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    AishaGirl

    This is just a general enquiry, but do you recognise any connection between Islamic teachings and terrorism?
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    (Original post by Count Bezukhov)
    No, but Muslims as a whole need to recognise why many Westerners feel hostile towards Islam. Mainly, that all recent terror attacks in Europe have been perpetrated by Muslims, in the name of Islam, with theocratic justification from some parts of the Qur'an. No one is saying that "all Muslims" are terrorists, obviously that's incorrect. But it is also undeniable that violence seems to be far more prevalent amongst Muslims too.

    Additionally, whenever Islam is (rightly) criticised for issues such as women's rights, gay rights, and general hostility towards outside groups, Muslims instantly take the defensive position and claim they're "not real Muslims", when such views evidently are held by large swathes of the Middle Eastern population, and even a substantial number of people here in Britain. Meanwhile, girls in Germany are being advised to cover up so as not to 'offend' refugees, French publishers dare not make a satirical comic book about religious figures, and people are wondering why people associate Islam with violence and other bad things?

    I also find it deeply unsettling that Muslims believe that all non-Muslims are going to burn in hell for eternity, and apparently are fine with this and think it is deserved, simply for not being a Muslim due to being born into a different part of the world. Although, this does of course apply to other religions, but is no less unsettling.

    But to address the OP, 'Islamophobia' has essentially taken on the new meaning that anyone who even vaguely questions the tenets of Islam is apparently a monstrous bigot.
    I agree with most of your points however don't you think there is a sense of hypocrisy amongst westerners in general? They usually turn a blind eye to atrocities which their own governments/people have committed ie. The Iraq War, The Afghanistan War, even the KKK who also acted in the name of Christianity. Also let's not forget what the Bible preaches about gay rights, womens rights and non-believers also.

    I also think it is unfair to say most atrocities have been committed by Muslims-I don't believe you can be of ANY religion and commit such atrocities, as it is a complete oxymoron. I do think Islamophobia is a rational fear to have, however it has massively been blown out of proportion by the media.
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    (Original post by AishaGirl)
    So why are you fearful from muslims in general if 100% of the muslims you know are nice people? You are fearing that which is incredibly unlikely. the opposite would be like feeling confident about winning the lottery.



    I believe your concerns about being killed by an islamic terrorist attack are irrational.

    You live in fear, you are scared, you are weak, this is not my problem. If a terrorist flies a plane into a building, will you cancel your flight the next day?

    If a truck plows down people in a market, will you not go shopping the next day? I bet 99% of the time when you are out and about in public you never look over your shoulder and think "I wonder if today is the die I get killed by a terrorist" so don't sit there and try to tell me that your fears a rational, they are as irrational a fear as it gets.

    Like people fearing walking under a bridge because they think it might collapse on them.
    Ok, fear of something that has happened, and can happen again isn't irrational. I agreed with you on placing more fear on it than something more likely to happen being a product of manipulation. But terrorist attacks have and can happen. That is a valid fear they can happen. Just because something is more dangerous, doesn't mean you shouldn't be concerned over something less dangerous.

    I have fully comprehensive insurance for my car. It's more likely I'll be in an accident than it being stolen or set on fire, I still insure it against fire and theft though.

    Yes 100% of the Muslim people I know are currently of no threat to me or people I know. But they believe in things that I disagree with and are fundamentally incompatible with my own, and western ideology on the whole. That they are currently powerless to do anything about it means they are relatively benign. But I still hold a rational concern that they have beliefs based upon an ideology that includes violence and oppression.
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    (Original post by _gcx)
    AishaGirl

    This is just a general enquiry, but do you recognise any connection between Islamic teachings and terrorism?
    I believe there are individuals that go to the extreme either because they are brain washed or because they have mental issues.

    You do realise that of the 1.6billion Muslims on Earth, less than 0.1% of them are terrorists? Some might have anti western views or whatever but they respect the laws and do not massacre innocent people.

    Let's not forget that governments can commit acts of terrorism as well, like bombing an innocent country to dust and killing magnitudes more innocents then all terrorist attacks by muslims combined.
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    (Original post by _gcx)
    AishaGirl

    This is just a general enquiry, but do you recognise any connection between Islamic teachings and terrorism?
    Will be interesting to see if she responds to this or ignores it. Anyone who can't see the link between Islam and terroism is in denial. Most morons tend to respond with the no true Scotsman fallacy.

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    (Original post by BigYoSpeck)
    Ok, fear of something that has happened, and can happen again isn't irrational. I agreed with you on placing more fear on it than something more likely to happen being a product of manipulation. But terrorist attacks have and can happen. That is a valid fear they can happen. Just because something is more dangerous, doesn't mean you shouldn't be concerned over something less dangerous.

    I have fully comprehensive insurance for my car. It's more likely I'll be in an accident than it being stolen or set on fire, I still insure it against fire and theft though.
    Well I guess your right, I guess it's rational and logical to fear an asteroid falling on your head too. Time to expand your insurance plan.


    Yes 100% of the Muslim people I know are currently of no threat to me or people I know. But they believe in things that I disagree with and are fundamentally incompatible with my own, and western ideology on the whole. That they are currently powerless to do anything about it means they are relatively benign. But I still hold a rational concern that they have beliefs based upon an ideology that includes violence and oppression.
    Do not concern yourself with their beliefs. So their beliefs are drastically different to yours, so what? Besides they can't be that different if you, an open atheist are friends with them.

    Relax dude stop being paranoid.
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    (Original post by AishaGirl)
    I believe there are individuals that go to the extreme either because they are brain washed or because they have mental issues.

    You do realise that of the 1.6billion Muslims on Earth, less than 0.1% of them are terrorists? Some might have anti western views or whatever but they respect the laws and do not massacre innocent people.

    Let's not forget that governments can commit acts of terrorism as well, like bombing an innocent country to dust and killing magnitudes more innocents then all terrorist attacks by muslims combined.
    Purely blaming the extremists is a typical response. However, as Sam Harris once cleverly pointed out, it's the extremist from religions with inherently violent ideas who kill people. For instance, a Muslim who adheres to a fundemental/ extreme version of Islam such (such as Wahabbism) will want to spread his ideology through violence.

    However compare this to Jainism, where the central tenets are non-violence and harmlessness. An extreme jainist will go out of their way to prevent any suffering or death, no matter how miniscule. This means breathing and drinking through mesh cloth, so as to not swallow a fly, or calculating every single steps so as not to step on an ant. Most Jainist don't do such behaviours, only the extremists.

    The more extreme or radicalised a Jainist is, the less we should fear. The more extreme or radicalised a Muslim is, the more we should fear. Therefore problem is not extremists per se. It's the central violent teachings in Islam.
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    (Original post by AishaGirl)
    I believe there are individuals that go to the extreme either because they are brain washed (1,2) or because they have mental issues.(3)

    You do realise that of the 1.6billion Muslims on Earth, less than 0.1% of them are terrorists? (4) Some might have anti western views (5) or whatever but they respect the laws and do not massacre innocent people. (6)

    Let's not forget that governments can commit acts of terrorism as well, like bombing an innocent country to dust and killing magnitudes more innocents then all terrorist attacks by muslims combined (7)
    Ignoring the fact that you dodged my question completely,

    1. Are extreme views coherent with, or frowned upon, by Islam?
    2. Define "brain-washed".
    3. Not all extremists have mental/emotional issues, that is an absolutely absurd claim/
    4. This is completely dodging the question.
    5. I don't care about Anti-Western views. They are entitled to hold them. I could be perceived as Anti-Western due to my political views.
    6. Yes, I know. I am not saying all Muslims are terrorists. Very few people make that argument. I'm saying that there is a connection between terrorism and the scripture itself. (Jihad for example)
    7. I agree here.
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    (Original post by DeHumanisation)
    They dont have the time or the inclination to look beyond the tabloid dross; they swallow up all the propaganda lock stock and barrel. Plus they wouldn't have the morality to really understand the benefits of salat, zakat, dawah, shahada etc
    1. Can you provide examples of this propaganda?
    2. Who are you to question someone's morality? What makes your morality correct, and theirs incorrect?
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    (Original post by AishaGirl)
    Well I guess your right, I guess it's rational and logical to fear an asteroid falling on your head too. Time to expand your insurance plan.
    I do fear that it's a very real disaster that could happen. I assume you wouldn't fear it because come armageddon you will be judged to be worthy of paradise, but I don't believe in that so I want existing life to continue and welcome the scientific research and progress that could avert it.

    (Original post by AishaGirl)
    Do not concern yourself with their beliefs. So their beliefs are drastically different to yours, so what? Besides they can't be that different if you, an open atheist are friends with them.

    Relax dude stop being paranoid.
    Why do you concern yourself with my concerns of the Islamic ideology? I wouldn't ever initiate force against you, so what that the things that concern me are drastically different to you. Relax and stop being paranoid.
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    (Original post by habeas.corpus)
    Purely blaming the extremists is a typical response. However, as Sam Harris once cleverly pointed out, it's the extremist from religions with inherently violent ideas who kill people. For instance, a Muslim who adheres to a fundemental/ extreme version of Islam such (such as Wahabbism) will want to spread his ideology through violence.

    However compare this to Jainism, where the central tenets are non-violence and harmlessness. An extreme jainist will go out of their way to prevent any suffering or death, no matter how miniscule. This means breathing and drinking through mesh cloth, so as to not swallow a fly, or calculating every single steps so as not to step on an ant. Most Jainist don't do such behaviours, only the extremists.

    The more extreme or radicalised a Jainist is, the less we should fear. The more extreme or radicalised a Muslim is, the more we should fear. Therefore problem is not extremists per se. It's the central violent teachings in Islam.
    Interesting point.
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    (Original post by _gcx)
    Ignoring the fact that you dodged my question completely
    I answered your question. I said terrorist attacks can be traced back to certain verses in the Quran but these verses are often taken out of context and the terrorists who act based on those verses often do not understand what the verse means.

    I also never said ALL extremists have mental issues, please don't put words in my mouth.
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    (Original post by S.olk)
    I think the issue is that the media and our politicians stir up uneccessary fear in people in regards to Islam. No one really wants to find out what Islam is really about-
    because no one knows what Islam is really about.

    There is not one Islam : there are many. And they may totally disagree not only in doctrine and practices, but also on who is a Muslim and who isn't.

    So, while we can of course focus on some sort of "mainstream" (both for Sunnis and for Shias) it's next to impossible to judge Islam as a whole

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    (Original post by BigYoSpeck)
    Why do you concern yourself with my concerns of the Islamic ideology? I wouldn't ever initiate force against you, so what that the things that concern me are drastically different to you. Relax and stop being paranoid.
    I'm pretty sure you quoted me first, you concerned yourself with my opinions, not the other way around.
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    (Original post by AishaGirl)
    You do realise that of the 1.6billion Muslims on Earth, less than 0.1% of them are terrorists?.
    So, we will have to deal with less than 1.6 million Muslim terrorists

    well, that's a huge relief

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    OK, let's all be brutally honest here, Muslims and non Muslims alike and say it like it is. Muslims should NEVER have been allowed to settle in the West in the first place in the 1950's and '60's. Their ideology and beliefs are incompatible with the West. The two sides live in a parallel existence. Because they have to, not necessarily because they want to.
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    So, we will have to deal with less than 1.6 million Muslim terrorists

    well, that's a huge relief

    best
    99.9% of which are in middle eastern countries where your interference is not wanted. Let the Muslims of those countries and their governments deal with them.


    we will have to deal with
    I repeat, let those countries deal with them. The ones that are in the west or come to the west, let the west deal with them.
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    (Original post by markova21)
    OK, let's all be brutally honest here, Muslims and non Muslims alike and say it like it is. Muslims should NEVER have been allowed to settle in the West in the first place in the 1950's and '60's. Their ideology and beliefs are incompatible with the West. The two sides live in a parallel existence. Because they have to, not necessarily because they want to.
    Lol the ignorance. Maybe you shouldn't have invaded the Middle East
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    The truth is people are just ignorant, maybe it has a lot to do with upbringing. The statistics say it all lol, you're more likely to die falling out of your bed/from lightning/by a toddler with a gun than from islamic extremism. Criticize the religion if you wish, but saying "because Muslims bomb things bla bla bla" is an extremely stupid thing to say. People just need to interact with Muslims. I'm grateful for being raised in London, so many ethnicities, races, religions. So fk off with your ignorance
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    (Original post by zezno)
    Lol the ignorance. Maybe you shouldn't have invaded the Middle East
    *I* haven't invaded anyone, thank you very much. I hear this all the time. So what you mean is, and be honest; that you all come here to punish us? That your grandparents came here, not to better themselves, but out of hatred of Imperialist Britain? Be honest; is that really what Muslims think?
 
 
 
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