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Why British people dislike private education? Watch

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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    Yes, if you removed private schools and the quality of all other schools remained unchanged.

    The basis though is you remove private schools and state schools improve, meaning the quality of doctors, engineers and scientists would actually go up, as those who are naturally gifted but didn't get the chance for a good education would be getting a better one, and the rich plebs who get to where they are because of the tie they wear wouldn't be put in such positions of trust.
    It might result in many state schools improving by a little bit as resources and teachers from private schools would be absorbed into the state system. But would any of them improve to the same level that top private schools are currently at, with such a high concentration of the best resources and teachers? I don't see why they would.

    So the result would still be that the very best educated people coming out of your pure state system (i.e. those taking the top jobs) would be significantly less well educated than the best that private schools currently have to offer, and who are taking the top jobs at the moment.

    The problem with the system you've proposed is that its main priority is simply to reward the "naturally gifted". But this is not the purpose of education and qualifications. The purpose is to equip students to provide the best of a wide range of professional services to society. For that, there has to be a lot more to distinguish one person from another than just natural ability.
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    (Original post by hypnotismm)
    Maybe people can't afford to send their children to private school because they're barely scraping the money to survive?

    I think people dislike private education because these children will automatically get a better education and therefore better opportunities than other children, just because their parents have more money. The government are also constantly cutting funding for schools, which means that working class children are put at more of a disadvantage.

    It's not about the children or the parents as much as it is about the class system and the education system in the UK.
    And there is part of the problem: the blief that all private schools are significantly better than all state schools. You'll also find that the real spending cut in education over the last 7 years is small, and we still have one of the highest education budgets as a proportion of GDP in the world. The problems in education are primarily issues with the students and the parents: students who do not want to work, and parents who don't care that their children don't want to work.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    It might result in many state schools improving by a little bit as resources and teachers from private schools would be absorbed into the state system. But would any of them improve to the same level that top private schools are currently at, with such a high concentration of the best resources and teachers? I don't see why they would.

    So the result would still be that the very best educated people coming out of your pure state system (i.e. those taking the top jobs) would be significantly less well educated than the best that private schools currently have to offer, and who are taking the top jobs at the moment.

    The problem with the system you've proposed is that its main priority is simply to reward the "naturally gifted". But this is not the purpose of education and qualifications. The purpose is to equip students to provide the best of a wide range of professional services to society. For that, there has to be a lot more to distinguish one person from another than just natural ability.
    And you think wealth of parents is a good distinguishing factor? I'm don't recall proposing a system that would reward the naturally gifted, merely one that would give them the same opportunity.

    I think saying that the state education would be "significantly less" is a massive overstatement. Sure, there may be a small gap, but one that will more than be compensated for by the fact that plenty of naturally intelligent people will be able to benefit from it, rather than just inbred plebs.

    Apart from anything, lets be fair, the education you get that actually matters to the jobs you mentioned is all achieved at universities, which would be unaffected by this change. Frankly I don't give a flying **** is an architect did latin in secondary school.
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    Private schooling is an unfair privilege, but obviously almost any parent with the money is going to give their child that education. But it's abhorrent that many children are bound to do better in life from day one than many of their peers simply because they happened to enter the world from between the correct set of legs.

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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    And you think wealth of parents is a good distinguishing factor? I'm don't recall proposing a system that would reward the naturally gifted, merely one that would give them the same opportunity.
    No, wealth of parents is not a good distinguishing factor - but then, people who come out of private schools are on the whole, better educated than those from state schools, not merely wealthier.

    The point is that if you educate everyone to the same standard, the only thing that would help anyone excel is their natural talent. Whereas currently, our top professionals are likely have a combination of both natural talent and excellent schooling, which makes them able to do a better job than they otherwise would.

    I think saying that the state education would be "significantly less" is a massive overstatement. Sure, there may be a small gap, but one that will more than be compensated for by the fact that plenty of naturally intelligent people will be able to benefit from it, rather than just inbred plebs.
    I don't really think that's such a great benefit to be honest. Looking at the bigger picture, it doesn't really make a difference whether the top professionals in our country were the most naturally/genetically gifted or not. All that matters is that they are as skilled in their professions as they possibly can be, and serve society as best they can.

    If the gap between the education from private schools and state schools is indeed as small as you say, there'd be no reason why a naturally gifted person from a state school couldn't achieve their potential, should they work hard enough.

    Apart from anything, lets be fair, the education you get that actually matters to the jobs you mentioned is all achieved at universities, which would be unaffected by this change. Frankly I don't give a flying **** is an architect did latin in secondary school.
    Secondary education does affect the extent to which you are suitable/would benefit from a university degree though. If it didn't, there'd be no reason why Oxbridge and the like are disproportionately full of private school students.
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    Yes, if you removed private schools and the quality of all other schools remained unchanged.

    The basis though is you remove private schools and state schools improve, meaning the quality of doctors, engineers and scientists would actually go up, as those who are naturally gifted but didn't get the chance for a good education would be getting a better one, and the rich plebs who get to where they are because of the tie they wear wouldn't be put in such positions of trust.
    I disagree, the private school teachers would be diluted across the country meaning the standard at state schools wouldn't rise enough to offset the loss of private school. You're also not taking into account that private schools get better results because of more than just teachers.

    Banning private schools is the most ridiculous and pointless commie suggestion. Wealthy parents would simply pay for private tutors if their children were forced to go to school with 'normal' kids


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    We live in a capitalist society so private education is a fact of the society we live in. People need to understand that just because you go to private school it doesn't make you instantly 'bright'. The only thing that separates state and private schools is the fact in a private school 90% of the people there are highly motivated while in a state school 50% couldnt give a crap.

    And guess why kids who go to private school are more highly motivated! because all their peers and parents are also highly motivated which drove their success. And if your more highly motivated your more likely to achieve higher grades, do more revision etc.

    I think this highlights a failure of the state education system. What they need to do is re introduce grammers for those who are motivated and academically captable, good technical colleges for those who want to pursue technical careers and comprehensives for the rest. It seems bad to separate these kids but at the end of the day it is also equally unfair to give everyone the disadvantage. I have experienced what it is like to be in a class where I am the only one who gives a damn and lets face it grades are hit hard. Private standards of education are not better than state schools. Its probably down to the fact that there school days run for an extra 4 hours plus Saturday aswell 94 hours of revision for Christmas being the norm.
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    (Original post by TRAnders)
    We live in a capitalist society so private education is a fact of the society we live in. People need to understand that just because you go to private school it doesn't make you instantly 'bright'. The only thing that separates state and private schools is the fact in a private school 90% of the people there are highly motivated while in a state school 50% couldnt give a crap.

    And guess why kids who go to private school are more highly motivated! because all their peers and parents are also highly motivated which drove their success. And if your more highly motivated your more likely to achieve higher grades, do more revision etc.

    I think this highlights a failure of the state education system. What they need to do is re introduce grammers for those who are motivated and academically captable, good technical colleges for those who want to pursue technical careers and comprehensives for the rest. It seems bad to separate these kids but at the end of the day it is also equally unfair to give everyone the disadvantage. I have experienced what it is like to be in a class where I am the only one who gives a damn and lets face it grades are hit hard. Private standards of education are not better than state schools. Its probably down to the fact that there school days run for an extra 4 hours plus Saturday aswell 94 hours of revision for Christmas being the norm.
    Incorrect. Private schools have more funding and therefore can pay teachers better, meaning they can attract more able teachers. This increased funding also allows the school to invest more in their students, making a worthwhile service that parents are willing to pay for. Furthermore, private schools have much smaller class sizes, and therefore individuals receive much more in depth teaching, regular marking, and general academic support. It is a simply ignorant statement to suggest that a private school does not have higher standards than a state school, else why would parents bother paying for the privilege.

    *Grammar schools have been shown to be a failure in so-called social mobility, as it is not the most able students who do well on the 11+, but those with the most stable and supportive environments, and/or parents who can afford to get them tutored on the test. There are multiple studies to demonstrate this, and therefore your point that success is based entirely on motivation is frankly moot. Also, I'm sure there are many hard-working state school students who will be rightly disgusted when reading your comments about 'motivation', and I think you should reflect on the reality of the world before making such silly comments in future.


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    (Original post by Obiejess)
    Incorrect. Private schools have more funding and therefore can pay teachers better, meaning they can attract more able teachers. This increased funding also allows the school to invest more in their students, making a worthwhile service that parents are willing to pay for. Furthermore, private schools have much smaller class sizes, and therefore individuals receive much more in depth teaching, regular marking, and general academic support. It is a simply ignorant statement to suggest that a private school does not have higher standards than a state school, else why would parents bother paying for the privilege.
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    They also only accept children that pass their entry exams. So they only accept academically inclined children and then pretend it is all down to their superior teaching when academically inclined children get higher grades.

    :facepalm:

    State schools gets the harder kids to teach.
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    (Original post by Obiejess)
    Incorrect. Private schools have more funding and therefore can pay teachers better, meaning they can attract more able teachers. This increased funding also allows the school to invest more in their students, making a worthwhile service that parents are willing to pay for. Furthermore, private schools have much smaller class sizes, and therefore individuals receive much more in depth teaching, regular marking, and general academic support. It is a simply ignorant statement to suggest that a private school does not have higher standards than a state school, else why would parents bother paying for the privilege.

    *Grammar schools have been shown to be a failure in so-called social mobility, as it is not the most able students who do well on the 11+, but those with the most stable and supportive environments, and/or parents who can afford to get them tutored on the test. There are multiple studies to demonstrate this, and therefore your point that success is based entirely on motivation is frankly moot. Also, I'm sure there are many hard-working state school students who will be rightly disgusted when reading your comments about 'motivation', and I think you should reflect on the reality of the world before making such silly comments in future.


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    I think you will find that the vast majority of private school teachers are paid exactly the same, unless they take on additional responsibilities ie housemaster etc. How is it not a failure of the state education system of having huge class sizes?

    How is my statement about motivation disgusting? Its true if your highly motivated your more likely to succeed. You can not expect everything to be spoonfed. Have you ever attended private school? or are you just making assumptions?
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    They also only accept children that pass their entry exams. So they only accept academically inclined children and then pretend it is all down to their superior teaching when academically inclined children get higher grades.

    :facepalm:

    State schools gets the harder kids to teach.
    That is definitely true, I always felt as though my school were taking the credit for my results


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    I go to a private school and I think it is just like a regular school. There are state schools that perform at a standard just as high. But I can understand why people dislike private education.

    I think it creates a divide between rich and poor. The rich go to private school, the poor don't. Obviously there are some cases, a lot actually, where this doesn't happen. For example, in my school, people who are smart but can't afford the school get funding by the school. Also some rich families don't want to send their children to private schools.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    That is definitely true, I always felt as though my school were taking the credit for my results


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    In that respect it is a bit of a con. They just select for the right kids.

    They are also ran like businesses with profit in mind above the childrens' concern. You start to fall behind and get bad grades, you risk being kicked out. My friends sister was barred from her private school's sixth form due to her not getting good enough GCSES so went to the state school I went to. State schools care about teaching everyone, not just those who get A grades. Private schools treat their students as advertisement for their business and have the same level of ruthlessness.

    I would rather send any future children of mine to a good state school than a private school, even if I had the money. From my experience looking in on the outside private schools seem like a hotbed for mental health problems. It's hard enough growing up as it is.
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    (Original post by TRAnders)
    I think you will find that the vast majority of private school teachers are paid exactly the same, unless they take on additional responsibilities ie housemaster etc. How is it not a failure of the state education system of having huge class sizes?

    How is my statement about motivation disgusting? Its true if your highly motivated your more likely to succeed. You can not expect everything to be spoonfed. Have you ever attended private school? or are you just making assumptions?
    https://www.surveymonkey.net/results/SM-LTDL555L/ - fact check, ATL survey 2014 - Private school teachers are paid more.

    Class sizes are to do with funding. Because individuals pay for private schools at a higher price than the state provides funding for state schools, they obviously have more money, and more money means better services and a higher teacher to student ratio. This is just a fact, and there is no possible way to argue that private schools do not offer a better standard of education.

    Also if you cannot see why your comments about richer kids being naturally more 'motivated' is offensive then there is no hope for you. I know a girl who works 50 hours a week on top of sixth form just so her mum can afford to pay rent. She'll get worse grades than someone at a private school, but I guess that's because she's less motivated lol. I know people who work 5x as hard as my cousin who went to private school did, and he still came out with better grades just because of the system. Honestly your ignorance is appalling.



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    (Original post by Obiejess)
    https://www.surveymonkey.net/results/SM-LTDL555L/ - fact check, ATL survey 2014 - Private school teachers are paid more.

    Class sizes are to do with funding. Because individuals pay for private schools at a higher price than the state provides funding for state schools, they obviously have more money, and more money means better services and a higher teacher to student ratio. This is just a fact, and there is no possible way to argue that private schools do not offer a better standard of education.

    Also if you cannot see why your comments about richer kids being naturally more 'motivated' is offensive then there is no hope for you. I know a girl who works 50 hours a week on top of sixth form just so her mum can afford to pay rent. She'll get worse grades than someone at a private school, but I guess that's because she's less motivated lol. I know people who work 5x as hard as my cousin who went to private school did, and he still came out with better grades just because of the system. Honestly your ignorance is appalling.



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    Stop twisting my words xD I never said richer kids are more 'motivated'. What I did say is that you will find more highly motivated kids in private schools due to the pressure that their peers and parents put on them compared to state schools. I have been to both and I can tell you now that nearly every one at my private schools is ridiculously motivated and as a result this puts pressure on everyone else to succeed. When I was at state school I was happy with B's and C's because I was performing and revising more than any one else there and honestly the vast majority could not give less of a crap.

    All I was saying is that much of this academic success if down to this underlying motivation. For a kid whose parents and friends do not give a damn about their education its tough to be motivated. And its down to the school to inspire them and I can you now through the work I have down in the state sector that is exactly what the state system is trying to implement now at an early age. They even have lists of kids whose parents are known not to care about their education, thus the school has to take on the burden.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    In that respect it is a bit of a con. They just select for the right kids.

    They are also ran like businesses with profit in mind above the childrens' concern. You start to fall behind and get bad grades, you risk being kicked out. My friends sister was barred from her private school's sixth form due to her not getting good enough GCSES so went to the state school I went to. State schools care about teaching everyone, not just those who get A grades. Private schools treat their students as advertisement for their business and have the same level of ruthlessness.

    I would rather send any future children of mine to a good state school than a private school, even if I had the money. From my experience looking in on the outside private schools seem like a hotbed for mental health problems. It's hard enough growing up as it is.
    Contrastingly, I'll also say that being a bright child at a state school is an incredibly frustrating experience. Outside the intense bullying that occurs in lower years, add the fact that even in sixth form the teachers teach at an incredibly slow and basic pace so that those aiming for Ds and Es don't fall behind, whilst those aiming for As and A*s are rarely given the support they need. There seems to be this mentality within state schools that it's okay if everyone passes, even at the detriment of more able students.

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    (Original post by TRAnders)
    Stop twisting my words xD I never said richer kids are more 'motivated'. What I did say is that you will find more highly motivated kids in private schools due to the pressure that their peers and parents put on them compared to state schools. I have been to both and I can tell you now that nearly every one at my private schools is ridiculously motivated and as a result this puts pressure on everyone else to succeed. When I was at state school I was happy with B's and C's because I was performing and revising more than any one else there and honestly the vast majority could not give less of a crap.
    So do you admit you were wrong? As you seem to have abandoned your previous points.

    Regarding motivation, I am not twisting your words. Who gets to go to private schools? Rich kids. Who are you saying has more motivation? Private school kids because of their richer family and peers. I have an offer from Cambridge and am at a state school, in fact am the only one who has has an offer from Oxbridge at my school - guessing your mates are a lot more motivated than me though :yy:. Or wait, maybe you pay to succeed, otherwise why do your parents bother paying? If it's just about motivation you should tell them - what a rip off!

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    (Original post by Obiejess)
    So do you admit you were wrong? As you seem to have abandoned your previous points.

    Regarding motivation, I am not twisting your words. Who gets to go to private schools? Rich kids. Who are you saying has more motivation? Private school kids because of their richer family and peers. I have an offer from Cambridge and am at a state school, in fact am the only one who has has an offer from Oxbridge at my school - guessing your mates are a lot more motivated than me though :yy:. Or wait, maybe you pay to succeed, otherwise why do your parents bother paying? If it's just about motivation you should tell them - what a rip off!

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    Which points have I 'abandoned?'. Please stop being so sour, It is clear that at state schools SOME kids COULD NOT CARE LESS about their education. While at a private school there will inevitably be less Im talking from my own experiences. Actually read my other posts all im saying is that it is difficult to be motivated when others are not. Please stop twisting my words... Its getting boring
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    (Original post by TRAnders)
    Which points have I 'abandoned?'. Please stop being so sour, It is clear that at state schools some kids COULD NOT CARE LESS about their education. Actually read my other posts all im saying is that it is difficult to be motivated when others are not. Please stop twisting my words...
    Your point about grammar schools, and private schools not offering a better education. For 1.) I'm not being sour. I had the opportunity to go to private school, just like my cousin, but turned it down. There are people in all walks of life who could not care less about their education, including at private schools, however you privileged few have support no-one else gets. Or are you too stuck in your own little bubble you can't see that?

    There is a reason why universities like Cambridge ask for less from state school students, and ask about class sizes in their SAQ. It's because they know that private school students pay to do better and the statistics show this. You happen to be lucky enough to pay money for better resources and support than most other kids have, so obviously you're at an advantage. To deny this and say it's solely based on motivation is ludicrous, otherwise why would you be paying?

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    (Original post by Obiejess)
    Your point about grammar schools, and private schools not offering a better education. For 1.) I'm not being sour. I had the opportunity to go to private school, just like my cousin, but turned it down. There are people in all walks of life who could not care less about their education, including at private schools, however you privileged few have support no-one else gets. Or are you too stuck in your own little bubble you can't see that?

    There is a reason why universities like Cambridge ask for less from state school students, and ask about class sizes in their SAQ. It's because they know that private school students pay to do better and the statistics show this. You happen to be lucky enough to pay money for better resources and support than most other kids have, so obviously you're at an advantage. To deny this and say it's solely based on motivation is ludicrous, otherwise why would you be paying?

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    Stop with the 'us and them' mentality. I'm getting bored of this. I'm obviously not getting through to you. You might actually learn that no one gives a crap whether or not you went private or not at uni. Anyways I better go off to play polo with my 'rich' friends an bathe in my fortunes.

    Stop with the generalisation. I come from a modest house and have a modest family. I'm exactly like you apart from the fact that I go to a different type of school.
 
 
 
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