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Could the UK - US trade deal include free movement? Watch

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    It seems Trump and May are very eager to set up a trade deal between the UK and US. Do you think this deal could include free movement, or easier immigration between the two countries?
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    (Original post by Depz)
    It seems Trump and May are very eager to set up a trade deal between the UK and US. Do you think this deal could include free movement, or easier immigration between the two countries?
    An interesting idea. I personally don't think they will. As a dual-citizen Anglospherian, I have much sympathy for the idea of Anglosphere free movement and free trade, in principle.

    In practice, I don't think it will happen in the near future as it requires complex agreements for which there is not, at present, any exceptional demand. If you are British and an American company that employs you wants to move you to New York, then you can get a visa, If you are British and you want to go visit America, you can travel there visa-free.

    If you're American and you want to travel to Australia, or the UK, you can do that too without that much trouble. There really isn't that much standing the in the way of people who want to move between these countries to live, work and study.

    Of course there is already Anglosphere free movement between the New Zealand and Australia, and between the US and Canada. Perhaps if free movement could be agreed between the UK and Canada, and between New Zealand and the US, that could start to build this up in a cautious, sensible way and we could see how things go?
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    One reason why it won't happen; Australia and New Zealand will worry that free movement to Australia will act as a magnet to low-wage, low-skill immigrants who have managed to get Idefinite Leave to Remain in the UK.

    Australia has a points-based immigration system that ensures it tends to have high-quality immigrants (educated, middle-class, already have savings in the bank, have skills that are in demand), whereas the UK has pretty much let any old illiterate, superstitious, religiously-extreme peasant with no skills and no money (and bringing their entire extended family) into Britain.

    Australia doesn't want that. It would mean that as soon as an immigrant gets their ILR they just jump on a plane to Australia and start living the high life there, while much more qualified immigrants from other countries have to wait in the queue.

    Even as it is currently, Australia has pretty rigorous laws to exclude English backpackers after a year unless they take up backbreaking work in a rural area (like picking berries and so forth) for three months in order to earn another year's visa. And people do that in their tens of thousands. It's an extremely attractive destination country; when you take into account high wages, excellent weather, universal healthcare, large houses, good schools, it's easy to see why. And so Australia would basically have to give up immigration control in order to have Anglosphere free movement (and the flood over racist Brits who move to Australia because they think it's a white paradise where they can get away from immigrants here would turn into a tsunami).
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    That assumes Britain and America are equals when obviously, America is a much stronger country economically and don't need any British people when they already have the pick of highly skilled people from other parts of the world as well as their own.
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    (Original post by Depz)
    It seems Trump and May are very eager to set up a trade deal between the UK and US. Do you think this deal could include free movement, or easier immigration between the two countries?
    Make immigration easier? Yes

    Free movement? No

    They would come here for free health care and university education loans


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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    One reason why it won't happen; Australia and New Zealand will worry that free movement to Australia will act as a magnet to low-wage, low-skill immigrants who have managed to get Idefinite Leave to Remain in the UK.

    Australia has a points-based immigration system that ensures it tends to have high-quality immigrants (educated, middle-class, already have savings in the bank, have skills that are in demand), whereas the UK has pretty much let any old illiterate, superstitious, religiously-extreme peasant with no skills and no money (and bringing their entire extended family) into Britain.

    Australia doesn't want that. It would mean that as soon as an immigrant gets their ILR they just jump on a plane to Australia and start living the high life there, while much more qualified immigrants from other countries have to wait in the queue.

    Even as it is currently, Australia has pretty rigorous laws to exclude English backpackers after a year unless they take up backbreaking work in a rural area (like picking berries and so forth) for three months in order to earn another year's visa. And people do that in their tens of thousands. It's an extremely attractive destination country; when you take into account high wages, excellent weather, universal healthcare, large houses, good schools, it's easy to see why. And so Australia would basically have to give up immigration control in order to have Anglosphere free movement (and the flood over racist Brits who move to Australia because they think it's a white paradise where they can get away from immigrants here would turn into a tsunami).
    If that's the case, then why are so many would be migrants to the UK frustrated by this? https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkin...ies-and-hearts
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    One reason why it won't happen; Australia and New Zealand will worry that free movement to Australia will act as a magnet to low-wage, low-skill immigrants who have managed to get Idefinite Leave to Remain in the UK.
    Free movement would only apply to UK nationals not foreign national with the right to remain in the UK.

    Australia has a points-based immigration system that ensures it tends to have high-quality immigrants (educated, middle-class, already have savings in the bank, have skills that are in demand), whereas the UK has pretty much let any old illiterate, superstitious, religiously-extreme peasant with no skills and no money (and bringing their entire extended family) into Britain.

    That is a poor description of who succeeds under the Australian system. Virtually anyone who is relatively young (under 50) and has virtually any form of skilled employment (with the exception of IT where the quotas are quickly filled presumably from South Asia) will find a way in to at least some part of Australia


    Moreover that is a ridiculous parody of the UK immigration system
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Make immigration easier? Yes

    Free movement? No

    They would come here for free health care and university education loans
    US immigration to Canada has never been more than 10K a year since the 1970s but Canada has a very strong bias towards young immigrants which will reduce the pull factor of free healthcare.
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    (Original post by paul514)

    They would come here for free health care and university education loans


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    Agreed. But in reality American business has its eyes on our NHS as a business opportunity.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Agreed. But in reality American business has its eyes on our NHS as a business opportunity.
    Hitherto anyone who has got involved, mostly on the IT side, has got their fingers burned very badly. In practical terms there is nothing to stop US healthcare providers bidding for such privatised contracts as the NHS already offers.
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    I'm very open to lowering barriers between the Five Eyes community - the UK, USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand - but I don't think total freedom of movement is particularly in anyone's interests. But I certainly think we should make it easier to move between them. Generally, the Five Eyes community share similar culture, a belief in democracy, economic freedom & general liberty. Having close ties with them is definitely something we should strive for.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Agreed. But in reality American business has its eyes on our NHS as a business opportunity.
    They can have their eyes on it all they like it's up to our government to allow them and let's face it the public won't allow them to


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    Both countries are trying to reduce immigration so it wouldn't be in either country's interest. The UK needs to separate the issue of free movement from trade in its EU negotiations. I think it would undermine our negotiating position with Europe to open the doors to America.
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    (Original post by Sternumator)
    Both countries are trying to reduce immigration so it wouldn't be in either country's interest. The UK needs to separate the issue of free movement from trade in its EU negotiations. I think it would undermine our negotiating position with Europe to open the doors to America.
    We may want to avoid linking immigration to trade but the EU, India, the USA , Australia and for all I know Upper Volta want to link them.

    One sees at work clients or opponents whose negotiating strategy is "give me what I want and then we will talk about what you want".
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    (Original post by Depz)
    It seems Trump and May are very eager to set up a trade deal between the UK and US. Do you think this deal could include free movement, or easier immigration between the two countries?
    Could it? Yes the same as it could include a free car.

    Will it? No because they have had enough upheaveal over immigration without more.

    It is likely to have some more immigration coverage with a possible relaxing of some requirements for businesses. So very limited if any.
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    Seeing as Trump's very isolationist I can't imagine him allowing British people to go and take jobs that he wants to be giving to Americans more easily.
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    Neither Trump nor Theresa May support free movement so no.

    There would probably be something around services, and the posting of workers. The US for instance will want greater access for its services firms to the UK market and will want to be able to bid for contracts: eg at the moment all public sector contracts worth over a certain amount have to be open to competition from across Europe. The Americans would probably want the right to bid for them and the right to provide them. This will mean they have to move their people over to the UK to deliver the work, and they will want this to be straighforward so they won't want to be caught up in visa red tape.

    But Trump is never in a million years going to offer a free movement work visa to any Brit who decides they want to go over and work for a while in the US, neither is May going to be keen on the idea of all the disaffected Mexicans being victimised by Trump wanting to migrate to the UK.
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    (Original post by Depz)
    It seems Trump and May are very eager to set up a trade deal between the UK and US. Do you think this deal could include free movement, or easier immigration between the two countries?
    No, we already have good visa and immigration processes. Only in the EU superstate does free movement come with trade.
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    I highly doubt it but I do think many countries (when negotiating with them) will push us to loosen our immigration controls, I think Australia has been vocal on this and no doubt others will want the same but I think it's much better having international and balanced immigration instead of from one large bloc that are entitled to move here rather than be taken in on merit as other countries are allowed to do
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    (Original post by james813)
    No, we already have good visa and immigration processes.
    We are very good at dealing with employer sponsored immigration. The rest, including when those employer sponsored immigrants seek indefinite leave to remain, is pretty ropey.
 
 
 
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