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How can anyone believe that there is a left wing bias in the media? Watch

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    While many papers are left-wing and many are right-wing, no paper claims to be non-partisan, and their leanings are based on a population they're aiming at to buy and read their articles. So is it really a problem? People should base their own opinions by reading different, varied and conflicting reports.

    However, the BBC *should* be the impartial news source as laid out in their Royal Chater. But whether they hold true to this is up for debate.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    So it focuses on news and has a political leaning like the Telegraph, then? or does the Telegraph or the Right not think think they are inherently right?
    Ridiculous comment by you.
    Did you even read my comment? I said the Guardian is melodramatic and sensationalist, like the Daily Mail.
    I've already said that Telegraph is overtly biased in favour of the Conservative Party, but at it least tones down on preachy, provactive sensationalism that the Guardian and Daily Mail specialise in. The Telegraph normally focuses on supporting the Tories, where as the Mail and Guardian go out of their way to trash and smear the other side.
    What an utterly stupid attempt at a rebuttal from you.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Did you even read my comment? I said the Guardian is melodramatic and sensationalist, like the Daily Mail.
    I've already said that Telegraph is overtly biased in favour of the Conservative Party, but at it least tones down on preachy, provactive sensationalism that the Guardian and Daily Mail specialise in. The Telegraph normally focuses on supporting the Tories, where as the Mail and Guardian go out of their way to trash and smear the other side.
    What an utterly stupid attempt at a rebuttal from you.
    I read all three. The Telegraph has its own style and is just as biased. It can adopt a more reserved style because it is conservative and establishment. It doesnt need to talk about social issues. I dont regard one as better than the other. The comparison with the Mail was way off though as it is on its own planet and the quality of its news journalism is poor.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    I read all three. The Telegraph has its own style and is just as biased. It can adopt a more reserved style because it is conservative and establishment. It doesnt need to talk about social issues. I dont regard one as better than the other. The comparison with the Mail was way off though as it is on its own planet and the quality of its news journalism is poor.
    Again, did you actually read my comment? I said the Telegraph is overtly biased. That's not something I'm disputing.
    Being 'reserved' though is precisely why the Telegraph is better than the Guardian. The Guardian is provocative. It overuses buzzwords and is a non-stop conveyor belt of calling everything right-wing evil and sinister. It smears political opponents as racists. It's full of rants with little political substance. It legitimised and advocated for the likes of Phil Shiner. It spins simply news reporting before even analysing it (see its coverage of the Berkeley riot).
    The Guardian is definitely a left-wing equivalent of the Daily Mail, and the fact that the left hold it in such high regard proves my point.
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    I don't see how the individual political beliefs of journalists within the BBC is really relevant- it's pretty much impossible for a journalist to be totally neutral in his/her own views about a topic, and the question behind an agenda in coverage should be more about how balanced the presentation of News coverage is on either side. As others have mentioned, the BBC is often accused of both leaning to the left and right on separate occasions, which suggests they're doing quite a good job at some degree of neutrality.

    The thing I would say, is that the BBC and other similar TV News outlets, are very much pro-establishment in their coverage and in favour of maintaining the status quo, but I can't say that negative coverage of something like Trump is very good evidence of that seeing as the majority of the UK population generally oppose Trump in many areas.

    It's pretty ironic how the Right constantly criticises the BBC for 'left-wing PC bias' when some of the most popular Newspapers (The Telegraph, The Daily Mail) blatantly favour the right wing, presenting such fantastically balanced coverage as 'Ed Milliband can't eat a sandwich properly'.
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    (Original post by Percypig17)
    I don't see how the individual political beliefs of journalists within the BBC is really relevant- it's pretty much impossible for a journalist to be totally neutral in his/her own views about a topic, and the question behind an agenda in coverage should be more about how balanced the presentation of News coverage is on either side. As others have mentioned, the BBC is often accused of both leaning to the left and right on separate occasions, which suggests they're doing quite a good job at some degree of neutrality.

    The thing I would say, is that the BBC and other similar TV News outlets, are very much pro-establishment in their coverage and in favour of maintaining the status quo, but I can't say that negative coverage of something like Trump is very good evidence of that seeing as the majority of the UK population generally oppose Trump in many areas.

    It's pretty ironic how the Right constantly criticises the BBC for 'left-wing PC bias' when some of the most popular Newspapers (The Telegraph, The Daily Mail) blatantly favour the right wing, presenting such fantastically balanced coverage as 'Ed Milliband can't eat a sandwich properly'.
    BBC journalists are overwhelmingly left-wing. In line with it's mandate of public service broadcasting and the general population it should at least strive for equal numbers of conservatives, liberals and centrists.

    The 'it gets criticised by both sides which is proof of impartiality' argument is a load of baloney. If you list instances of when it's been biased against the left, and I do the same for when it's biased against the right, I guarantee my list will be far longer and more comprehensive.
    Left-wing criticisms of the BBC are like when Owen Jones accused it of being pro-Tory literally just because he could name a dozen right-wing BBC journalists. Right-wing criticisms are like when a former director-general comes out and admits that the BBC has had issues with left-wing bias and impartiality. The two are hardly comparable criticisms.

    Privately owned media is allowed to be biased. The BBC is not. It's absolutely not a counter to right-wing media. That's what the likes of the Guardian are for. The BBC must be impartial at all times, regardless of anything else.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    BBC journalists are overwhelmingly left-wing. In line with it's mandate of public service broadcasting and the general population it should at least strive for equal numbers of conservatives, liberals and centrists.

    The 'it gets criticised by both sides which is proof of impartiality' argument is a load of baloney. If you list instances of when it's been biased against the left, and I do the same for when it's biased against the right, I guarantee my list will be far longer and more comprehensive.
    Left-wing criticisms of the BBC are like when Owen Jones accused it of being pro-Tory literally just because he could name a dozen right-wing BBC journalists. Right-wing criticisms are like when a former director-general comes out and admits that the BBC has had issues with left-wing bias and impartiality. The two are hardly comparable criticisms.

    Privately owned media is allowed to be biased. The BBC is not. It's absolutely not a counter to right-wing media. That's what the likes of the Guardian are for. The BBC must be impartial at all times, regardless of anything else.
    Yes.

    I'd say BBC News is dripping with political propaganda. Everything from their choice of story, wording, the points of view and quotes they have on certain topics... It's so obvious at times it's infuriating.

    They will constantly challenge right-wing claims and politics but will rarely provide the same 'counter points' to the left-wing stuff. Or if some small story can be used to push the progressive narrative, they'll likely report on it and have it on the main page. Don't count on them picking up many stories that challenge this narrative, however. If on the rare occasion they do, counter points and counter facts are carpet bombed throughout the article and suddenly they care about being 'balanced' and skeptical.

    And they shouldn't even have an opinion section on their website, if you ask me.

    They're funded with public money. It's should be an objective, balanced case of who, what, where and when. No funny business or political spins.
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    No it is not just immigration I'm getting at.
    Expand then.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Expand then.
    I kinda already did!

    If you don't see a metropolitan centric, establishment, slightly soggy left, liberal bias in the BBC particularly, but also ITV and C4 news, then nothing I can say will persuade you.

    I don't think it is conscious it just that all the news editors and journalists live in the same world, and have a similar mindset. A sort of group think evolves.

    There are so many examples other than immigration.

    Immigration is the radioactive subject obviously (even the media get that now), but apart from that, what are the two hottest topics in British politics right now? I suggest to you they are Brexit and Muslim integration, or the lack thereof.

    Brexit is not a left right issue but it IS a bien versus mal pensant matter. It has taken the broadcast media, which was Remain pretty much to a man or woman, months to catch up with what is happening to the country. They were in total denial and shock in the second half of last year.

    With respect to Muslim integration, you still won't find the mainstream broadcast media referring to, let alone articulating, what the hoi poloi think of the matter. Their views are persona non grata.

    Not sure that this discussion is going anywhere. You either can't see it. And therefore think it isn't there.

    Or you do see it but are just arguing the toss.

    Either way, I am done. Take care.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Did you even read my comment? I said the Guardian is melodramatic and sensationalist, like the Daily Mail.
    I've already said that Telegraph is overtly biased in favour of the Conservative Party, but at it least tones down on preachy, provactive sensationalism that the Guardian and Daily Mail specialise in. The Telegraph normally focuses on supporting the Tories, where as the Mail and Guardian go out of their way to trash and smear the other side.
    What an utterly stupid attempt at a rebuttal from you.
    Disagree.

    The Telegraph is every bit as sensationalist as the Guardian. Just look at its attitudes towards the High Court judges in the Brexit case.

    Newspapers shouldn't be supporting parties, they should be holding them to account. Especially the governing party.
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    Yes.

    I'd say BBC News is dripping with political propaganda. Everything from their choice of story, wording, the points of view and quotes they have on certain topics... It's so obvious at times it's infuriating.

    They will constantly challenge right-wing claims and politics but will rarely provide the same 'counter points' to the left-wing stuff. Or if some small story can be used to push the progressive narrative, they'll likely report on it and have it on the main page. Don't count on them picking up many stories that challenge this narrative, however. If on the rare occasion they do, counter points and counter facts are carpet bombed throughout the article and suddenly they care about being 'balanced' and skeptical.

    And they shouldn't even have an opinion section on their website, if you ask me.

    They're funded with public money. It's should be an objective, balanced case of who, what, where and when. No funny business or political spins.

    Yeah Andrew Neal, Nick Robinson and Laura Kusennesburg are really left wing? To name three...
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    BBC journalists are overwhelmingly left-wing. In line with it's mandate of public service broadcasting and the general population it should at least strive for equal numbers of conservatives, liberals and centrists.

    The 'it gets criticised by both sides which is proof of impartiality' argument is a load of baloney. If you list instances of when it's been biased against the left, and I do the same for when it's biased against the right, I guarantee my list will be far longer and more comprehensive.
    Left-wing criticisms of the BBC are like when Owen Jones accused it of being pro-Tory literally just because he could name a dozen right-wing BBC journalists. Right-wing criticisms are like when a former director-general comes out and admits that the BBC has had issues with left-wing bias and impartiality. The two are hardly comparable criticisms.

    Privately owned media is allowed to be biased. The BBC is not. It's absolutely not a counter to right-wing media. That's what the likes of the Guardian are for. The BBC must be impartial at all times, regardless of anything else.
    There is no such thing as true impartiality. Doesn't exist.

    The BBC is reasonably balanced. Note balanced does not mean impartial. On some issues it leans right, others it leans left but it generally does a good job of giving air time to both sides and scrutinising both sides.

    It seems to be an incredibly lazy bandwagon to jump on.
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    (Original post by BBS_)
    While many papers are left-wing and many are right-wing, no paper claims to be non-partisan, and their leanings are based on a population they're aiming at to buy and read their articles. So is it really a problem? People should base their own opinions by reading different, varied and conflicting reports.

    However, the BBC *should* be the impartial news source as laid out in their Royal Chater. But whether they hold true to this is up for debate.
    No such thing as impartiality.

    The BBC shouldn't be impartial, it should be balanced. I'd say it is fairly balanced. Some journalists are right wing, others left. It genuinely does a good job of showing both sides of the story.

    I would agree that it is biased against both the far right and far left. But as for the centre-right, centre-left? It's certainly pretty balanced.
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    It's interesting how people on the internet cry that the mainstream media is biased and yet they make the most exaggerated and ridiculous right leaning comments.

    I've seen the guardian make anti islam, anti multiculturalist articles. Opinions and stances on social issues are multifaceted and complicated and the right have successfully managed to label it all as "leftist propaganda" because theyre stupid enough to not understand the complexity of the issue at hand.
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    The left wing bias exists, just as the right wing bias exists. HOWEVER, the left wing bias is considered as a bigger 'problem' because people constantly quote it and can't be bothered to research it on their own, whilst left wing groups and YouTube channels (Buzzfeed) get a lot more publicity and in relation to groups, do a lot more/create as much controversy as possible so get noticed. If people could, I don't know, research a topic themselves, the world wouldn't be in the state it was now
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Disagree.

    The Telegraph is every bit as sensationalist as the Guardian. Just look at its attitudes towards the High Court judges in the Brexit case.

    Newspapers shouldn't be supporting parties, they should be holding them to account. Especially the governing party.
    What was its attitude? As far as I can remember it was the Daily Mail (of course) that was the main instigator of hysteria over the High Court ruling.

    Whether or not a party needs to be held to account over something is a matter of political opinion. Obviously the left would think the Tories need to be held to account over everything. There's no inherent reason a media organisation shouldn't be able to advocate or applaud a policy. Otherwise all we're left with is dour, miserable news arguing over which party is the worst.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    What was its attitude? As far as I can remember it was the Daily Mail (of course) that was the main instigator of hysteria over the High Court ruling.

    Whether or not a party needs to be held to account over something is a matter of political opinion. Obviously the left would think the Tories need to be held to account over everything. There's no inherent reason a media organisation shouldn't be able to advocate or applaud a policy. Otherwise all we're left with is dour, miserable news arguing over which party is the worst.
    My argument would be that ultimately it is the governing party who impact our lives. The average person doesn't have time to research everything that's going on and as the press are in an advantageous position they should be holding our 'rulers' to account. My opinion, of course.

    As for High Court the DT had a headline 'the judges vs the people' with a massive picture of the judges. Portraying them, albeit more subtly, as enemies of the people.

    One thing I do actually like about the Guardian (whatever its faults may be) is that it isn't just a labour party mouthpiece. It is fiercely critical of Corbyn in the main (bar a couple of journos). People like Jonathon Freedland and Nick Cohen are certainly not left wing parrots. The latter actually wrote a book condemning the left and frequently shares his distaste for it. The Telegraph on the other hand seems little more than a tory party fan club.


    As for the BBC, i'd argue again that impartiality is not a real thing. You can't ask them to be impartial, you can only ask them to be balanced. The BBC certainly is biased against the far right and far left, I agree. But i'd say it's fairly even handed between the centre right and centre left. Perhaps centre left socially and centre right economically.

    It generally does a good job of showing both sides of an argument and invariably at times it will come across as biased but it in the main it does a good job.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    There is no such thing as true impartiality. Doesn't exist.

    The BBC is reasonably balanced. Note balanced does not mean impartial. On some issues it leans right, others it leans left but it generally does a good job of giving air time to both sides and scrutinising both sides.

    It seems to be an incredibly lazy bandwagon to jump on.
    I know. That's the whole point; the BBC fails to achieve the impartiality it is meant to.

    On what issues does it lean right?

    The BBC has to be balanced and impartial. Balanced in giving both sides a fair platform, and impartial in not being seen to endorse or support either side.

    It's hardly a lazy bandwagon. No ex-BBC employee has ever spoken out and accused it of having a pro-conservative or pro-Tory bias. It's not super overt and no one is saying the BBC is as left-wing as the Guardian, but absolutely of course it strays to the liberal left.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    I know. That's the whole point; the BBC fails to achieve the impartiality it is meant to.

    On what issues does it lean right?

    The BBC has to be balanced and impartial. Balanced in giving both sides a fair platform, and impartial in not being seen to endorse or support either side.

    It's hardly a lazy bandwagon. No ex-BBC employee has ever spoken out and accused it of having a pro-conservative or pro-Tory bias. It's not super overt and no one is saying the BBC is as left-wing as the Guardian, but absolutely of course it strays to the liberal left.
    Economic issues, I'd say it leans slightly right. Social issues slightly left. As in fairly economically and socially liberal.


    I don't think it's possible to be impartial though, that's the point i'm making. The reporting of events almost always has an element of subjectivity about them, even if people don't realise. To be totally impartial the BBC wouldn't be able to say democracy is a good thing, or genocide is a bad thing. It would have to make sure that it was in no way critical of neo nazis or Stalinites. It wouldn't be able to criticise North Korea or Isis. It couldn't make the assumption that capitalism is good and would have to hold communism, fascism and anarchism as just as viable.

    No one is impartial. I do in the main think BBC does give both sides a fair platform. Leans slightly left at times and slightly right at others but rarely in a significant way.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    My argument would be that ultimately it is the governing party who impact our lives. The average person doesn't have time to research everything that's going on and as the press are in an advantageous position they should be holding our 'rulers' to account. My opinion, of course.
    Absolutely, they should when needed to. And if the Telegraph doesn't, the Guardian should, just simply without the melodrama.

    (Original post by Bornblue)
    As for High Court the DT had a headline 'the judges vs the people' with a massive picture of the judges. Portraying them, albeit more subtly, as enemies of the people.
    Hmm. That is a dubious headline, although to be fair having googled it the article itself is hardly sensationalist on Guardian levels, where every article seemingly has to check off a list of buzzwords to use including 'racist, xenophobic, chilling, sinister, draconian, evil, white privilege, alt-right, hate speech' and include a quote from an immigrant about how they now fear for their lives.

    (Original post by Bornblue)
    One thing I do actually like about the Guardian (whatever its faults may be) is that it isn't just a labour party mouthpiece. It is fiercely critical of Corbyn in the main (bar a couple of journos). People like Jonathon Freedland and Nick Cohen are certainly not left wing parrots. The latter actually wrote a book condemning the left and frequently shares his distaste for it. The Telegraph on the other hand seems little more than a tory party fan club.
    True dat.
    I would say that the right knows this about the Telegraph, and most of us don't pretend otherwise. It's the Torygraph and we know it.


    (Original post by Bornblue)
    As for the BBC, i'd argue again that impartiality is not a real thing. You can't ask them to be impartial, you can only ask them to be balanced. The BBC certainly is biased against the far right and far left, I agree. But i'd say it's fairly even handed between the centre right and centre left. Perhaps centre left socially and centre right economically.

    It generally does a good job of showing both sides of an argument and invariably at times it will come across as biased but it in the main it does a good job.
    Addressed partly in my other response.
 
 
 
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