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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    As long as there's demands from Americans and guns from the US, the drug problem will not go away.

    Ever if the US invades and doesn't go away, the best case scenario is the "Frontier" goes south, and closer to where most drugs are made (eg Colombia).
    The problem of violent border towns started around 15-20 yrs. ago and has grown into the horrendous problem it is in the last 4-5 yrs.. On the Mex. side a lot of it doesn't make the news. The Cartels were used to a growing demand from the U.S. but that's not the case now. they've even flooded U.S. streets with cheap heroine in the hopes of increasing demand.
    These Cartels are huge Organizations and need huge revenues to function. Without a growing market theses Cartels have turned on each other hoping to eliminate the competition.
    If Mex. wanted the Cartels gone they would be gone. The truth is too much money is made from the drug trade. Another reason why Trump should make them pay for the wall.
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    Not only should they take the offer they should have begged for it already.

    The drug problem in Mexico is serious isn't it something like over 100k of people die a year because of the cartels?


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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    The problem of violent border towns started around 15-20 yrs. ago and has grown into the horrendous problem it is in the last 4-5 yrs.. On the Mex. side a lot of it doesn't make the news. The Cartels were used to a growing demand from the U.S. but that's not the case now. they've even flooded U.S. streets with cheap heroine in the hopes of increasing demand.
    These Cartels are huge Organizations and need huge revenues to function. Without a growing market theses Cartels have turned on each other hoping to eliminate the competition.
    If Mex. wanted the Cartels gone they would be gone. The truth is too much money is made from the drug trade. Another reason why Trump should make them pay for the wall.
    A country's border is its own responsibility. They can request Mexico to build a wall, and Mexico has indeed now had somewhat of a border between it and Guatemala due to US's insistence. But you can't do something and expect someone else to bear the costs, ever if you do see the other party as the one at fault.

    That'd be like Mexico seeing Verbal Central Americans as US's fault and expects the US to pay for a wall on the Guatemalan border.

    This is without pointing the fact that the violence is due largely to the US. Mexico has stricter gun laws so where do they get the guns? They buy them *easily* from the US and since the US doesn't screen outgoing people from their territories by land, they go into Mexican border towns very easily. So perhaps Mexico should build a wall to stop American guns and ask Trump to pay for it?
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Not only should they take the offer they should have begged for it already.

    The drug problem in Mexico is serious isn't it something like over 100k of people die a year because of the cartels?


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    No. 100k was for *seven* years in total. That's roughly 1.5 years of gun deaths in the US.

    People have the idea that Mexico is much worse than the US for crimes when in reality crime rates are the same and the deaths don't normally affect normal people, especially those not near the border.
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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    A country's border is its own responsibility. They can request Mexico to build a wall, and Mexico has indeed now had somewhat of a border between it and Guatemala due to US's insistence. But you can't do something and expect someone else to bear the costs, ever if you do see the other party as the one at fault.

    That'd be like Mexico seeing Verbal Central Americans as US's fault and expects the US to pay for a wall on the Guatemalan border.

    This is without pointing the fact that the violence is due largely to the US. Mexico has stricter gun laws so where do they get the guns? They buy them *easily* from the US and since the US doesn't screen outgoing people from their territories by land, they go into Mexican border towns very easily. So perhaps Mexico should build a wall to stop American guns and ask Trump to pay for it?
    If the US Gov. was profiting from illegal activity on the Guatemalan border then Mex. would have every right to ask the US to pay for construction of a wall IMO.

    These Cartels are worth billions now. They can buy arms from anywhere in the world. It's nice to think the wall will help keep guns out of Mex. But it won't because Mex. custums is easily bought.
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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    A country's border is its own responsibility. They can request Mexico to build a wall, and Mexico has indeed now had somewhat of a border between it and Guatemala due to US's insistence. But you can't do something and expect someone else to bear the costs, ever if you do see the other party as the one at fault.

    That'd be like Mexico seeing Verbal Central Americans as US's fault and expects the US to pay for a wall on the Guatemalan border.

    This is without pointing the fact that the violence is due largely to the US. Mexico has stricter gun laws so where do they get the guns? They buy them *easily* from the US and since the US doesn't screen outgoing people from their territories by land, they go into Mexican border towns very easily. So perhaps Mexico should build a wall to stop American guns and ask Trump to pay for it?
    To my knowledge Mex. doesn't manufacture many firearms so why wouldn't the Mex. Pres. want to at least contribute to a border wall to slow the flow of arms into Mex. as you suggest in your last sentence? Because virtually every official who has a say in border control is making something off everything illegal that comes across the border.










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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    No. 100k was for *seven* years in total. That's roughly 1.5 years of gun deaths in the US.

    People have the idea that Mexico is much worse than the US for crimes when in reality crime rates are the same and the deaths don't normally affect normal people, especially those not near the border.
    "...and the deaths don't affect " normal people." That's a strange thing to say. Just so you know, we're not talking about sleepy little border towns you have seen in cowboy westerns. These are large towns with pop. in the 10 thousands. There are small gun battles almost nightly in some of them and on a regular basis large gun battles where dozens are killed. The civilian casualty rate is what you might expect from any other war zone.
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    This was a hoax news story, confirmed both by the US and Mexican administrations. People just want to hear anything terrible about Trump.
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    (Original post by The Good Doctor)
    This was a hoax news story, confirmed both by the US and Mexican administrations. People just want to hear anything terrible about Trump.
    And people pretend the fake news is only pro trump smh

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    And people pretend the fake news is only pro trump smh

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    :rofl: nah fake news is for everyone

    It's a "Brave New World"

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    (Original post by Willy Pete)
    Well Trump is right that Mexico does have a serious and out of control problem with the Cartels.

    A documentary worth watching on the subject is Cartel Land. It does paint a rather worrying picture.
    America has a problem with gangs. Given that America First is the motto, how do you justify sending troops to another country while not having sorted out your **** at home?
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    (Original post by Tempest II)
    Yeah I agree Mexico would need to be redrawn. It currently has 31 states. As slightly crazy as the idea may sound, I do actually think in the long term it could help both nations. Standards in Mexico will rise, crime should go down, a massive influx of people to the labour market would boost the US economy etc. Unfortunately in the short term it'd be borderline chaos even if the majority of both nations voted to merge which is quite possibly a long shot. The average wage in Mexico doesn't come anywhere close to the US so, for a time, the US would be propping up Mexico like West Germany did to the Eastern side after the wall fell in '91. But now Germany is an industrial powerhouse.
    An American merge with Canada is probably more appealing although perhaps not to the Canadians as they'd lose their free healthcare & other benefits.
    The West is still propping up the East...East Germany is a shithole, more or less, unemployment, poorly educated, breeding ground of AfD and even more sinister nationalists.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    America has a problem with gangs. Given that America First is the motto, how do you justify sending troops to another country while not having sorted out your **** at home?
    I thought the left loved preventative measures.

    If the problem stems from abroad, then it makes sense to go there are cut the head off the problem, prevent the problem becoming domestic in the first place.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I thought the left loved preventative measures.

    If the problem stems from abroad, then it makes sense to go there are cut the head off the problem, prevent the problem becoming domestic in the first place.

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    A) You are assuming that the problem comes from abroad and B) you are discounting preventative measures at home.

    As usual, only what suits your agenda is considered by you.
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    To my knowledge Mex. doesn't manufacture many firearms so why wouldn't the Mex. Pres. want to at least contribute to a border wall to slow the flow of arms into Mex. as you suggest in your last sentence? Because virtually every official who has a say in border control is making something off everything illegal that comes across the border.
    1. You said the Mexican government had benefited from the drug trade. So there's no reason for them to stop it.
    2. You said if the government had been benefiting from an activity, they should pay for the wall. The US clearly benefited from the gun trade.

    As it turns out by your logic the US should indeed pay for the wall.

    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    "...and the deaths don't affect " normal people." That's a strange thing to say. Just so you know, we're not talking about sleepy little border towns you have seen in cowboy westerns. These are large towns with pop. in the 10 thousands. There are small gun battles almost nightly in some of them and on a regular basis large gun battles where dozens are killed. The civilian casualty rate is what you might expect from any other war zone.
    First of all, since the new administration in 2012, the drug war has basically ended. Go ask any Mexican on the border and they will tell you that.

    Secondly, the fact that border towns have a 7-figure population explains a high raw number, and big cities always have a higher crime rate.

    Thirdly, I said especially those not on the border. US and Mexico have identical crime rates overall.

    (Original post by The Good Doctor)
    This was a hoax news story, confirmed both by the US and Mexican administrations. People just want to hear anything terrible about Trump.
    White House said he said it in jest. If Madonna could be reported to have threatened to blow up the White House (when she clearly meant since she's choosing love she's my doing that) and should be investigated for that comment, what's wrong with reporting this?
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    A) You are assuming that the problem comes from abroad and B) you are discounting preventative measures at home.

    As usual, only what suits your agenda is considered by you.
    You mean that when the problem of drugs coming from abroad it is not a reasonable assumption that the problem is coming from abroad? :confused:

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    What if mexico wants to take care of the bad naranja hombre?
    Should they send in their troops?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    You mean that when the problem of drugs coming from abroad it is not a reasonable assumption that the problem is coming from abroad? :confused:

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    It's a supply driven market then?

    The heroin epidemic suggests otherwise. It is clearly driven by the economic downturn in those small towns.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    It's a supply driven market then?

    The heroin epidemic suggests otherwise. It is clearly driven by the economic downturn in those small towns.
    Doesn't change the fact that a lot of the drugs come from outside the advanced economies.

    Personally I'd deal with it as a demand side issue, harshly punish users that are caught (with rehab during their punishment to deal with addictions). The countries that do so have the lowest usages, and speaking to people I know they agree, it's easy to replace mules and dealers, but you can't replace the users.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Doesn't change the fact that a lot of the drugs come from outside the advanced economies.

    Personally I'd deal with it as a demand side issue, harshly punish users that are caught (with rehab during their punishment to deal with addictions). The countries that do so have the lowest usages, and speaking to people I know they agree, it's easy to replace mules and dealers, but you can't replace the users.

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    But you are again just treating the symptom, drug abuse, not what leads people to drugs.
 
 
 
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