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Everyone will be Vegan in the future Watch

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    (Original post by smartguy32)
    They get to eat meat but we don't?
    Wildlife would be unsustainable without predators. You'd have the situation we have in the UK where deer need to be killed because they have no natural predator and keep eating all the trees before they can grow.

    A misconception non-vegans have is that we're all in it for the cutesy feeling we get from happy animals. That's not the case. I have no problem with killing animals in certain situations, hell I'd happily kill them if the human population was suficiently small and we could give up farming and live sustainably as hunter-gatherers.

    The reason I'm in it (recently though tbh, but I'm pretty sure I'll be able to keep it going) is because I want humans to advance beyond their primitive ways and to protect nature.
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    (Original post by smartguy32)
    Your message is important, you are 'right' to be vegan but really it makes zero difference unless everyone is vegan. Which is never going to happen, people like the taste of meat way too much! Therefore the best solution is to have sustainable farming where the animals are treated corrected and euthanized ethically, we are designed biologically to eat meat and plants not either or. We are mammals, mammals are hunter gathers, meaning we hunter and kill prey as well as gather fruit and vegetables. There is nothing ethically wrong about eating meat however the way we get our meat in our current society is disgraceful but being pretentious about your diet wont change anything apart from perhaps converting some less educated( in terms of nutrition) into vegans causing malnutrition.

    The term omnivorous doesn’t mean must eat some animal products. It means capable of subsisting on both plant and animal matter. Of the two, we are able to thrive without eating animals; however, if we eat no plants, we could quickly become malnourished. In fact, decades of scientific evidence have demonstrated that humans have no biological need to consume flesh, eggs or dairy products. We can get all the nutrients we need on a plant-based diet, without the unhealthy animal protein and cholesterol, and without inflicting needless suffering and death on billions of animals.
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    Those who say this isn't going to happen are frankly quite narrow-minded. Food production technology will advance vastly in the future. Hell, we might all be sustaining ourselves with photosynthesis augmentations in a thousand years time
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    (Original post by Mistletoe)
    Wildlife would be unsustainable without predators. You'd have the situation we have in the UK where deer need to be killed because they have no natural predator and keep eating all the trees before they can grow.

    The reason I'm in it (recently though tbh, but I'm pretty sure I'll be able to keep it going) is because I want humans to advance beyond their primitive ways and to protect nature.
    Deers had natural predators which were wolves but they are now extinct in the UK; we need to fix the ecosystem and be coherent with it rather than trying to rise above it.

    If human were to advance beyond there primitive ways ( sounds like something john Stuart mill would say) nasa would have the military budget and i'd be all for that because then we'd have colonised mars (meaning 100% human survival rate) and either we would be able to make synthetic meat by growing just the tissue or perhaps using electrodes to simulate taste while getting all the necessary nutrients from a few pills.

    Unfortunately its more likely humans will go extinct before any significant advancements happens.
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    I think eventually the pure essence of flavour will be manufactured and subsequently mass produced in pill or gelatinous food cube form which would essentially be veganism even if some of the flavours are based on animal meat.
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    (Original post by The_Herbivore)
    The term omnivorous doesn’t mean must eat some animal products. It means capable of subsisting on both plant and animal matter. Of the two, we are able to thrive without eating animals; however, if we eat no plants, we could quickly become malnourished. In fact, decades of scientific evidence have demonstrated that humans have no biological need to consume flesh, eggs or dairy products. We can get all the nutrients we need on a plant-based diet, without the unhealthy animal protein and cholesterol, and without inflicting needless suffering and death on billions of animals.
    You are not wrong we need plants more than meat but we would need to eat a lot more plants as they often have quite a low density of calories. But the truth is the human digestive system has evolved and is best suited for a mix of meat and plants. Can i have a link to your sources about no need to have flesh, eggs or diary products? where do you get your b12 (essential for humans nervous system) from or your creatine etc etc? So yes we do need to consume non-processed meat unless you take supplements.
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    (Original post by smartguy32)
    where do you get your b12
    Turns out you can get it from marmite, but you;d have to eat a hell of alot of marmite to supplement it.
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    (Original post by smartguy32)
    You are not wrong we need plants more than meat but we would need to eat a lot more plants as they often have quite a low density of calories. But the truth is the human digestive system has evolved and is best suited for a mix of meat and plants. Can i have a link to your sources about no need to have flesh, eggs or diary products? where do you get your b12 (essential for humans nervous system) from or your creatine etc etc? So yes we do need to consume non-processed meat unless you take supplements.
    I can easily get over 4000 calories a day now eating calorie dense wholefoods like beans, rice, oats, bananas, avocados and tasty treats like chocolate, biscuits, burgers, pizzas etc

    Meat takes much longer to digest than plants, so I would be interested for you to show me research showing how our digestive system is best suited to both.

    There are many studies showing how we can thrive off a plant-based diet. Im on my phone right now but I found this quick website https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/. Also, the British Dietetic Association recently stated that, ‘Well-planned plant-based, vegan-friendly diets can be devised to support healthy living at every age and life-stage.’

    B12
    "Vitamin B12 is the only nutrient essential to human health that can not be obtained from plants or sunlight. B12 is crucial to normal brain and nervous system function, and to the formation of healthy blood cells. It also plays a central role in DNA synthesis and cell metabolism. And it is sometimes argued that because B12 is not produced by plants, vegan diets are “unnatural” and that ethical appeals to veganism are therefore misguided. But there are several flaws with this objection.
    While it is true that plants do not produce vitamin B12, neither do animals inherently produce it. B12 is produced by bacteria that live in the soil and in the intestines of animals, including humans; however, in humans and other animals, it is generally manufactured too far down the intestinal tract (in the colon, in our case) to be absorbed by us. And while animals in nature can be a source of B12, it’s important to realize that most meat, dairy and eggs come from farmed animals whose feed is supplemented with B12. We would do better to take supplemental B12 directly. Even the USDA states that the best and most absorbable form of B12 for humans is via a supplement."

    Our body creates enough creatine for ourselves, you could supplement If you do strenuous exercise.

    I'd highly recommend watching Dr Michael Greger and Dr Neal Barnard on Youtube for more info.
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    I quite like the idea of being a vegan, but I don't think I could ever see it through.
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    My grandparents would be delighted if I turned either vegan or vegetarian but I think there is more chance of Kanye West becoming the next president of the USA than there is of myself turning either vegan or vegetarian any time soon! :lol:
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    (Original post by Mistletoe)
    it will be looked on as a weird uncivilised thing that humans used to do; eating animals and animal products. There will be "wild land" and there will be "civilised land". Hopefully we'll be able to give a continent or two to the wildlife. Would be healthy to have some Non-human Zones.
    I love your vision of the future. It would certainly be a more peaceful, sustainable way of life. I can't see it happening in our lifetimes or the lifetimes of our children or our grandchildren though.
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    (Original post by The_Herbivore)
    I can easily get over 4000 calories a day now eating calorie dense wholefoods like beans, rice, oats, bananas, avocados and tasty treats like chocolate, biscuits, burgers, pizzas etc

    Meat takes much longer to digest than plants, so I would be interested for you to show me research showing how our digestive system is best suited to both.

    There are many studies showing how we can thrive off a plant-based diet. Im on my phone right now but I found this quick website https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/. Also, the British Dietetic Association recently stated that, ‘Well-planned plant-based, vegan-friendly diets can be devised to support healthy living at every age and life-stage.’

    I'd highly recommend watching Dr Michael Greger and Dr Neal Barnard on Youtube for more info.
    Thats pretty interesting it seems the diet is more sustainable then i though but the case studied just showed cutting out processed junk food reduced glucose levels and cholesterol levels, not necessarily the meat to blame entirely.

    (Dr neal seems to be a pretty cool guy, i'll check out some more of his videos sometime)

    Although one think that concerns me is often soy will be used a substitute in a lot of foods and i think that it has a chemical that mimics oestrogen? So it would upset the balances of hormones, how would a vegan combat this?

    and if our bodies were not adapted to eat meat we wouldn't have canines an we wouldn't be able to process the meat at all, meat is a great source of protein, vitamin A, iron etc.

    Too much meat is bad and too little isn't good either unless you know what you're doing and can eat the right portions of vitamin tablets etc...
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    (Original post by A Mysterious Lord)
    To be fair, people probably will be, meat will eventually become unsustainable.
    Quite likely, yes. Meat is really bad for the environment. But I still eat it.
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    (Original post by smartguy32)
    Thats pretty interesting it seems the diet is more sustainable then i though but the case studied just showed cutting out processed junk food reduced glucose levels and cholesterol levels, not necessarily the meat to blame entirely.

    (Dr neal seems to be a pretty cool guy, i'll check out some more of his videos sometime)

    Although one think that concerns me is often soy will be used a substitute in a lot of foods and i think that it has a chemical that mimics oestrogen? So it would upset the balances of hormones, how would a vegan combat this?

    and if our bodies were not adapted to eat meat we wouldn't have canines an we wouldn't be able to process the meat at all, meat is a great source of protein, vitamin A, iron etc.

    Too much meat is bad and too little isn't good either unless you know what you're doing and can eat the right portions of vitamin tablets etc...
    Rather than assume we evolved canines in order to eat meat, we could consider the possibility that we evolved from a common ancestor that had large canines, but that our relative lack of need for them means that they have shrunk considerably over time.

    As for supplements, I take a flax seed oil capsule in place of cod liver oil and a multivitamin that contains b12.

    There are many great sources of plant based proteins, and easily accessible information on how to combine them to get the right compliment of amino acids. It's not as difficult as you would think

    I've read a lot about soy and from what I can tell there isn't significant evidence either way. One thing to consider however is that cows milk contains mammalian hormones, and that is never questioned.


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    (Original post by Quantex)
    ****ing hell, what a terrible vision of the future. I don't think I could live on a planet where everyone opens a conversation by telling me they are a vegan.
    They wouldn't. That would be assumed.
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    (Original post by FeloniusFunk)
    Those who say this isn't going to happen are frankly quite narrow-minded. Food production technology will advance vastly in the future. Hell, we might all be sustaining ourselves with photosynthesis augmentations in a thousand years time
    I don't think there's enough energy in the light that could hit a human being's surface area to keep a human being going. Plants get away with it by having low metabolisms, making a massive amount of photosynthetic surface area, and not trying to move around.

    I do agree that veganism is the future, though.
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    (Original post by myblueheaven339)
    Rather than assume we evolved canines in order to eat meat, we could consider the possibility that we evolved from a common ancestor that had large canines, but that our relative lack of need for them means that they have shrunk considerably over time.

    As for supplements, I take a flax seed oil capsule in place of cod liver oil and a multivitamin that contains b12.

    There are many great sources of plant based proteins, and easily accessible information on how to combine them to get the right compliment of amino acids. It's not as difficult as you would think

    I've read a lot about soy and from what I can tell there isn't significant evidence either way. One thing to consider however is that cows milk contains mammalian hormones, and that is never questioned.


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    When humans started to use sharp stones as cutting tools it eliminated the pressure to have sharp canine teeth and strong jaws which are typical adaptation of carnivores and when humans began cooking there food around 200,000 years ago it made meat easier to cut and chew thus reduce the size of teeth over time, so the lack of need of large canine teeth wasn't due to lacking the need of meat just our ingenuity.

    Thats cool, i would have imagined it was a lot more tedious to get the right dietary requirements and yeah drinking milk is weird, it probably contains hormones that we don't need but im not aware of any that have an adverse affect apart from maybe causing or increasing the risk of acne. Although 60% of people ish can digest milk or do so in a reduced way. A glass of milk has half the daily allowance of b12 and has vitamen d i believe as well as being a source for lactose ( which benefits some of us).

    (just did some quick research on milk)
    I couldnt find any coherent results, some research suggested the hormones caused a decrease in testosterone and an increase in oestrogen but other studies showed the opposite effect, so this remains unclear. The main conclusion was milk shouldn't be consumed in excess and it is fine as long as it can be digested appropriately in small amounts i.e a bowl of cereal but it depends on the person what is the correct portion, "One person’s food can indeed be another persons poison." So i imagine the same can be applied to soy, its alright as long as it isnt used in excess and as a substitute.
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    (Original post by smartguy32)
    Thats pretty interesting it seems the diet is more sustainable then i though but the case studied just showed cutting out processed junk food reduced glucose levels and cholesterol levels, not necessarily the meat to blame entirely.

    (Dr neal seems to be a pretty cool guy, i'll check out some more of his videos sometime)

    Although one think that concerns me is often soy will be used a substitute in a lot of foods and i think that it has a chemical that mimics oestrogen? So it would upset the balances of hormones, how would a vegan combat this?

    and if our bodies were not adapted to eat meat we wouldn't have canines an we wouldn't be able to process the meat at all, meat is a great source of protein, vitamin A, iron etc.

    Too much meat is bad and too little isn't good either unless you know what you're doing and can eat the right portions of vitamin tablets etc...
    Yes, soy does contain phytoestrogen (plant oestrogen) but in reality, clinical studies show that phytoestrogen does not significantly affect hormone levels. And in fact, all animal products contain animal oestrogen which does alter hormone levels. I just consume in moderation to be sure.

    The truth is that nearly all mammals have canine teeth. Many herbivores and primary plant-eaters have ferocious canine teeth; in fact, the largest canine teeth of any land animal belongs to the hippo, a true herbivore.

    We are omnivores which means that we have the evolutionary advantage to eat both, when food is scarce. We can thrive off a plant-based diet like many have.
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    (Original post by smartguy32)
    When humans started to use sharp stones as cutting tools it eliminated the pressure to have sharp canine teeth and strong jaws which are typical adaptation of carnivores and when humans began cooking there food around 200,000 years ago it made meat easier to cut and chew thus reduce the size of teeth over time, so the lack of need of large canine teeth wasn't due to lacking the need of meat just our ingenuity.

    Thats cool, i would have imagined it was a lot more tedious to get the right dietary requirements and yeah drinking milk is weird, it probably contains hormones that we don't need but im not aware of any that have an adverse affect apart from maybe causing or increasing the risk of acne. Although 60% of people ish can digest milk or do so in a reduced way. A glass of milk has half the daily allowance of b12 and has vitamen d i believe as well as being a source for lactose ( which benefits some of us).

    (just did some quick research on milk)
    I couldnt find any coherent results, some research suggested the hormones caused a decrease in testosterone and an increase in oestrogen but other studies showed the opposite effect, so this remains unclear. The main conclusion was milk shouldn't be consumed in excess and it is fine as long as it can be digested appropriately in small amounts i.e a bowl of cereal but it depends on the person what is the correct portion, "One person’s food can indeed be another persons poison." So i imagine the same can be applied to soy, its alright as long as it isnt used in excess and as a substitute.
    I see your point about the tools, however even early man wouldn't (to my knowledge) have had the type of large and sharp canines we see on modern carnivores before they started using tools. Additionally, the gorilla eats an almost exclusively plant based diet yet has large and sharp teeth. So I guess what I'm saying is I don't know for sure what the shape of our teeth tells us about our diet. I do however know that the length of our gut corresponds more to that of herbivores than carnivores.

    I agree with you about what you've said about hormones in both milk and soy. I just find it odd that very few people ever question milk, I assume because it has become such a normal part of our day to day diet. For me it's a no brainier, I can't digest milk so I don't have it! And yes again I agree, eating any food to excess is likely to lead to an unbalanced diet lacking in something. Understanding the food you eat and making sure you get the correct vitamins, minerals etc is important for anyone. Many omnivores are also likely to be deficient in b12, they just don't think about it because they assume because they eat meat they aren't lacking anything.


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    As a proud meat eater, I hope it doesn't happen but I think it is possible everyone will be vegan in the future. Not in our lifetimes though.

    I think we are heading in the direction as a society of caring more and more about animals which I don't agree with. If we are a national of animal lovers as many people claim, surely the main thing to address would be the millions of animals slaughtered every year for us to eat. We should not give a **** about animals and own it.
 
 
 
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