University applications down by 5% Watch

999tigger
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38827189

It is the first fall in UK applications since fees were last increased in 2012.
Universities Minister Jo Johnsonhas focused on the rise to record levels of 18 year olds applying to uni, ip to 37% now.

The main falls are:

Nursing down 23% following the ending of bursaries and replacement with loans.
EU students down 7% (imo probably due to uncertainities and worries over Brexit)
19 year olds down 9%
25 year olds down 23%

Scotland down 2%
N Ireland down 5%
England down 6%
Wales down 7%

Is this just a blip or the sign that the Uni market has peaked? Considering the cost v benefits I would definitely suggest some people are better off not getting 30-50k in debt and would be better following a different path imo.
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Joinedup
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(Original post by 999tigger)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38827189

It is the first fall in UK applications since fees were last increased in 2012.
Universities Minister Jo Johnsonhas focused on the rise to record levels of 18 year olds applying to uni, ip to 37% now.

The main falls are:

Nursing down 23% following the ending of bursaries and replacement with loans.
EU students down 7% (imo probably due to uncertainities and worries over Brexit)
19 year olds down 9%
25 year olds down 23%

Scotland down 2%
N Ireland down 5%
England down 6%
Wales down 7%

Is this just a blip or the sign that the Uni market has peaked? Considering the cost v benefits I would definitely suggest some people are better off not getting 30-50k in debt and would be better following a different path imo.
but 18 year olds up

The increases to fees were telegraphed in advance so I'd suppose more of last years 18 year old cohort decided to postpone their gap yahs and lock in at the 9000 rate rather than apply this year as 19 year olds
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Willy Pete
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The state of universities in the UK is a joke, but then the Government couldn't give a toss that young people are racking up huge debt to them which they aren't going to get back. Currently the figure sits at around 70% will not pay back their loan in full.
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username2228735
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(Original post by 999tigger)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38827189

It is the first fall in UK applications since fees were last increased in 2012.
Universities Minister Jo Johnsonhas focused on the rise to record levels of 18 year olds applying to uni, ip to 37% now.

The main falls are:

Nursing down 23% following the ending of bursaries and replacement with loans.
EU students down 7% (imo probably due to uncertainities and worries over Brexit)
19 year olds down 9%
25 year olds down 23%

Scotland down 2%
N Ireland down 5%
England down 6%
Wales down 7%

Is this just a blip or the sign that the Uni market has peaked? Considering the cost v benefits I would definitely suggest some people are better off not getting 30-50k in debt and would be better following a different path imo.
The article draws on a number of conclusions without giving much evidence to prove causality. I would be much more interested in a course-by-course breakdown in numbers.
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Doones
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(Original post by Aceadria)
The article draws on a number of conclusions without giving much evidence to prove causality. I would be much more interested in a course-by-course breakdown in numbers.
https://www.ucas.com/file/92621/download?token=DX3KK1Vq

From https://www.ucas.com/corporate/data-...nuary-deadline

From a quick glance it is down across the board with the biggest decline in "subjects allied to medicine" (-15%). Medicine itself is down 4%.

Correction!
Now I've actually looked at it, not all courses are down.
Maths +3%
Architecture +3%
Social Studies +2%
Law +2%
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username2228735
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(Original post by jneill)
https://www.ucas.com/file/92621/download?token=DX3KK1Vq

From https://www.ucas.com/corporate/data-...nuary-deadline

From a quick glance it seems down across the board with biggest decline in medicine.
Thank you for posting this. The data is a lot more detailed and allows us to notice some interesting trends:

a) The drop in non-EU applications is most notable in the Arts and Humanities (Non-European Langs. Lit & related being the highest at 36%) with STEM experiencing an overall increase (despite Medicine's 8% decline);

b) EU applications are more or less down across the board, with Medicine and related subjects experiencing a large drop;

c) UK applications are equally low, with the change in Medicine being relatively irrelevant (-1%) whereas the increase in Law applications is interesting.

Again, this data cannot allow us to draw conclusions as to why these changes are there. One can hypothesise but not draw exact conclusions.
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Reality Check
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(Original post by jneill)
https://www.ucas.com/file/92621/download?token=DX3KK1Vq

From https://www.ucas.com/corporate/data-...nuary-deadline

From a quick glance it is down across the board with the biggest decline in "subjects allied to medicine" (-15%). Medicine itself is down 4%.
The AHP course decline is entirely understandable - most students will be losing a maintenance bursary of £6000+. Given that a lot of AHP students are graduates or mature students changing careers, often with families and other financial commitments, it's going to hit them very hard.
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username2228735
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
So increased tuition fees fall almost entirely on those of us who have useful degrees... great.

Or perhaps "David Beckham studies" students are too thick to realise that their degrees are basically free, and the tuition fee rises scare them off anyway.
Perhaps the return on investment becomes all too real.
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Willy Pete
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
So increased tuition fees fall almost entirely on those of us who have useful degrees... great.

Or perhaps "David Beckham studies" students are too thick to realise that their degrees are basically free, and the tuition fee rises scare them off anyway.
It will fall on productive members of society, regardless of their degree status.
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210555
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(Original post by Aceadria)
Perhaps the return on investment becomes all too real.
I suspect you are on the right lines here. It's not just the 9000 tuition fee but the maintenance loan as well. If we assume an average £15,000 per annum then you are looking at £45,000 after three years plus interest. More and more are staying at home to keep the costs down which is a shame as part of university is to gain independence and grow in other ways.

The harsh reality is we have to look at graduate outcomes and a degree is no longer a ticket to a high paying job. STEM subjects "appear" to fare better than humanities ( I may be wrong). I know someone who after three years doing a business degree is now working in admin earning £15k a year. She got a 2:1 from a very good uni. Ask her and she will say, from an employment point of view, the graduate market is so competitive and her degree hasn't helped. She regrets going now although she did have a fantastic time there.
Sad 😞😞
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ozo
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(Original post by 210555)
I suspect you are on the right lines here. It's not just the 9000 tuition fee but the maintenance loan as well. If we assume an average £15,000 per annum then you are looking at £45,000 after three years plus interest. More and more are staying at home to keep the costs down which is a shame as part of university is to gain independence and grow in other ways.

The harsh reality is we have to look at graduate outcomes and a degree is no longer a ticket to a high paying job. STEM subjects "appear" to fare better than humanities ( I may be wrong). I know someone who after three years doing a business degree is now working in admin earning £15,000k a year. She got a 2:1 from a very good uni. Ask her and she will say, from an employment point of view, the graduate market is so competitive and her degree hasn't helped. She regrets going now although she did have a fantastic time there.
Sad 😞😞
15,000k a year? Earning £15 million a year working in admin doesn't sound too bad to me ;-)
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210555
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(Original post by ozo)
15,000k a year? Earning £15 million a year working in admin doesn't sound too bad to me ;-)
Ha Ha well spotted I meant 15k 😜😜😜 Will edit my post thanks
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Doones
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
Yes, but people taking Mickey Mouse degrees probably don't know or care about employability; many are just taking 3 years out to party, subsidised by the rest of us.
Define "Mickey Mouse degrees".

(And here's a clue: Golf Management isn't an acceptable reply.)
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Drewski
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(Original post by jneill)
Define "Mickey Mouse degrees".

(And here's a clue: Golf Management isn't an acceptable reply.)
American studies? :holmes:
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Sakisaka
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If that means there's less competition for me i'm fine
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auburnstar
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(Original post by Sakisaka)
If that means there's less competition for me i'm fine
same lmao
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PQ
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
A degree which results in no statistically significant increase of a person's employability.

(Thank you for your clue.)
So a degree's value is only in terms of income?
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PQ
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
Give me an example of a worthwhile degree that doesn't increase employability.
http://www.independent.co.uk/student...-10389746.html
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
He is almost certainly more employable than before. Retirement doesn’t necessarily mean closing the door on employment.
SO which degrees don't boost employability then?

Maybe you tell us specifically what degrees you're talking about?
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Retired_Messiah
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
Give me an example of a worthwhile degree that doesn't increase employability.
No degree ever reduces employability, so given that having any degree can allow you to access a small handful of graduate programs, does this not mean that technically every degree increases employability?

Or have I missed a bit?
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