Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

YES, it's in Romania ❤️ Watch

    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Snufkin)
    I am not comparing the word 'gypsy' to the N-word. 'Black' is a descriptive term for someone with African or Afro-Caribbean heritage, 'gypsy' is not a descriptive term because there is no single identifying feature common to all so-called 'gypsies'. It is true that some Roma have darker skin, but many do not. I accept that Romanian people may have a different perception on whether or not the word 'gypsy' is offensive, but in the UK (and TSR is a UK-based site), it can be.

    I didn't say they originated in Romania. All the linguistic and genetic evidence points to northern India, but so what? They live in Romania now (and have done for a very, very long time), so I find it strange that EC won't call them Romanian. If they aren't allowed to be Romanian then presumably she also thinks people of Indian descent cannot be British? That makes me uncomfortable.
    This. It's clearly underlying racism. They have been living in Romania for 100s of years. They are Romanian.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Romanian girls are hot :sexface:
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    I am a Romanian nationalist. Moldova belongs to Romania who agrees with me?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by EC)
    Yes, exactlyyyyyyy.
    :hat2:
    (Original post by Coup d'état)
    Why aren't they? Are you saying your nationality depends on your race? Can black people not be British?

    They have been living in Romania for 100s of years. They are Romanian.
    Because they're not, they don't fit in with the cultural norms of the country, they bring a bad name to Romanians through their thievery, lies etc due to people thinking they're Romanian. Unlike Asians, Blacks etc who live in the UK and have assimilated, they've not.
    (Original post by Michiyo)
    Not all gypsies were born in or live in Romania, so it would be incorrect to say gypsies are Romanian.
    Hear! Hear!
    (Original post by Snufkin)
    I accept that Romanian people may have a different perception on whether or not the word 'gypsy' is offensive, but in the UK (and TSR is a UK-based site), it can be.

    If they aren't allowed to be Romanian then presumably she also thinks people of Indian descent cannot be British? That makes me uncomfortable.
    You clearly don't accept it as you're still rambling on with your point that they're Romanian and you find it offensive to call them gypsies, which they are. I don't know where you come from but calling someone who's a gypsy, a gypsy isn't offensive.

    Stop making connections that don't exist, EC hasn't said anything of the kind and you know it. As I said earlier, you need to stop being so uptight, live a little and embrace other's opinions, especially if it's in relation to their own country and people.
    • Community Assistant
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Snufkin)
    I am not comparing the word 'gypsy' to the N-word. 'Black' is a descriptive term for someone with African or Afro-Caribbean heritage, 'gypsy' is not a descriptive term because there is no single identifying feature common to all so-called 'gypsies'. It is true that some Roma have darker skin, but many do not. I accept that Romanian people may have a different perception on whether or not the word 'gypsy' is offensive, but in the UK (and TSR is a UK-based site), it can be.

    I didn't say they originated in Romania. All the linguistic and genetic evidence points to northern India, but so what? They live in Romania now (and have done for a very, very long time), so I find it strange that EC won't call them Romanian. If they aren't allowed to be Romanian then presumably she also thinks people of Indian descent cannot be British? That makes me uncomfortable.
    You read my mind! I was just going to talk about that. :laugh:

    Since I lived in the UK for two years, I know the UK is more politically correct than Romania, but trust me, gypsy is not offensive at all in Romania. As such, I do not think it is suitable for people to tell Romanians they are being offensive when they use the word 'gypsy' as it has a different meaning to them and most gypsies agree. Gypsies call themselves gypsies, only like 0.1% of gypsies make a fuss about it.

    Not all of them do.

    No, that is not it. This is about what the gypsy identifies as; almost every single gypsy I have ever met only saw themselves as a gypsy and not Romanian, so if they consider themselves NOT to be Romanian and to be gypsies, that is what they are to me.

    (Original post by Coup d'état)
    So gypsies who were born in Romiania, are, correct?
    Depends on whether they consider themselves to be Romanian or not. Gypsy is an ethnicity and Romanian is a nationality, but most gypsies, just like Muslims (who often consider themselves Muslim above their nationality), consider their ethnicity to define them more than their nationality. So, if they consider themselves to be gypsies, they are gypsies, albeit their nationality could be Romanian or something else (if they do not choose to put their ethnicity above their nationality, in which case calling a gypsy 'Romanian' would be offensive to the gypsy in question). If they are Romanian, they are Romanian, but their ethnicity is still gypsy.

    TL;DR: Whether gypsies are gypsies and/or Romanian or not depends on what THEY identity as and most gypsies identify as gypsies, not Romanian or with whatever country they are in. Also, PandaSal explains in the above post why gypsies are often not considered Romanian.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PandaSal)

    Because they're not, they don't fit in with the cultural norms of the country, they bring a bad name to Romanians through their thievery, lies etc due to people thinking they're Romanian. Unlike Asians, Blacks etc who live in the UK and have assimilated, they've not.
    All irrelevant. They're born in Romania therefore Romanian.

    (Original post by Michiyo)
    You read my mind! I was just going to talk about that. :laugh:

    Since I lived in the UK for two years, I know the UK is more politically correct than Romania, but trust me, gypsy is not offensive at all in Romania. As such, I do not think it is suitable for people to tell Romanians they are being offensive when they use the word 'gypsy' as it has a different meaning to them and most gypsies agree. Gypsies call themselves gypsies, only like 0.1% of gypsies make a fuss about it.

    Not all of them do.

    No, that is not it. This is about what the gypsy identifies as; almost every single gypsy I have ever met only saw themselves as a gypsy and not Romanian, so if they consider themselves NOT to be Romanian and to be gypsies, that is what they are to me.



    Depends on whether they consider themselves to be Romanian or not. Gypsy is an ethnicity and Romanian is a nationality, but most gypsies, just like Muslims (who often consider themselves Muslim above their nationality), consider their ethnicity to define them more than their nationality. So, if they consider themselves to be gypsies, they are gypsies, albeit their nationality could be Romanian or something else (if they do not choose to put their ethnicity above their nationality, in which case calling a gypsy 'Romanian' would be offensive to the gypsy in question). If they are Romanian, they are Romanian, but their ethnicity is still gypsy.

    TL;DR: Whether gypsies are gypsies and/or Romanian or not depends on what THEY identity as and msot gypsies identify as gypsies, not Romanian. Also, PandaSal explains in the above post why gypsies are often not considered Romanian.
    Again all irrelevant. Your ethnicity doesn't determine your natioanlity. You can be any ethnicity and be Romanian if you were born there.
    • Political Ambassador
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    18
    Michiyo don't bother with any further explanations.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by EC)
    Yes, exactlyyyyyyy.
    Romani people of Romania have lived there since the 13th century. Sure they may be a different ethnicity but they are still Romanians. It is like saying black Britons are not british- perhaps ethnically but they are still british
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by EC)
    Michiyo don't bother with any further explanations.
    "Don't bother trying to justify our racism"
    • Political Ambassador
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    18
    (Original post by Coup d'état)
    "Don't bother trying to justify our racism"
    Too bad no one ever called me a racist and I never insulted them, I bump into them almost every single day and I don't think you actually ever talked to any of these people to find out their views. So calm down, I'm not explaining myself anymore to someone who has no idea what they're talking about.
    • Community Assistant
    • Clearing and Applications Advisor
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Michiyo)
    TL;DR: Whether gypsies are gypsies and/or Romanian or not depends on what THEY identity as and most gypsies identify as gypsies, not Romanian or with whatever country they are in. Also, PandaSal explains in the above post why gypsies are often not considered Romanian.
    I agree that there is nothing wrong with a Romani person self-identifying as a 'gypsy' rather than 'Romanian', my issue is with people who say "[all] gypsies are not Romanian" - I have seen a number of people express such views in this thread.
    • Community Assistant
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Coup d'état)
    "Don't bother trying to justify our racism"
    It would all make sense if you studied anything related to sociology and knew that being British, Japanese, Romanian or any other nationality is much more than having a citizenship or being born in a country :rolleyes:

    If it helps you understand, start by asking yourself 'What makes a person British?'. Is it just a citizenship or place of birth or is it much more than that? Think of all the immigrants you have met when pondering on this and you might just realise why a lot of gypsies can hardly be called Romanian even if they were born in Romania.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Michiyo)
    It would all make sense if you studied anything related to sociology and knew that being British, Japanese, Romanian or any other nationality is much more than having a citizenship or being born in a country :rolleyes:

    If it helps you understand, start by asking yourself 'What makes a person British?'. Is it just a citizenship or place of birth or is it much more than that? Think of all the immigrants you have met when pondering on this and you might just realise why a lot of gypsies can hardly be called Romanian even if they were born in Romania.
    To confirm, you don't think a black person can be British?
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Snufkin)
    I agree that there is nothing wrong with a Romani person self-identifying as a 'gypsy' rather than 'Romanian', my issue is with people who say "[all] gypsies are not Romanian" - I have seen a number of people express such views in this thread.
    Romani gypsies have lived in Romania since the 13th century. Surely they are also Romanians, even despite belonging to a different ethnic group
    • Very Important Poster
    • Welcome Squad
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Classic TSR.

    A thread about scenery in Romania ends up getting into an argument over the definition of the word "gypsy" :rofl:
    • Community Assistant
    • Clearing and Applications Advisor
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by UWS)
    Classic TSR.

    A thread about scenery in Romania ends up getting into an argument over the definition of the word "gypsy" :rofl:
    :ahee: Makes for a more interesting thread. :yes:
    • Political Ambassador
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    18
    (Original post by UWS)
    Classic TSR.

    A thread about scenery in Romania ends up getting into an argument over the definition of the word "gypsy" :rofl:
    "The traditional and colloquial Romanian name for Romani, is "țigani" (cognate with Serbian (cigani), Hungarian (cigány, Greek ατσίγγανοι (atsinganoi), French (tsiganes), Portuguese (ciganos), Dutch (zigeuner), German (Zigeuner) and Italian (zingari).

    Starting from the 1990s, the word "Romani" has also been officially used in the Romanian Language.

    In 2009-2010, a media campaign followed by a parliamentarian initiative asked the Romanian Parliament to accept a proposal to change back the official name of country's Roma (adopted in 2000) to Țigan (Gypsy), the traditional and colloquial Romanian name for Romani, in order to avoid the possible confusion among the international community between the words Roma — which refers to the Romani ethnic minority — and Romania."
    • Political Ambassador
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    18
    (Original post by TheTruthTeller)
    Romani gypsies have lived in Romania since the 13th century. Surely they are also Romanians, even despite belonging to a different ethnic group
    They are the second largest minority after Hungarians in Romania.

    In February 2016, during the International Roma Conference, the Indian Minister stated that the people of the Roma community were children of India. The conference ended with a recommendation to the Government to recognize the Roma community spread across 30 countries as a part of the Indian Diaspora.
    • Community Assistant
    • Clearing and Applications Advisor
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by EC)
    "The traditional and colloquial Romanian name for Romani, is "țigani" (cognate with Serbian (cigani), Hungarian (cigány, Greek ατσίγγανοι (atsinganoi), French (tsiganes), Portuguese (ciganos), Dutch (zigeuner), German (Zigeuner) and Italian (zingari).

    Starting from the 1990s, the word "Romani" has also been officially used in the Romanian Language.

    In 2009-2010, a media campaign followed by a parliamentarian initiative asked the Romanian Parliament to accept a proposal to change back the official name of country's Roma (adopted in 2000) to Țigan (Gypsy), the traditional and colloquial Romanian name for Romani, in order to avoid the possible confusion among the international community between the words Roma — which refers to the Romani ethnic minority — and Romania."
    You left out the most important sentence from that Wikipedia article: "The Romanian upper house, Senate, rejected the proposal."
    • Political Ambassador
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    18
    (Original post by Snufkin)
    You left out the most important sentence from that Wikipedia article: "The Romanian upper house, Senate, rejected the proposal."
    So? They mostly reject beneficial proposals.

    How is this important?
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Did TEF Bronze Award affect your UCAS choices?
    Useful resources
    AtCTs

    Ask the Community Team

    Got a question about the site content or our moderation? Ask here.

    Welcome Lounge

    Welcome Lounge

    We're a friendly bunch. Post here if you're new to TSR.

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.