Muslim women Watch

This discussion is closed.
vortex_199
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 14 years ago
#1
Why on earth do people say Islam abuses women?
I live in Saudi Arabia and all I can say is we western women are much more abused than the women here. Saudi women are looked after well. I go to school with saudi girls, all of them have servants, go shopping whenever thy like (usually once a day) and do nothing but talk and play. When I say we dont have a maid they get so sorry for me and wonder how do I cope. People get the impression that muslims prefer son, but most wouldn't trade their daughters for boys.
As for polygamy it's usually western converts that do it. I suppose its because they used to have girlfriends and be 2-timers and stuff, they cant just give it up. I personally dont know any saudis with more than one wife, Ive heard of one or two.
I think in some muslim countries it's more culture that oppresses women, not Islam.
A lot of women here would never take off their covering, Im muslim and will never uncover inshallah. I feel respected and secure, not to have people looking at my figure.
Islam treats women right, it gave them rights way before the west eg. dowry and inheritance. People are very unfair to it.
0
MC
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#2
Report 14 years ago
#2
(Original post by vortex_199)
Why on earth do people say Islam abuses women?
I live in Saudi Arabia and all I can say is we western women are much more abused than the women here. Saudi women are looked after well. I go to school with saudi girls, all of them have servants, go shopping whenever thy like (usually once a day) and do nothing but talk and play. When I say we dont have a maid they get so sorry for me and wonder how do I cope. People get the impression that muslims prefer son, but most wouldn't trade their daughters for boys.
As for polygamy it's usually western converts that do it. I suppose its because they used to have girlfriends and be 2-timers and stuff, they cant just give it up. I personally dont know any saudis with more than one wife, Ive heard of one or two.
I think in some muslim countries it's more culture that oppresses women, not Islam.
A lot of women here would never take off their covering, Im muslim and will never uncover inshallah. I feel respected and secure, not to have people looking at my figure.
Islam treats women right, it gave them rights way before the west eg. dowry and inheritance. People are very unfair to it.
Totally agree. Some people are just too closed minded and ignorant to see this. What you have just said, its what many of my muslim friends say, and what I see.
0
[email protected]
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#3
Report 14 years ago
#3
From Amnesty International website:

Women in Saudi Arabia who walk unaccompanied, or are in the company of a man who is neither their husband nor a close relative, are at risk of arrest on suspicion of prostitution or other "moral" offences.

Nieves, a Filipina who was working as a maid in Riyadh in 1992, was invited by a married couple to celebrate the wife's birthday at a restaurant. She and a female friend decided to go. At the restaurant they were joined by a male friend of the couple. A group of mutawa'een (religious police) entered the restaurant, saw the group and arrested them. They suspected Nieves of being there for an introduction to the male friend of the couple. Nieves denied the accusation, but was deceived into signing a confession written in Arabic which she understood was a release order. That confession was the sole basis of her conviction and sentence - 25 days' imprisonment and 60 lashes which were carried out.

Women in Saudi Arabia, whether Saudi Arabian or foreign, emerge time and again as victims of discrimination and human rights violations because of the gender bias in law, social mores and traditions. While women have gained some ground in terms of economic rights, their civil and political rights are systematically violated.

Equal treatment for women and men is a fundamental principle of international human rights standards. Yet in Saudi Arabia discriminatory practices against women are not only prevalent, they are also in some cases required by law.

Strict segregation of the sexes, an integral part of Saudi Arabian society, has adverse and unequal effects on women, who are denied equal educational opportunities and may work only in certain vocations. Women's freedom of movement is severely restricted. They may not travel abroad unless they have the written authorization of a male relative, usually their father or husband, and may have to be accompanied. Inside Saudi Arabia, they are forbidden to drive, a ban made official in 1990 by a Fatwa (edict) issued by the Council of Senior 'Ulama (religious scholars).

Some laws are applied in a discriminatory fashion. The offence of khilwa (being alone with a male who is not an immediate relative), for example, is punishable for both men and women, but it appears to be more frequently enforced on women.

Women who breach the strict dress code for women also face arrest. Margaret Madill, a Canadian nurse working in Saudi Arabia in 1993, took a taxi home with a female friend after a shopping trip in Riyadh. Suddenly a mutawa' jumped into the taxi and forced the driver to go to the headquarters of al-Mutawa'een. When they arrived, the women were locked in the taxi in the extreme heat for up to six hours. They screamed for help and were then beaten. They were accused of indecent dress and public intoxication. They were then transferred to al-Malaz prison and held for two days, before being released without charge.

States are forbidden to criminalize the lawful exercise of rights enshrined in international human rights standards, such as the right to freedom of movement. In addition, laws should never discriminate against a particular group or be applied in a discriminatory manner.

The abuse of women's rights in Saudi Arabia is not simply the unfortunate consequence of overzealous security forces and religious police. It is the inevitable result of a state policy which gives women fewer rights than men, which means that women face discrimination in all walks of life, and which allows men with authority to exercise their power without any fear of being held to account for their actions.
0
IZZY!
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#4
Report 14 years ago
#4
Maybe ppl started not to like islam, because of american negative propaganda.USA always shows the negative side of its opponent. Same happened with Soviet Union, when america used its propaganda to destroy Soviet Union internally, making ppl against its government. maybe it is not rite.
0
MC
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#5
Report 14 years ago
#5
(Original post by [email protected])
From Amnesty International website:

Women in Saudi Arabia who walk unaccompanied, or are in the company of a man who is neither their husband nor a close relative, are at risk of arrest on suspicion of prostitution or other "moral" offences.

Nieves, a Filipina who was working as a maid in Riyadh in 1992, was invited by a married couple to celebrate the wife's birthday at a restaurant. She and a female friend decided to go. At the restaurant they were joined by a male friend of the couple. A group of mutawa'een (religious police) entered the restaurant, saw the group and arrested them. They suspected Nieves of being there for an introduction to the male friend of the couple. Nieves denied the accusation, but was deceived into signing a confession written in Arabic which she understood was a release order. That confession was the sole basis of her conviction and sentence - 25 days' imprisonment and 60 lashes which were carried out.

Women in Saudi Arabia, whether Saudi Arabian or foreign, emerge time and again as victims of discrimination and human rights violations because of the gender bias in law, social mores and traditions. While women have gained some ground in terms of economic rights, their civil and political rights are systematically violated.

Equal treatment for women and men is a fundamental principle of international human rights standards. Yet in Saudi Arabia discriminatory practices against women are not only prevalent, they are also in some cases required by law.

Strict segregation of the sexes, an integral part of Saudi Arabian society, has adverse and unequal effects on women, who are denied equal educational opportunities and may work only in certain vocations. Women's freedom of movement is severely restricted. They may not travel abroad unless they have the written authorization of a male relative, usually their father or husband, and may have to be accompanied. Inside Saudi Arabia, they are forbidden to drive, a ban made official in 1990 by a Fatwa (edict) issued by the Council of Senior 'Ulama (religious scholars).

Some laws are applied in a discriminatory fashion. The offence of khilwa (being alone with a male who is not an immediate relative), for example, is punishable for both men and women, but it appears to be more frequently enforced on women.

Women who breach the strict dress code for women also face arrest. Margaret Madill, a Canadian nurse working in Saudi Arabia in 1993, took a taxi home with a female friend after a shopping trip in Riyadh. Suddenly a mutawa' jumped into the taxi and forced the driver to go to the headquarters of al-Mutawa'een. When they arrived, the women were locked in the taxi in the extreme heat for up to six hours. They screamed for help and were then beaten. They were accused of indecent dress and public intoxication. They were then transferred to al-Malaz prison and held for two days, before being released without charge.

States are forbidden to criminalize the lawful exercise of rights enshrined in international human rights standards, such as the right to freedom of movement. In addition, laws should never discriminate against a particular group or be applied in a discriminatory manner.

The abuse of women's rights in Saudi Arabia is not simply the unfortunate consequence of overzealous security forces and religious police. It is the inevitable result of a state policy which gives women fewer rights than men, which means that women face discrimination in all walks of life, and which allows men with authority to exercise their power without any fear of being held to account for their actions.

Textbook and reality are two different things.
0
Vienna
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#6
Report 14 years ago
#6
(Original post by vortex_199)
Why on earth do people say Islam abuses women?
I live in Saudi Arabia and all I can say is we western women are much more abused than the women here. Saudi women are looked after well. I go to school with saudi girls, all of them have servants, go shopping whenever thy like (usually once a day) and do nothing but talk and play. When I say we dont have a maid they get so sorry for me and wonder how do I cope. People get the impression that muslims prefer son, but most wouldn't trade their daughters for boys.
As for polygamy it's usually western converts that do it. I suppose its because they used to have girlfriends and be 2-timers and stuff, they cant just give it up. I personally dont know any saudis with more than one wife, Ive heard of one or two.
I think in some muslim countries it's more culture that oppresses women, not Islam.
A lot of women here would never take off their covering, Im muslim and will never uncover inshallah. I feel respected and secure, not to have people looking at my figure.
Islam treats women right, it gave them rights way before the west eg. dowry and inheritance. People are very unfair to it.
Western women have equal rights for starts. there are so many points to pick on here, id be all day.
0
[email protected]
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#7
Report 14 years ago
#7
(Original post by Mad Caddie)
Textbook and reality are two different things.
Yes, and the abuse of women in SA is very much a reality, whatever the religious arguments it is discrimnination based on sex - which to me is wrong - the same thing happened in Britain a few hundred years ago (and even recently) where a husband was at liberty to rape his wife, up untill 60 years ago it was legal for a man to beat his wife with a strap not smaller than two figures thick, women couldnt vote untill the start of the century, attend certain universities etc it is called devlopment and civil change something the Kingdom of SA are completely against
0
jason0506
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#8
Report 14 years ago
#8
Lovely. Of course we all know how free and wonderful Saudi Arabia is. We just need to send our LibDems, Socialists and other left wing champagne do-gooders for a little trip there, so they can witness the procedure of feet beating, hand chopping, stoning to death and other democratic values that will enrich our British culture immensely. Evil Conservatives just fail to see how good and kind Islam actually is. It all started with the Prophet who killed his opponents at night when they were sleeping, robbed unguarded caravans in the desert and was terribly respectful to other people who did not wish to convert to Islam-he killed them and destroyed their idols. This all made Islam a very peaceful and tolerant religion as it is today.
To be honest I really feel sorry for Christian and atheist Iranis, Sudanese, Indians, Indonesians who come to seek refuge in England and to escape from the horrors of fundamentalist Islam and have to see the same picture of women covered from head to feet in burkas. I really feel sorry for those poor people.

Maybe even the Libdems will see this eventually, inshallah?
0
[email protected]
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#9
Report 14 years ago
#9
(Original post by vienna95)
Western women have equal rights for starts. there are so many points to pick on here, id be all day.
Vienna I think we may actually agree on something :eek:
0
[email protected]
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#10
Report 14 years ago
#10
(Original post by jason0506)
Lovely. Of course we all know how free and wonderful Saudi Arabia is. We just need to send our LibDems, Socialists and other left wing champagne do-gooders for a little trip there, so they can witness the procedure of feet beating, hand chopping, stoning to death and other democratic values that will enrich our British culture immensely. Evil Conservatives just fail to see how good and kind Islam actually is. It all started with the Prophet who killed his opponents at night when they were sleeping, robbed unguarded caravans in the desert and was terribly respectful to other people who did not wish to convert to Islam-he killed them and destroyed their idols. This all made Islam a very peaceful and tolerant religion as it is today.
To be honest I really feel sorry for Christian and atheist Iranis, Sudanese, Indians, Indonesians who come to seek refuge in England and to escape from the horrors of fundamentalist Islam and have to see the same picture of women covered from head to feet in burkas. I really feel sorry for those poor people.

Maybe even the Libdems will see this eventually, inshallah?
I agree with the point that you are making but what have the libdems done wrong (in relation to this not overall )
0
CurtainCall
Badges: 0
#11
Report 14 years ago
#11
(Original post by IZZY!)
Maybe ppl started not to like islam, because of american negative propaganda.USA always shows the negative side of its opponent. Same happened with Soviet Union, when america used its propaganda to destroy Soviet Union internally, making ppl against its government. maybe it is not rite.
Totally...I just don't think the ones who have never experienced the life in a country are given the right to judge the life there, especially when its own people feel nothing wrong about it
0
priya
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#12
Report 14 years ago
#12
(Original post by vortex_199)
Why on earth do people say Islam abuses women?
I live in Saudi Arabia and all I can say is we western women are much more abused than the women here. Saudi women are looked after well. I go to school with saudi girls, all of them have servants, go shopping whenever thy like (usually once a day) and do nothing but talk and play. When I say we dont have a maid they get so sorry for me and wonder how do I cope. People get the impression that muslims prefer son, but most wouldn't trade their daughters for boys.
As for polygamy it's usually western converts that do it. I suppose its because they used to have girlfriends and be 2-timers and stuff, they cant just give it up. I personally dont know any saudis with more than one wife, Ive heard of one or two.
I think in some muslim countries it's more culture that oppresses women, not Islam.
A lot of women here would never take off their covering, Im muslim and will never uncover inshallah. I feel respected and secure, not to have people looking at my figure.
Islam treats women right, it gave them rights way before the west eg. dowry and inheritance. People are very unfair to it.

at the end of the day as long as the women there are comfortable with it it shouldn't be a problem- we can't change the ways of the rest of the world. as time goes on and the influence of the west grows stronger, the laws may be forced to relax. i agree that its the culture that appears to be oppressive, not the laws of the religion itself- people's fear to preserve it has just sent everything spiralling backwards. if we all stopped criticising/attacking the religion, maybe it's followers would be able to feel more free to practice it, and not hold onto it's roots so tightly and misconstrue everything in the Qu'ran (sp) in an effort to do so.
0
[email protected]
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#13
Report 14 years ago
#13
(Original post by CurtainCall)
Totally...I just don't think the ones who have never experienced the life in a country are given the right to judge the life there, especially when its own people feel nothing wrong about it
How many SA women have you questioned on their feelings about being stoned for being unaccompanined with a non-relative? Remember these people havent chosen to live like this being born a women in SA means that this life is forced upon women whether they want it to be or not
0
CurtainCall
Badges: 0
#14
Report 14 years ago
#14
(Original post by [email protected])
How many SA women have you questioned on their feelings about being stoned for being unaccompanined with a non-relative? Remember these people havent chosen to live like this being born a women in SA means that this life is forced upon women whether they want it to be or not
Every nation has its own culture and tradition. And i think they deserv the respect from other part of the world
0
jason0506
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#15
Report 14 years ago
#15
(Original post by CurtainCall)
Every nation has its own culture and tradition. And i think they deserv the respect from other part of the world
What a cliche pile of crap. Just as Koran tells its followers to kill all infidels wherever they find them. Just as we are meant to respect Zimbabwe's regime just because it exists. Just as we were meant to respect Taliban.

It's a very simplistic, dead-end philosophy.
0
[email protected]
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#16
Report 14 years ago
#16
(Original post by CurtainCall)
Every nation has its own culture and tradition. And i think they deserv the respect from other part of the world
No they dont, just becasue something has become instilled within a society doesnt mean that it is acceptable particularly when the particular culture is forced on people by groups of Religiuous police with truncheons, whether or not some people in SA believe what happens is right does not mean that it is correct....tbh honest Im suprised the guy who posted the thread is on this forum as I was under the impression that internet access was highly regulated to avoid Saudis being exposed to western influence
0
priya
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#17
Report 14 years ago
#17
(Original post by jason0506)
What a cliche pile of crap. Just as Koran tells its followers to kill all infidels wherever they find them. Just as we are meant to respect Zimbabwe's regime just because it exists. Just as we were meant to respect Taliban.

It's a very simplistic, dead-end philosophy.
the actual problem lies in the self-righteousness of both a select few Christians AND Muslims. if they would get off their pedestals maybe then something will go right for a change.
0
CurtainCall
Badges: 0
#18
Report 14 years ago
#18
(Original post by jason0506)
What a cliche pile of crap. Just as Koran tells its followers to kill all infidels wherever they find them. Just as we are meant to respect Zimbabwe's regime just because it exists. Just as we were meant to respect Taliban.

It's a very simplistic, dead-end philosophy.
What i was talking about refered to culture,e.g people's living habbits and lifestyle. You're being too political!!
0
neha p
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#19
Report 14 years ago
#19
(Original post by vortex_199)
Why on earth do people say Islam abuses women?
I live in Saudi Arabia and all I can say is we western women are much more abused than the women here. Saudi women are looked after well. I go to school with saudi girls, all of them have servants, go shopping whenever thy like (usually once a day) and do nothing but talk and play. When I say we dont have a maid they get so sorry for me and wonder how do I cope. People get the impression that muslims prefer son, but most wouldn't trade their daughters for boys.
As for polygamy it's usually western converts that do it. I suppose its because they used to have girlfriends and be 2-timers and stuff, they cant just give it up. I personally dont know any saudis with more than one wife, Ive heard of one or two.
I think in some muslim countries it's more culture that oppresses women, not Islam.
A lot of women here would never take off their covering, Im muslim and will never uncover inshallah. I feel respected and secure, not to have people looking at my figure.
Islam treats women right, it gave them rights way before the west eg. dowry and inheritance. People are very unfair to it.
i agree with you. i went to dubai for a holiday, and i was amazed at how men rose from there seats on the bus to make room for a women :eek:
the bus was really full, and three different men stood up to stand do i could have a seat!!
i think some m,uslim women have a hard time at home. the stricter families expect them to bear a boy and nothing less etc, but i see where you are coming from.
0
CurtainCall
Badges: 0
#20
Report 14 years ago
#20
(Original post by [email protected])
No they dont, just becasue something has become instilled within a society doesnt mean that it is acceptable particularly when the particular culture is forced on people by groups of Religiuous police with truncheons, whether or not some people in SA believe what happens is right does not mean that it is correct....tbh honest Im suprised the guy who posted the thread is on this forum as I was under the impression that internet access was highly regulated to avoid Saudis being exposed to western influence
You're saying that because you were not born there and you're using the western standard to judge. Their culture is not acceptable to you because it is SOO different with yours. But for the ppl who have lived there their entire life, they have already formed their own standands to judge whether its acceptable or not to live that way. as long as they're fine with it, there's nothing to argue

Actually i do sometimes think the way some ppl in the other parts of the world are living quite unimaginable to me. But that's only because i've got my own culture and lifestye. So just let it be
0
X
new posts
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Have you registered to vote?

Yes! (129)
38.62%
No - but I will (19)
5.69%
No - I don't want to (25)
7.49%
No - I can't vote (<18, not in UK, etc) (161)
48.2%

Watched Threads

View All
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise