Judge blocks Donald Trump’s immigration ban nationwide

Watch
ChaoticButterfly
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#1
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7562406.html

It looks like Trump is running into the checks and balances built into the american
system.

I seems like their are two reactions to this? Either Trump and his inner circle are constantly thwarted by the constitution etc or they find a way round the constitution with all the worrying aspects of that. I think the former will happen (hopefully).
0
reply
Fullofsurprises
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#2
Report 3 years ago
#2
This morning Trump declares it to be a ruling by a "so-called judge" and that it will be overturned.

Evidently Trump intends to blame the failure of his muddled and badly thought-through (and executed) orders onto the judges. He may be President, but he "isn't part of the establishment" - the line being offered to his supporters. Probably this is all part of the Bannon game plan - the idea is to whip the mob up into continued anti-government hysteria and total disregard for the constitution he just swore to uphold.

It could not be plainer that their aim is a sort of total national collapse into libertarian anarchy. They are trying to destroy the US government.

We are getting close to the end of civilisation as we know it, if this becomes a real thing, which they intend it to be.
0
reply
Ladbants
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#3
Report 3 years ago
#3
The judge was influenced by his anti-Trump agenda. You can tell from what he said that he merely hates Trump's idea because of Trump, not because it was 'unconstitutional'. If it was unconstitutional, why didn't anyone rule against Obama's one month ban on Iraqis?

I'm sick and tired of judges interfering with the will of the people- it's happened with the triggering of Article 50 here and with Trump in the US. Trump was elected to do what he campaigned for. He campaigned for a ban. Now the opposition can sit back, complain and wait till the next election!
0
reply
StrawbAri
Badges: 17
#4
Report 3 years ago
#4
I hope this means Trump will take his time and carefully consider this, fix all the issues to do with green card holders etc
OR
Maybe even realise that home grown terrorism are a bigger problem and crack down on the Saudi funded propaganda being shoved into the country and implement strong vetting policies to control and filter people coming in from problematic countries rather than a blanket ban so it's a win win. The masses that voted for you feel safe and secure + the masses that dislike you won't really have any reason to protest/cause trouble because you've handled things in a civil and diplomatic manner.

It seems so much easier in my head than this convoluted mess that's going on right now :lol:
0
reply
Aj12
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#5
Report 3 years ago
#5
(Original post by Ladbants)
The judge was influenced by his anti-Trump agenda. You can tell from what he said that he merely hates Trump's idea because of Trump, not because it was 'unconstitutional'. If it was unconstitutional, why didn't anyone rule against Obama's one month ban on Iraqis?

I'm sick and tired of judges interfering with the will of the people- it's happened with the triggering of Article 50 here and with Trump in the US. Trump was elected to do what he campaigned for. He campaigned for a ban. Now the opposition can sit back, complain and wait till the next election!
Well for starters Obama's policy was nothing like Trump's. http://www.factcheck.org/2017/01/tru...cy-comparison/

Secondly, I suggest you gain a modicum of understanding of what a democracy actually is. A functioning democracy is not simply I got voted in, I do what I want. That's how you end up with a state like Egypt, Russia, Venezuela, the Philippines, South Africa, and many, many others. We have Rule of Law in the West, most people with an I.Q above .5 will recognise that as a good thing.
4
reply
Ladbants
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#6
Report 3 years ago
#6
(Original post by Aj12)
Well for starters Obama's policy was nothing like Trump's. http://www.factcheck.org/2017/01/tru...cy-comparison/

Secondly, I suggest you gain a modicum of understanding of what a democracy actually is. A functioning democracy is not simply I got voted in, I do what I want. That's how you end up with a state like Egypt, Russia, Venezuela, the Philippines, South Africa, and many, many others. We have Rule of Law in the West, most people with an I.Q above .5 will recognise that as a good thing.
So the will of the people should be subverted in favour of some medieval law that got passed ages ago? Great, that's such a good thing.
0
reply
Aj12
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#7
Report 3 years ago
#7
(Original post by Ladbants)
So the will of the people should be subverted in favour of some medieval law that got passed ages ago? Great, that's such a good thing.
"The will of the people" I don't think Trump's a fascist but you certainly sound like something that crawled out of the 1930's.

Leaders, institutions, companies, and individuals should act with regard to democratic and legal norms, like respecting the legislation draw up and passed by other elected officials. This should not be a controversial sentiment.

As for "medieval laws", the laws Trump is being stopped by were passed in the 1950's, 1960's and have been tested repeatedly in court. They are not some arcane tradition that should be dropped because a loud mouth populist didn't want to spend ten minutes talking to a lawyer before throwing out executive orders.
1
reply
jape
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#8
Report 3 years ago
#8
It's a temporary suspension of a temporary suspension. Nothing exciting going on here.
0
reply
InnerTemple
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#9
Report 3 years ago
#9
This is obviously brilliant news. And Trump's reaction just makes it even better.
1
reply
IamJacksContempt
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#10
Report 3 years ago
#10
(Original post by Ladbants)
The judge was influenced by his anti-Trump agenda. You can tell from what he said that he merely hates Trump's idea because of Trump, not because it was 'unconstitutional'. If it was unconstitutional, why didn't anyone rule against Obama's one month ban on Iraqis?

I'm sick and tired of judges interfering with the will of the people- it's happened with the triggering of Article 50 here and with Trump in the US. Trump was elected to do what he campaigned for. He campaigned for a ban. Now the opposition can sit back, complain and wait till the next election!
Utter stupidity.


I'd also like it if people stopped trying to compare this to Obama temporarily banning REFUGEE applications from Iraq. Completely different to banning greencard holders and US citizens.
1
reply
MrDystopia
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#11
Report 3 years ago
#11
(Original post by Ladbants)
I'm sick and tired of judges interfering with the will of the people- it's happened with the triggering of Article 50 here and with Trump in the US
In regards to here, as ever, let the British courts decide on British issues or whatever it was Brexiters bleated on about.
In regards to the US, that's checks and balances for you. Enjoy.
0
reply
nulli tertius
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#12
Report 3 years ago
#12
(Original post by Ladbants)
Trump was elected to do what he campaigned for. He campaigned for a ban.
Trump campaigned for a ban on Muslims coming to America. Trump says this isn't a ban on Muslims.
0
reply
Allie4
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#13
Report 3 years ago
#13
Uh-oh, here comes the whiney tantrum from Trump...
1
reply
the bear
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#14
Report 3 years ago
#14
(Original post by Ladbants)
I'm sick and tired of judges interfering with the will of the people-
it is only the will of a certain segment of the people. in the case of the Brexiters it is a segment of ill-informed and bitter people.
0
reply
nulli tertius
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#15
Report 3 years ago
#15
(Original post by jape)
It's a temporary suspension of a temporary suspension. Nothing exciting going on here.
But Trump is now going to seek a stay of that temporary suspension of a temporary suspension

I think it is fair to point out that none of these judges are deciding whether than ban is unconstitutional of not. They are only deciding whether to suspend the Order whilst that is determined.

This is the judge who lifted the suspension in Massachusetts

https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...RO-Expires.pdf

This is the judge who granted a suspension about an hour later in Washington

https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...rump-Order.pdf

If you look at the Washington Order the judge nowhere says why he thinks the Plaintiff States are likely to succeed on their claims.

If you look at the Massachusetts Order and Count 1 there is no rational basis why the standard of review of whether a facially neutral provision is motivated by unlawful animus in breach of the Fifth Amendment should be different if the decision is made by the Federal Government to if it is made by a State government. Strict scrutiny clearly applies here and Trump's decision is likely to fail that standard.

So the Massachusetts decision looks to be substantively wrong on one narrow ground whilst the Washington decision should be set aside and redetermined because no finding has been made on a key issue, in my humble opinion.
0
reply
MagicNMedicine
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#16
Report 3 years ago
#16
If Trump doesn't want to fit in and respect the law of his country he's free to **** off to another country.
1
reply
yudothis
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#17
Report 3 years ago
#17
(Original post by Ladbants)
The judge was influenced by his anti-Trump agenda. You can tell from what he said that he merely hates Trump's idea because of Trump, not because it was 'unconstitutional'. If it was unconstitutional, why didn't anyone rule against Obama's one month ban on Iraqis?

I'm sick and tired of judges interfering with the will of the people- it's happened with the triggering of Article 50 here and with Trump in the US. Trump was elected to do what he campaigned for. He campaigned for a ban. Now the opposition can sit back, complain and wait till the next election!
The judge is a Republican judge.

And why are you tired of judges? You don't want them to uphold the law? You think the "will of the people" which btw was not a majority, is above the law?
0
reply
nulli tertius
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#18
Report 3 years ago
#18
Bid for a stay on the suspension refused

This is the application

http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...5%20motion.pdf

and this the order

http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...5/17-35105.pdf

I do not think the federal government is going to get anywhere with the locus standi argument.

There is a real problem that the judge in Washington hasn't said why he thinks the challenging states will win; but noticeably the federal government hasn't addressed the key argument that the stated reasons for the Executive Order are a sham (see
http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...im-ban-legally)
0
reply
Fullofsurprises
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#19
Report 3 years ago
#19
(Original post by MagicNMedicine)
If Trump doesn't want to fit in and respect the law of his country he's free to **** off to another country.
I'm sure he would be more than welcome in Mexico.
0
reply
nulli tertius
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#20
Report 3 years ago
#20
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
I'm sure he would be more than welcome in Mexico.
Unfortunately, as he is entitled to be registered as a British citizen, he is more likely to come here.

That might pose a little problem for his state visit. Now, we normally give foreign heads of state an honorary knighthood, either the GCB or the GCMG. But if he later takes up British citizenship he can ask for that knighthood to be made substantive. I am not sure how the Queen would feel about Sir Donald. Don't be surprised if he is made an honorary member of the Order of Merit or a Companion of Honour. and they confer no precedence and carry no title.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

How are you feeling ahead of results day?

Very Confident (39)
8.23%
Confident (65)
13.71%
Indifferent (66)
13.92%
Unsure (117)
24.68%
Worried (187)
39.45%

Watched Threads

View All