Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    • Very Important Poster
    Online

    19
    (Original post by Josb)
    I perfectly know that. She was betrothed at 6 and the marriage was consummated at 9. The man who had sex with a 9yo cannot be a role model, end of.
    She was betrothed at 9/10 and consumated when 14/15.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 999tigger)
    She was betrothed at 9/10 and consumated when 14/15.
    That is far from being the consensual view of her age, and what most Muslims believe.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    The verse in question is talking about in TIMES OF WAR and it was only allowed for the Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him to use.
    • Very Important Poster
    Online

    19
    (Original post by Josb)
    That is far from being the consensual view of her age, and what most Muslims believe.
    Didnt realise you spoke for most muslims. I will pyt a ppoll up later asking the ones on TSR what they think.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Didnt realise you spoke for most muslims. I will pyt a ppoll up later asking the ones on TSR what they think.
    Please do it.
    • #1
    #1

    (Original post by Josb)
    That is far from being the consensual view of her age, and what most Muslims believe.
    can guarantee most muslims dont know / dont care
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Josb)
    That is far from being the consensual view of her age, and what most Muslims believe.
    As expected, I was banned for exposing this death cult. The TSR moderators are proud ass lickers of pedophile muhamhead
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    Close thread too?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by carpetguy)
    Close thread too?
    Why? I'm glad over 2000 TSR users have seen the true colours of islam.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by epoddoulc4)
    Why? I'm glad over 2000 TSR users have seen the true colours of islam.
    Ok
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by carpetguy)
    Ok
    It's just too easy to defeat a mudslime in a debate
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Josb)
    I perfectly know that. She was betrothed at 6 and the marriage was consummated at 9. The man who had sex with a 9yo cannot be a role model, end of.
    But he was alive in a Medieval Period where such an act was not considered to be wrong.

    Like I said, Muslims don't aspire to marry 6-9 year olds just because their prophet did.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Cherub012)
    But he was alive in a Medieval Period where such an act was not considered to be wrong.

    Like I said, Muslims don't aspire to marry 6-9 year olds just because their prophet did.
    The argument saying "it was different times" is not valid since the Quran is supposed to be a timeless guide for all mankind, hence why those who marry children justify it by quoting the Quran and Hadiths.
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Josb)
    The argument saying "it was different times" is not valid since the Quran is supposed to be a timeless guide for all mankind, hence why those who marry children justify it by quoting the Quran and Hadiths.
    What do you mean by a "timeless guide"?

    I understand that if the Qur'an commanded every Muslim to marry a six year old, then every Muslim of every century should do so.

    It doesn't. I can argue this incident is merely a small detail that does not need to be followed rather than an order.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Josb)
    The argument saying "it was different times" is not valid since the Quran is supposed to be a timeless guide for all mankind, hence why those who marry children justify it by quoting the Quran and Hadiths.
    The argument about different times is very much valid since we are talking here about a social/cultural norm. The Quran is indeed a timeless piece with regards to its rulings. However, in this case we are talking about something that was not commanded nor forbidden.
    I suppose you expect all Muslims to be clothed in the Arab dress and riding camels since that is documented in the timeless Quran?

    Citation for those marrying kids and their quoting of Quran and Hadith?
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Cherub012)
    What do you mean by a "timeless guide"?

    I understand that if the Qur'an commanded every Muslim to marry a six year old, then every Muslim of every century should do so.

    It doesn't. I can argue this incident is merely a small detail that does not need to be followed rather than an order.
    It's not an order, but since Muslims are encouraged to follow the guidance of the prophet, it can lead to several problems, considering that the Quran was written in the 7th century and several parts may enter in conflict with our modern standards, such as child marriage and terrorism, which both can be condoned by the Quran and hadiths.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Josb)
    It's not an order, but since Muslims are encouraged to follow the guidance of the prophet, it can lead to several problems, considering that the Quran was written in the 7th century and several parts may enter in conflict with our modern standards, such as child marriage and terrorism, which both can be condoned by the Quran and hadiths.
    So the argument that the Quran is a timeless piece is valid as it does not conflict here in any way with the social and cultural norms?

    Please elaborate on the guidance of the prophet we are meant to follow. I am intrigued.
    I have a story for you if you are interested.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by carpetguy)
    So the argument that the Quran is a timeless piece is valid as it does not conflict here in any way with the social and cultural norms?
    I don't understand what you mean.

    Please elaborate on the guidance of the prophet we are meant to follow. I am intrigued.
    I have a story for you if you are interested.
    What story?

    (Original post by carpetguy)
    The argument about different times is very much valid since we are talking here about a social/cultural norm. The Quran is indeed a timeless piece with regards to its rulings. However, in this case we are talking about something that was not commanded nor forbidden.
    I suppose you expect all Muslims to be clothed in the Arab dress and riding camels since that is documented in the timeless Quran?

    Citation for those marrying kids and their quoting of Quran and Hadith?
    I already said that although it is not commended nor forbidden, there is an encouragement to emulate the behaviour of Muhammad. Some Muslims just follow what is explicitly ordered, others want to go further.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Josb)

    What story?


    I already said that although it is not commended nor forbidden, there is an encouragement to emulate the behaviour of Muhammad. Some Muslims just follow what is explicitly ordered, others want to go further.
    Prophet Muhammad would never eat a certain type of lizard. He disliked it. Does that mean it is forbidden for us to eat it? No, he in fact explicitly did NOT forbid it - condoning his companions' eating of it.

    I find it confusing how you are confirming that following the prophet is not an obligation in these matters of everyday life - thereby showing that the Quran has not been contradicted in its status as a "timeless piece" by people who would quote this incorrect belief and use it to back a clearly unacceptable (yes by my standards too, I live in 2017) act.

    In fact, explain to me the whole premise of refuting the argument of:
    ' Yes it is wrong now but it wasn't wrong then '
    By saying:
    ' You can't say that because here is an example (which i have failed to show) of someone currently doing something that was wrong then and saying the Quran told me to do it. Therefore I impeach the Quran/argument (not quite sure which one you intended) '

    I hope I understood you correctly.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by carpetguy)
    Prophet Muhammad would never eat a certain type of lizard. He disliked it. Does that mean it is forbidden for us to eat it? No, he in fact explicitly did NOT forbid it - condoning his companions' eating of it.
    He explicitly said that it was ok, so there is no problem about this. Not everything is as clear in the Quran.

    (Original post by carpetguy)
    I find it confusing how you are confirming that following the prophet is not an obligation in these matters of everyday life - thereby showing that the Quran has not been contradicted in its status as a "timeless piece" by people who would quote this incorrect belief and use it to back a clearly unacceptable (yes by my standards too, I live in 2017) act.

    In fact, explain to me the whole premise of refuting the argument of:
    ' Yes it is wrong now but it wasn't wrong then '
    By saying:
    ' You can't say that because here is an example (which i have failed to show) of someone currently doing something that was wrong then and saying the Quran told me to do it. Therefore I impeach the Quran/argument (not quite sure which one you intended) '

    I hope I understood you correctly.
    I said many times that an encouragement is not an obligation. Some Muslims may not want to follow things that are not stated as compulsory, but many others do. They justify this by saying that the Quran is a timeless guide and Mohammed a role model, and this is quite difficult to refute. I often found that Salafis are more ideologically consistent than most westernised Muslims.

    If you say that child marriage is unacceptable, then you must also think that Muhammed shouldn't have done that, therefore he is not a perfect role model.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: February 3, 2017
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Did TEF Bronze Award affect your UCAS choices?
    Useful resources
    Bizarre things students have spent their loans onThings you should budget for at uni

    Sponsored features:

    Making money from your own website

    Need some cash?

    How to make money running your own website.

    Bianca Miller, runner-up on The Apprentice

    Handle your digital footprint

    What would an employer find out about you on Google? Find out how to take control.

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.