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The Paradoxical Nature of Modern Leftism - Let Reason Return Watch

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    Read it all before commenting. Thank you.

    Those on the (widely dubbed 'regressive' ) left of modern politics are often the first to leap to the defence of women's rights, gay rights, racial equality, and the like. Yet their defence of these values is both arbitrary and paradoxical, because they ironically extend their safeguarding to that which seeks to destroy these values.

    If a white male were to criticise any of the above listed doctrines, many on the modern left would brand him a bigot; a misogynist; a homophobe. So, naturally, they would also oppose any ideology that seeks to restrict equality and personal freedom? Surprisingly, this is completely incorrect.

    You see, when a religion becomes involved, that religion cannot be wrong. It must be respected at all times, according to this brand of modern leftism, even if it seeks to restrict women's rights, or gay rights. And anyone who criticises these religions - justly - receives the honorary branding of 'bigot', that marks you out as an enemy of 'tolerance'. If Islam is the religion in question (a paradoxical favourite of the left, despite it being the most extreme of modern religions on these issues), you may even be branded a racist; the modern left have a strange disconnect between what constitutes race and ideology, and assume that because the majority of Muslims are brown, that must be the reason why you - the white male - are opposed to them. They often do not even attempt to look at the underlying issue that generates this criticism in the first place.

    You see, religion is nothing more than a set of ideas with a special name, coupled with a vague supernatural element. If it was a doctrine like Marxism or fascism, then discussion of its negatives would be rife. In fact, this already occurs with ancient religions that revere deities such as Thor, Zeus, or Osiris. These religions have been confined to the history books. Yet, despite making equally as ludicrous and unsubstantiated claims, the modern Abrahamic religions command total respect. "It's just their culture," the left say, or, "respect their beliefs!" Why? They were clearly designed in and intended for a different century, and we have advanced far beyond Biblical or Quranic morality. In fact, parts of these 'holy' scriptures are not very moral at all. One only needs to look to the vengeful tyrant of the Old Testament, or the multitude of speeches from Allah condemning the unbelievers to an eternity of hellfire. These figures are not be respected at all - let alone worshiped! They are violent, and malevolent, and they are contributing to a host of regressive social values that still plague many parts of the planet today, stifling the global development of human rights and the growth of their respective countries into modern, tolerant societies.

    The left have made a start on condemning Christianity for its intolerant practises; it has even become a favourite hobby for many. The abortion clinic bombers, the anti-gay priests - these people are all justly criticised. But they need to extend their critical eye over all doctrines that seek to limit human rights, and not just those that are majority-white. They need to recognise that criticism of a religion does not amount to bigotry, or racism, or discrimination towards individuals. Criticism helps old religions to modernise, expose hate in all its forms, and contributes to the spreading of liberal social values to parts of the world that do not currently enjoy these luxuries. Sometimes, in order to do that, we must be intolerant of the intolerant.

    Think freely, be rational, and use empirical evidence wherever possible. If everyone can do this, the world will be a much better place.

    Merci d'avoir écouté
    Regards,
    A centrist who cares

    -----

    *Note that 'left' in this argument is specifically referring to the 'regressive', SJW-type left, not the sensible, moderate kind, before anyone accuses me of making 'sweeping judgements' about all who are left of centre. This modern strain is discrediting those on the left who are in fact quite judicious.

    **I'm preempting some replies here by saying that my message is not to restrict freedom of speech, thought etc, but to call it out on its BS, wherever it appears. People are perfectly entitled to have homophobic or misogynistic views, but I think a majority of people believe that these are clearly outdated, so explain to them why they are, rather than cowering behind the discourse of 'respecting' them no matter how outlandish they may be.

    ***Hope no one gets triggered by this 😬

    ****I may write a piece like this on the alt-right soon, if people want me to.
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    (Original post by Count Bezukhov)
    Read it all before commenting. Thank you.

    Those on the (widely dubbed 'regressive' ) left of modern politics are often the first to leap to the defence of women's rights, gay rights, racial equality, and the like. Yet their defence of these values is both arbitrary and paradoxical, because they ironically extend their safeguarding to that which seeks to destroy these values.

    If a white male were to criticise any of the above listed doctrines, many on the modern left would brand him a bigot; a misogynist; a homophobe. So, naturally, they would also oppose any ideology that seeks to restrict equality and personal freedom? Surprisingly, this is completely incorrect.

    You see, when a religion becomes involved, that religion cannot be wrong. It must be respected at all times, according to this brand of modern leftism, even if it seeks to restrict women's rights, or gay rights. And anyone who criticises these religions - justly - receives the honorary branding of 'bigot', that marks you out as an enemy of 'tolerance'. If Islam is the religion in question (a paradoxical favourite of the left, despite it being the most extreme of modern religions on these issues), you may even be branded a racist; the modern left have a strange disconnect between what constitutes race and ideology, and assume that because the majority of Muslims are brown, that must be the reason why you - the white male - are opposed to them. They often do not even attempt to look at the underlying issue that generates this criticism in the first place.

    You see, religion is nothing more than a set of ideas with a special name, coupled with a vague supernatural element. If it was a doctrine like Marxism or fascism, then discussion of its negatives would be rife. In fact, this already occurs with ancient religions that revere deities such as Thor, Zeus, or Osiris. These religions have been confined to the history books. Yet, despite making equally as ludicrous and unsubstantiated claims, the modern Abrahamic religions command total respect. "It's just their culture," the left say, or, "respect their beliefs!" Why? They were clearly designed in and intended for a different century, and we have advanced far beyond Biblical or Quranic morality. In fact, parts of these 'holy' scriptures are not very moral at all. One only needs to look to the vengeful tyrant of the Old Testament, or the multitude of speeches from Allah condemning the unbelievers to an eternity of hellfire. These figures are not be respected at all - let alone worshiped! They are violent, and malevolent, and they are contributing to a host of regressive social values that still plague many parts of the planet today, stifling the global development of human rights and the growth of their respective countries into modern, tolerant societies.

    The left have made a start on condemning Christianity for its intolerant practises; it has even become a favourite hobby for many. The abortion clinic bombers, the anti-gay priests - these people are all justly criticised. But they need to extend their critical eye over all doctrines that seek to limit human rights, and not just those that are majority-white. They need to recognise that criticism of a religion does not amount to bigotry, or racism, or discrimination towards individuals. Criticism helps old religions to modernise, expose hate in all its forms, and contributes to the spreading of liberal social values to parts of the world that do not currently enjoy these luxuries. Sometimes, in order to do that, we must be intolerant of the intolerant.

    Think freely, be rational, and use empirical evidence wherever possible. If everyone can do this, the world will be a much better place.

    Merci d'avoir écouté
    Regards,
    A centrist who cares

    -----

    *Note that 'left' in this argument is specifically referring to the 'regressive', SJW-type left, not the sensible, moderate kind, before anyone accuses me of making 'sweeping judgements' about all who are left of centre. This modern strain is discrediting those on the left who are in fact quite judicious.

    **I'm preempting some replies here by saying that my message is not to restrict freedom of speech, thought etc, but to call it out on its BS, wherever it appears. People are perfectly entitled to have homophobic or misogynistic views, but I think a majority of people believe that these are clearly outdated, so explain to them why they are, rather than cowering behind the discourse of 'respecting' them no matter how outlandish they may be.

    ***Hope no one gets triggered by this 😬
    WOAH be careful, on TSR every ideology is allowed to be criticised EXCEPT for Islam. Because Islam gets special treatment EVERYWHERE.
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    (Original post by AwokenMuslim)
    WOAH be careful, on TSR every ideology is allowed to be criticised EXCEPT for Islam. Because Islam gets special treatment EVERYWHERE.
    Did you see the bit in bold at the top? My focus was more a criticism on the 'regressive', SJW left because they do (largely) ignore Islam's misgivings. But my overall message is to be critical of everything, which is why I mentioned Christianity as well occasionally. However, as I stated, the SJW left are critical of Christianity often, so it's a lesser concern.

    On here, it's mainly the right who are critical of Islam, with the left defending it even from just criticisms.
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    (Original post by Count Bezukhov)
    Did you see the bit in bold at the top? My focus was more a criticism on the 'regressive', SJW left because they do (largely) ignore Islam's misgivings. But my overall message is to be critical of everything, which is why I mentioned Christianity as well occasionally. However, as I stated, the SJW left are critical of Christianity often, so it's a lesser concern.
    I'm just warning you because Islam receives special treatment on TSR (I think most of the mods are muslim)

    It's stupid how we are not allowed to criticise any verse from the evil quran without being banned.

    SJW TSR
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    (Original post by AwokenMuslim)
    I'm just warning you because Islam receives special treatment on TSR (I think most of the mods are muslim)

    It's stupid how we are not allowed to criticise any verse from the evil quran without being banned.

    SJW TSR
    Oh, I misunderstood you, my apologies.

    But yeah, I have noticed that general trend too. There is a lot of censorship when it comes to criticism of Islam (RIP KingBradly )
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    (Original post by Count Bezukhov)
    Oh, I misunderstood you, my apologies.

    But yeah, I have noticed that general trend too. There is a lot of censorship when it comes to criticism of Islam (RIP KingBradly )
    RIP epoddoulc
    RIP epoddoulc2
    RIP epoddoulc3
    RIP doulcepod17

    All the victims of Islamic censorship
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    I agree, but that bit on Christianity, let me try explain, as a Christian.

    You criticise the Old testament, which is fair enough. But why is the Old testament like this?

    The answer is because in the Old testament, God was a LAWFUL God.
    God was a bit like a judge. Binary morals - right is right, wrong is wrong.
    That is still true to some extent, but it was a rigid system.

    Jesus came in the New testament and completely revolutionized everything. EVERYTHING. This is why Christians don't pay attention to the moral views apart from the 10 commandment in the Old testament much.

    Jesus came and gave forgiveness a whole new meaning. God in the new testament was a graceful God (Jesus).
    He preached in ways to help people understand his take on morals.

    So when the lefties criticise the old testament, Jesus already did that. He changed Christianity.

    This is what seperates Christianity from Islam. Jesus modernized Christianity for us, before it was even in the modern era.


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    (Original post by Google22)
    I agree, but that bit on Christianity, let me try explain, as a Christian.

    You criticise the Old testament, which is fair enough. But why is the Old testament like this?

    The answer is because in the Old testament, God was a LAWFUL God.
    God was a bit like a judge. Binary morals - right is right, wrong is wrong.
    That is still true to some extent, but it was a rigid system.

    Jesus came in the New testament and completely revolutionized everything. EVERYTHING. This is why Christians don't pay attention to the moral views apart from the 10 commandment in the Old testament much.

    Jesus came and gave forgiveness a whole new meaning. God in the new testament was a graceful God (Jesus).
    He preached in ways to help people understand his take on morals.

    So when the lefties criticise the old testament, Jesus already did that. He changed Christianity.

    This is what seperates Christianity from Islam. Jesus modernized Christianity for us, before it was even in the modern era.


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    I agree that the teachings of Jesus are to be applauded, and the New Testament (at least in my opinion) somewhat redeems Christianity and is certainly more morally justified than parts of the Qur'an. But what I don't understand is how this suddenly means you can ignore the existence of the Old Testament. Was God wrong here? How could a perfect being possibly be wrong? If he always knew that Jesus would come to provide moral teachings (because he is omniscient), then what is the purpose of the Old Testament? Furthermore, I don't know why divine authority is needed to certify morality. I think most people would agree that killing is wrong, regardless of their religion (or lack of it).
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    (Original post by Count Bezukhov)
    I agree that the teachings of Jesus are to be applauded, and the New Testament (at least in my opinion) somewhat redeems Christianity and is certainly more morally justified than parts of the Qur'an. But what I don't understand is how this suddenly means you can ignore the existence of the Old Testament. Was God wrong here? How could a perfect being possibly be wrong? If he always knew that Jesus would come to provide moral teachings (because he is omniscient), then what is the purpose of the Old Testament? Furthermore, I don't know why divine authority is needed to certify morality. I think most people would agree that killing is wrong, regardless of their religion (or lack of it).
    That is a valid point - was God wrong in the Old Testament?

    To answer that, if we go way back to Genesis, when it all began, we see that God and man lived in peaceful harmony. Then the Forbidden Apple happened, and invariably, God's creation was infected with sin. Like a genetic disease, that sin was passed on generations and is now polluting this Earth to this very day.

    God planned his creation in the mind that sinful nature would not exist. That's why God put the Apple in the garden instead of giving it to them. God wanted his creation to have free will. And his first creations disobeyed him. They fell into the temptation.

    And thus, after that, God and man no longer lived in peaceful harmony.

    As sin corrupted the generations followed by Adam and Eve, God grew angry.

    "How can his beautiful creation go corrupt? How?" - Old Testament was a way of trying to remove sin from the world. That's why the Flood happened, that's why the Egyptians drowned, etc. God was not forgiving, he was angry. Lucifer ruined his creation, and God was trying to unwind it all, in a way.

    But alas, in the midst of the Old Testament, God had an alternative plan to deal with sin. He would send himself in human form and take the sins of the world on himself. That's why the coming of Jesus was prophesied. But it had to be at the right time.

    The alternative method was to instead of trying to remove sin, God accepted that man will be corrupt, no matter what, due to free will. So God came as Jesus and taught people ways in not to sin. This is why forgiveness is a huge part in the New Testament. God forgave his creation for being corrupt, and instead of being angry, he showed grace and loved them unconditionally, and left it up to them to accept or reject his teachings.

    So, God wasn't 'wrong' or anything in the Old Testament. He had a different mindset. And the Old Testament was more about the people than God. They are filled with accounts of what people did and what people had in mind mostly. So since they are people's accounts, they wrote/said stuff that suited in their century, e.g. slavery.

    Then Jesus came and gave everyone the ultimate guide on how they can live a good life with good morals. This included a complete upgrade on the Old Testament.

    The Old Testament has its purpose. To show how man got corrupt, and it then shows how the corruptness took place as the stories went on.

    The New Testament is a way of dealing that corruptness in a forgiving way. E.g. When the prostitute in the New Testament was getting stoned, Jesus did not join in. He stopped the stoning, and showed compassion and forgave her.

    I can see why some people may use the Old Testament in arguing against Christianity, but really, Jesus already dealt with that himself.

    Most Christians, 99% atleast, follow the New Testament teachings + 10 commandments.
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    (Original post by Count Bezukhov)
    Read it all before commenting. Thank you.

    Those on the (widely dubbed 'regressive' ) left of modern politics are often the first to leap to the defence of women's rights, gay rights, racial equality, and the like. Yet their defence of these values is both arbitrary and paradoxical, because they ironically extend their safeguarding to that which seeks to destroy these values.

    If a white male were to criticise any of the above listed doctrines, many on the modern left would brand him a bigot; a misogynist; a homophobe. So, naturally, they would also oppose any ideology that seeks to restrict equality and personal freedom? Surprisingly, this is completely incorrect.

    You see, when a religion becomes involved, that religion cannot be wrong. It must be respected at all times, according to this brand of modern leftism, even if it seeks to restrict women's rights, or gay rights. And anyone who criticises these religions - justly - receives the honorary branding of 'bigot', that marks you out as an enemy of 'tolerance'. If Islam is the religion in question (a paradoxical favourite of the left, despite it being the most extreme of modern religions on these issues), you may even be branded a racist; the modern left have a strange disconnect between what constitutes race and ideology, and assume that because the majority of Muslims are brown, that must be the reason why you - the white male - are opposed to them. They often do not even attempt to look at the underlying issue that generates this criticism in the first place.

    You see, religion is nothing more than a set of ideas with a special name, coupled with a vague supernatural element. If it was a doctrine like Marxism or fascism, then discussion of its negatives would be rife. In fact, this already occurs with ancient religions that revere deities such as Thor, Zeus, or Osiris. These religions have been confined to the history books. Yet, despite making equally as ludicrous and unsubstantiated claims, the modern Abrahamic religions command total respect. "It's just their culture," the left say, or, "respect their beliefs!" Why? They were clearly designed in and intended for a different century, and we have advanced far beyond Biblical or Quranic morality. In fact, parts of these 'holy' scriptures are not very moral at all. One only needs to look to the vengeful tyrant of the Old Testament, or the multitude of speeches from Allah condemning the unbelievers to an eternity of hellfire. These figures are not be respected at all - let alone worshiped! They are violent, and malevolent, and they are contributing to a host of regressive social values that still plague many parts of the planet today, stifling the global development of human rights and the growth of their respective countries into modern, tolerant societies.

    The left have made a start on condemning Christianity for its intolerant practises; it has even become a favourite hobby for many. The abortion clinic bombers, the anti-gay priests - these people are all justly criticised. But they need to extend their critical eye over all doctrines that seek to limit human rights, and not just those that are majority-white. They need to recognise that criticism of a religion does not amount to bigotry, or racism, or discrimination towards individuals. Criticism helps old religions to modernise, expose hate in all its forms, and contributes to the spreading of liberal social values to parts of the world that do not currently enjoy these luxuries. Sometimes, in order to do that, we must be intolerant of the intolerant.

    Think freely, be rational, and use empirical evidence wherever possible. If everyone can do this, the world will be a much better place.

    Merci d'avoir écouté
    Regards,
    A centrist who cares

    -----

    *Note that 'left' in this argument is specifically referring to the 'regressive', SJW-type left, not the sensible, moderate kind, before anyone accuses me of making 'sweeping judgements' about all who are left of centre. This modern strain is discrediting those on the left who are in fact quite judicious.

    **I'm preempting some replies here by saying that my message is not to restrict freedom of speech, thought etc, but to call it out on its BS, wherever it appears. People are perfectly entitled to have homophobic or misogynistic views, but I think a majority of people believe that these are clearly outdated, so explain to them why they are, rather than cowering behind the discourse of 'respecting' them no matter how outlandish they may be.

    ***Hope no one gets triggered by this 😬

    ****I may write a piece like this on the alt-right soon, if people want me to.
    The reason for this is the lack of understanding about Islam. Most of us are fairly knowledgable about Christianity and its different sects, which means we can better grasp the hypocrisy when they, for instance, decree homosexuality a sin, this means, having grown up with these people, they disgust us.

    I know nothing about Islam, the different sects (Sunni, Shi'ite) their different emphasis on rights of men v women. I know that nations that are majority Islam differ widely on their stances and views, muslims who grow up in "Westernised" countries but are familiar with Islam likely relate more with our Christianity than these fundamentalist nations.

    Its a lack of understand, and worse, despite a lack of understanding, the need of people here to be right and correct, hence we see the racism, people cannot grasp the concept of CERTAIN sects of Islam being awful, people can latch onto in droves though that Islam is a hateful religion.

    Lefties can criticise religions, but we don't know enough about it to specifically criticise the parts of Islam you highlighted. And it's better to acknowledge your limitations than blame an entire religion.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    The reason for this is the lack of understanding about Islam. Most of us are fairly knowledgable about Christianity and its different sects, which means we can better grasp the hypocrisy when they, for instance, decree homosexuality a sin, this means, having grown up with these people, they disgust us.
    Islam and the overwhelming majority of Muslims also decree homosexuality a sin. Do they also disgust you?
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    (Original post by Dara Dahl)
    Islam and the overwhelming majority of Muslims also decree homosexuality a sin. Do they also disgust you?
    Disagree, not disgust. We can hardly claim the moral high ground considering we also decried homosexuality as a sin up until very recently.
 
 
 
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