the housing list like everyone else. Benefits and housing are based on need. Unfortunately as a healthy single male then your needs come behind someone with young children. Blame the government if you want more houses built.
    Well, maybe we should allocate fairly, ie "first come first served" as I say, cities are growing at a rate of knots, where we going to build these extra houses?? green belt lamnd, as proposed by my local council??

    Work hard at school, go to Uni or college get trained up and get a good job .
    Well working class people are statistically paid more than their middle class peers as reported this week so, welp, hand me the liferaft!
    • Very Important Poster
    Online

    19
    (Original post by Treeroy)
    I think you should re read it again, he didn't blame refugees he blamed Eastern European economic migrants.


    No, migrants did not cause our housing issues, but a rapidly increasing population has a hugely negative effect on it. And the fact is we are taking in hundreds of thousands of new migrants every year, and we cannot keep up with the demand, especially with council houses being scrapped almost uniformly across the country. If we slowed migration, we would not have these issues as they are now.

    Also privately renting is massively expensive. The housing crisis is not just about social housing you realise. The two are interlinked completely.


    Its easy to say "just go to university" but its still not an option for many and should not be necessary! Funny how university never used to be commonplace and we did not have so many problems in this country. it never used to be necessary, it shouldn't need to be today.
    And again this is not about refugees, due to their very low numbers.

    Hard to argue when the person cant differentiate between refugees and migrants. Poles are here due to the freedom of movement as part of the single market. they compete for jobs better than some British workers, who either dont have the skills or arent as competitive. Everine lese benefits from the poles by cheaper prices in the shops and greater profits for the businesses who pay tax.
    When the Poles disappear, then will he be any more employable?

    Housing crisis has much less to do with migration than the fact we dont build enough houses and people live longer. You also have structural changes in society with smaller famil unitys and a high level of divorce and single parents. Nothing to do with refugees or even migrants.

    MY point on private housing was to point out he can get himself on the benefits system and get a room that way. Not sure why he feels it has to be a council house? Dies he wnat his own flat? he would have to be over 25 anyway.

    My point about going to uni is that if he wnats the better jobs and not to be stuck wgere he is then it shouldnt be about arguing about benefits and where he is on a waiting list but he should go out and improve his lo through education, training and application. These forums are full of people doing just that.

    Not everyone is academically blessed, but then thats why you go to college and get vocational qualifications. careers advice and effort in using what potential and skills you have to better yourself. It never used to be that people had to go to university but the world has changed and you ahve to compete. he could learn a trade and make a good living that way.

    If its not about refugees then he should stop mentioning them, its the wrong target.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Treeroy)
    I know that currently we have lots of foreign nurses but honestly I do not believe we are lacking people willing to do those jobs. If they gave NHS workers proper liveable working hours and pay, and provided the schemes to train people, it would not be a problem. I am not suggesting kicking all the foreign nurses out and starting from scratch, but phasing the immigration out.
    Definitely agree there! Nurses are overworked and underpaid. Reliance of foreign nurses could be problematic too.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ItsRoger)
    So 450 people went to Syria and came back to the UK. Many of them undertook trials and 75 were found guilty of helping terror organisations. Seems to me there are 75 ISIS members and they're all in jail??
    (Original post by ItsRoger)
    So 450 people went to Syria and came back to the UK. Many of them undertook trials and 75 were found guilty of helping terror organisations. Seems to me there are 75 ISIS members and they're all in jail??
    There's bound to be someone who hasn't been caught there are arrests in a weekly basis the white widow is still on the loose or still was latest I heard (AUG 2016) She is operational in the Walsall/Birmingham area (Great Barr aswell) police intelligence do a lot to keep us safe FYI
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    ok
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Hard to argue when the person cant differentiate between refugees and migrants. Poles are here due to the freedom of movement as part of the single market. they compete for jobs better than some British workers, who either dont have the skills or arent as competitive. Everine lese benefits from the poles by cheaper prices in the shops and greater profits for the businesses who pay tax.
    When the Poles disappear, then will he be any more employable?

    Housing crisis has much less to do with migration than the fact we dont build enough houses and people live longer. You also have structural changes in society with smaller famil unitys and a high level of divorce and single parents. Nothing to do with refugees or even migrants.

    MY point on private housing was to point out he can get himself on the benefits system and get a room that way. Not sure why he feels it has to be a council house? Dies he wnat his own flat? he would have to be over 25 anyway.

    My point about going to uni is that if he wnats the better jobs and not to be stuck wgere he is then it shouldnt be about arguing about benefits and where he is on a waiting list but he should go out and improve his lo through education, training and application. These forums are full of people doing just that.

    Not everyone is academically blessed, but then thats why you go to college and get vocational qualifications. careers advice and effort in using what potential and skills you have to better yourself. It never used to be that people had to go to university but the world has changed and you ahve to compete. he could learn a trade and make a good living that way.

    If its not about refugees then he should stop mentioning them, its the wrong target.
    Yeah we're aware they are because the EU allows them to. That's what we are against.

    I don't really believe in the nonsense idea that no British people are willing to do these jobs. I accept that Eastern Europeans will be more willing to do so because it's still a much better quality of life than they might have back home, but that doesn't mean british people would refuse. I work in a council and see many people looking for work who would very happily do literally anything just to support their family or make a living.

    OK so maybe they are harder workers. So what? We do not live in this country to build the strongest, most competent workforce on the planet. We are here and we work to support ourselves and each other. We should work to ensure that all native citizens are given opportunities and good quality of life regardless of how skilled they are. So yes i believe prioritise a weaker British worker over a stronger European worker. I hope that does not make me a racist! (actually I don't care if it does)


    Also "just get a room and claim housing benefit", that's not really how housing benefit works...
    • Very Important Poster
    Online

    19
    [QUOTE=Danny the Geezer;69874870]45% of 40k is still an extra load, now, with people protesting en masse and social/mass media projecting this like it's a worthwhile cause (rather than a futile one, because America's immigration system has nothing to do with the UKs); are those figures going to increase as the years go by because being "pro-migration" is seen as as the "right" thing to do? Where we going to house these new arrivals? Will we support them financially? What about the ones that slip through the net aka go AWOL who then go on to commit crimes etc? Why, more importantly, do we sign these treaties and deals when there are many safe countries closer to the refugees' homes where houses can be built and they can live and work ?

    Not me personally but my kids. And if they can't speak the lingo they shouldn't be in a customer facing job, end of,

    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Refugees arent to blame for the shortage of housing. Blame that on governments for selling off and not building enough housing or the fact that houses are so expensive and people cant afford them. You can still get private rented accommodation so theres no reason you have to sleep on the streets. Many homeless are there because they have got lost in the benefits system or have additional issues such as drugs, acoholism and mental health issues.

    Well working class people are statistically paid more than their middle class peers as reported this week so, welp, hand me the liferaft!
    Its a pittance in a country of 64 million. You are mixing up the migration issue with refugees again. be clear in which one you wish to argue.

    You can read about the history and why the agreements on refugess were made here
    http://www.unhcr.org/uk/1951-refugee-convention.html

    Why do we sign such agreements. Already explained. Read the history, but there are diplomatic and commercial reasons plus we are one of the richest nations on the planet. We have also played a direct part in causing some of the conflicts from which the refugees are fleeing.

    Make a complaint to McDonalds then. they are businesses, they arent stupid. If it wasnt worth their while employing them, then they wouldnt. You arent happy if they claim benefits and you arent happy if they get a job, go figure.

    No idea about your last comment I thought it showed working class prrofessionals got paid less, but i didnt fully read the research.
    • Offline

      17
      put chocolate first
      • Very Important Poster
      Online

      19
      (Original post by Treeroy)
      Yeah we're aware they are because the EU allows them to. That's what we are against.

      I don't really believe in the nonsense idea that no British people are willing to do these jobs. I accept that Eastern Europeans will be more willing to do so because it's still a much better quality of life than they might have back home, but that doesn't mean british people would refuse. I work in a council and see many people looking for work who would very happily do literally anything just to support their family or make a living.

      OK so maybe they are harder workers. So what? We do not live in this country to build the strongest, most competent workforce on the planet. We are here and we work to support ourselves and each other. We should work to ensure that all native citizens are given opportunities and good quality of life regardless of how skilled they are. So yes i believe prioritise a weaker British worker over a stronger European worker. I hope that does not make me a racist! (actually I don't care if it does)


      Also "just get a room and claim housing benefit", that's not really how housing benefit works...

      1. Thats pretty futile because we are leaving the EU. Dont forget the EU allows them to but we decided to join and we signed the agreements allowing free movement of people. Its a choice made by the government of the UK elected by the people of the UK.

      2. If British people wnat to do these jobs, McDonalds was mentioned enviously above, then they should compete. personally id rather have a better paying job and skill myself accordingly.

      3. Its economics. British people like things at cheapest price rather than it be supplied by britsih workers. Thats why they buy German cars and American phones. All you are saying is subsidise British workers to be competitive when tthe UK population then dont but british but buy the cheapest or most competive item they can. they arent sentimental. I bet all the people complaining of immigrants dont buy exclusively British products. They dont really care about the unemployed working class.

      4. I know how HB works and I know the initial hurdles, Ive worked for charities that deal with both the homeless, housing and benefits. The system is complicated, but it is there to be used.
      Offline

      3
      ReputationRep:
      Yes, as soon as we come out of the EU it's going to be Britain first, Britain first.
      Offline

      3
      ReputationRep:
      Basically, Dave and the Conservatives have ****ed the UK over in the past 5 or so years by being so repulsive and not giving a toss about the people.




      Posted from TSR Mobile
      Offline

      15
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by Google22)
      Basically, Dave and the Conservatives have ****ed the UK over in the past 5 or so years by being so repulsive and not giving a toss about the people.




      Posted from TSR Mobile
      As if Labour are any better? Haha, good joke.
     
     
     
    Reply
    Submit reply
    TSR Support Team

    We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

    Updated: February 1, 2017
  1. See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  2. Poll
    What newspaper do you read/prefer?
    Useful resources
  3. See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  4. The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.