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Please help, Muslims will probably only understand Watch

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    (Original post by MiszShortee786)
    Hah why not? Because there is evidence clear evidence which people on here are rejecting.
    There is zero evidence that it is true that would convince any rational thinker who does not already believe it is true.

    But just to humour you, give me your best, most convincing piece of evidence, and unless it is one that I have not come across before, I will explain why it is not "evidence" but merely "belief".
    (Don't worry, I don't expect you to actually do this because deep down, you know that it is really just faith based on indoctrination )
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    (Original post by MiszShortee786)
    Lets leave that to people like you who know all about my religion to figure out shall I?
    Haha! The old "I know, but I'm not telling you" ploy again!
    You really don't have any evidence do you? All you have is faith. Hey, don't worry, that's what religion is all about. After all, if there really was evidence, then there would be no test, and without the test, the argument to explain the unnecessary suffering inflicted by god falls apart.

    Seems like whatever leak you try to plug, another one springs out.
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    (Original post by BigTraderBoi)
    I couldn't care less because they are wrong. The people who say 2+2=5 are wrong so why should we care what they think?
    So which Islamic sect has the best algebraic practices, you feel?
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    This is a claim touted by some that holds no water in reality.
    At most we can say there are 3 sects and that is stretching it:
    Sunni islam 80-85% of muslims
    Shia islam
    The possible third sect that could be argued for are quranists (who are viewed unanimously by the vast majority (ie both sunni and shia to not be following the quran they claim to follow)

    Then there are the khawarij who are not a sect per say but rather extremists who excommunicate everyone but them (eg isis,qaeda, shia cleric in london whose name I dont know).
    So all Sunnis agree on doctrine, interpretation, practice and implementation?
    Er, ok....
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    If there truly is a God, and he's a loving God, why would he refuse to recognise a loving bond between two people just because they weren't joined in one exact and particular type of ceremony? Doesn't that sound a bit petty of an all-loving God? Doesn't that sound more like the writings of fallible man, scheming to ensure that a certain belief system is passed down to the next generation?
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    (Original post by MiszShortee786)
    You have plenty of resources avaliable to find your way to Islam. Allah gives and gives until one is certain that they defo don't want to believe. Then he seals ones heart and mind thereby becoming headless
    This makes no sense. Why would Allah stop anyone from believing? If he knows that they will never believe then there is no need for the seal. If there is a chance that they might believe in the future, then the seal is unfair.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    you disbelieved and will probably stay like that, du e to your arrgant attitude.
    This makes no sense.
    Are you seriously claiming that people know that Islam is true, know that disbelief will result in an eternity of unbearable torture, and know that belief results in an eternity of absolute paradise....but pretend that they don't believe, because they are "arrogant"?
    That is seriously deluded thinking!

    Because of this your heart and mind has been sealed from the beauty of Islam, to prevent your heart and mind corrupting Islam.
    This is even more bonkers than your previous statement!
    You are saying that if a disbeliever found the truth of Islam and converted, it could corrupt Islam?
    First, if they believe then how are they going to corrupt it.
    Second, is Islam so fragile that the thoughts of a disbeliever can corrupt Allah's perfect creation?
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    (Original post by AishaGirl)
    Your heart is sealed but have you actually tried to believe? I am of the belief that you cannot choose what you believe, you cannot chose to believe that a square is a circle...

    However if you remain ignorant and don't make the conscious effort learn and read about Islam then yes your heart will forever be sealed.

    How can you expect to believe in something you've never read or taken the time to understand? It is every humans responsibility to seek out the truth, how can you believe in the book if you never read it?

    Reading a sura here or there isn't enough. You need to apply it to your life, you need to quit the drinking and the drugs (if you do them) and the sex and try to bond with your creator. Learn to pray, even if you don't recite it correctly, it's your actions that are important.

    Perhaps then he will guide you to him. "Allah swt says: “Take one step towards me, I will take ten steps towards you. Walk towards me, I will run towards you.”
    Here's a barrier to my belief.

    I find it hard to believe in a creator who would first of all give me mortal life, then seal my heart and mind against him, then torture my immortal soul (which he also created) for all eternity because I didn't believe in him. When he decided I wouldn't in the first place.

    And not just me, billions of other people alive today. Everyone on this thread who isn't a Muslim too.

    It doesn't make any sense to me. But then God has made me think that, so of course it doesn't.

    Can you not see what a strange (highly unpleasant actually) God it is that YOU believe in, that would do this?

    Creating billions of souls only to torture them for ever and ever?
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    (Original post by BigTraderBoi)
    I couldn't care less because they are wrong. The people who say 2+2=5 are wrong so why should we care what they think?
    How do you know that it isn't you who thinks that 2+2=5?
    After all, all the others think that they are saying 2+2=4.

    Seriously, other than a belief that you must be right and the others wrong, what evidence do you have?
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    (Original post by BigTraderBoi)
    No it is absolutely not. A Muslim must believe and accept all parts of the Quran.
    So the other poster ( Zamestaneh ?) was wrong when he said that an "all or nothing approach" is not necessary.

    You accept that Muslims can keep slaves and use their female captives for sex?
    You accept that Noah lived to be over 950 years old.
    From the depraved to the ridiculous!
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    Here's a barrier to my belief.

    I find it hard to believe in a creator who would first of all give me mortal life, then seal my heart and mind against him, then torture my immortal soul (which he also created) for all eternity because I didn't believe in him. When he decided I wouldn't in the first place.

    And not just me, billions of other people alive today. Everyone on this thread who isn't a Muslim too.

    It doesn't make any sense to me. But then God has made me think that, so of course it doesn't.

    Can you not see what a strange (highly unpleasant actually) God it is that YOU believe in, that would do this?

    Creating billions of souls only to torture them for ever and ever?
    It is not our job to think of what god does and why. His thinking is above ours.

    The entire point of life is to test you, so start revising.
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    (Original post by AishaGirl)
    Your heart is sealed but have you actually tried to believe? I am of the belief that you cannot choose what you believe, you cannot chose to believe that a square is a circle...

    However if you remain ignorant and don't make the conscious effort learn and read about Islam then yes your heart will forever be sealed.

    How can you expect to believe in something you've never read or taken the time to understand? It is every humans responsibility to seek out the truth, how can you believe in the book if you never read it?

    Reading a sura here or there isn't enough. You need to apply it to your life, you need to quit the drinking and the drugs (if you do them) and the sex and try to bond with your creator. Learn to pray, even if you don't recite it correctly, it's your actions that are important.

    Perhaps then he will guide you to him. "Allah swt says: “Take one step towards me, I will take ten steps towards you. Walk towards me, I will run towards you.”
    But all of this would be futile because no matter how much they tried...
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment. - Quran 2:6-7
    and
    And We have certainly created for Hell many of the jinn and mankind. - Quran 7:179

    It is like me saying I can't use my car because it has run out petrol, and you saying, "all you have to do is drive it to a petrol station and you can fill up there". It may sound reasonable, but it is impossible due to the restriction that the suggested action is designed to remove.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    But all of this would be futile because no matter how much they tried...
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment. - Quran 2:6-7
    and
    And We have certainly created for Hell many of the jinn and mankind. - Quran 7:179

    It is like me saying I can't use my car because it has run out petrol, and you saying, "all you have to do is drive it to a petrol station and you can fill up there". It may sound reasonable, but it is impossible due to the restriction that the suggested action is designed to remove.
    That verse is referring to forcing someone to believe. Belief in the creator has to come from your heart. I can warn you and do everything in my power to make you believe but you will not believe by my actions.

    You have to find god, we cannot find him for you.
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    (Original post by AishaGirl)
    It is not our job to think of what god does and why. His thinking is above ours.
    Please, please do not resort to the "Allah knows best" argument to explain the inexplicable.

    The entire point of life is to test you
    Why? What purpose does this serve? Apart from the issues of Allah deliberately creating billions who he knows are going to fail the test simply because they were born to the wrong parents, by his decree, and those who he has deliberately prevented from revising for the test - Allah knows the result of every test. He already knows the destination of every person, and they can do nothing to avoid that destination!
    The test is utterly meaningless.

    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...b82efb6e15.jpg
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    (Original post by AishaGirl)
    That verse is referring to forcing someone to believe. Belief in the creator has to come from your heart. I can warn you and do everything in my power to make you believe but you will not believe by my actions.

    You have to find god, we cannot find him for you.
    But it is impossible for me to find him, because it seems he has created me for hell and set a seal on my heart. I cannot do or think anything that Allah has not already decreed. If he has decreed that at some point in the future I will find Islam, then it will happen and no amount of "arrogance" on my part can prevent it. However, if he has decreed that I will go to hell, no amount of effort on my part can prevent it. Inshallah.
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    (Original post by AishaGirl)
    It is not our job to think of what god does and why. His thinking is above ours.
    Why then give us intellect, if not to exercise it? You seem to be implying a promotion of blind belief, not to forget you seem to be referring to the 'Allahn knows best/God works in mysterious ways' - a very unsatisfying cliche, often used when aspects of one's religion comes across as nonsensical, certainly a Muslim apologist would be reluctant to accept such a cliche, had it been said to the Muslim apologist by a rival religionist for his/her religion. Also your above statement, alludes to this deity of yours, which would require it to be substantiated.

    The entire point of life is to test you, so start revising.
    Oh dear, this again. "Life is a test" is another nonsensical cliche. Life isn't a "test" if (assuming your diety exists) is omniscient and thus is already aware of the outcome, an outcome he bears responsibility for, via the authorship of his creation and the doctrine of Qadr/predestination. It doesn't take much scrutiny to realise this.

    As I've said elsewhere, it all brings to question, why such a deity, would author human beings (knowing they won't fit hit his desire of an ideal human) and then go on to punish them, for not fitting into his perception of an ideal human - to whom he, Allah bears responsibility for, due to authoring human beings (knowing they won't fit hit his desire of an ideal human!)

    (Apologies for the double quote, the anonymous post was accidental)
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    (Original post by QE2)
    But all of this would be futile because no matter how much they tried...
    Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment. - Quran 2:6-7
    and
    And We have certainly created for Hell many of the jinn and mankind. - Quran 7:179

    It is like me saying I can't use my car because it has run out petrol, and you saying, "all you have to do is drive it to a petrol station and you can fill up there". It may sound reasonable, but it is impossible due to the restriction that the suggested action is designed to remove.
    If someone is shouting to you over and over warning of a fire and then you put your fingers in your ears and close your eyes, then as the fire is closer to you, the one shouting at you gives you ear buds, you only have yourself to blame for getting burnt.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    the reason I can't marry him is because, in islam, if a muslim girl marries a non muslim guy, the marriage is not valid. I'd literally be sleeping in sin. Yes, I've been with him up until now, but I don't know if I can mentally handle that for the rest of my life. Especially as I'm now finding myself becoming more religious as time has gone on. Don't want to marry him and have kids to just suddenly have a mental breakdown and change my mind about it all one day.

    This is why I stated that Msulims would understand a bit better.
    you have to be honest with yourself - this guy sounds good for you, hes obviously torlerant of you and your islamic background - many wouldnt be. but if you cant give him the equal respect regarding the fact he doesnt want to be a muslim, youll prob need to move on for his sake as well as yours - especially if its more important for you do find someone that will follow islamic doctrines than finding someone decent and good. theres plenty of people that follow doctrines fanatically and look down on others who dont share their beliefs, most people wouldnt want to live with them, but maybe they would be perfect for you
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    (Original post by QE2)
    But it is impossible for me to find him, because it seems he has created me for hell and set a seal on my heart. I cannot do or think anything that Allah has not already decreed. If he has decreed that at some point in the future I will find Islam, then it will happen and no amount of "arrogance" on my part can prevent it. However, if he has decreed that I will go to hell, no amount of effort on my part can prevent it. Inshallah.
    People convert to Islam every single day. Perhaps you may be one of them? Whether it's tomorrow, next year or when you're laying on your death bed, you never know when your heart will open up.

    Allahu alim.
    • #14
    #14

    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    If someone is shouting to you over and over warning of a fire and then you put your fingers in your ears and close your eyes, then as the fire is closer to you, the one shouting at you gives you ear buds, you only have yourself to blame for getting burnt.
    this is a good analogy for how the muslim community treat warnings over islamist ideology
 
 
 
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