Muslim women Watch

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giordano
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#221
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#221
(Original post by Rose in Bloom)
ok, fair point...
I personally avoid any Islam related internet sites unless I am 100% sure and my father has checked it..
We are too young to judge anything cuz our islamic knowledge and practice way to lttle in comparison to the mashaiek (scholars of Islam- Aalim)...u can also ask them if what u r pursuing is correct or not...
Rose in Bloom, of course we all have people we think we can trust more than others, but with regard to scholars/imams/clerics, these are people who have invested their whole life, efforts and career on the basis of some assumptions about the Quran and Allah's word; not only, but their place in society, even their livelihood depends quite often from convincing people to adopt their strict religious outlook. How could one of them ever admit he was wrong? How is it possible to trust them?

In the end we have to take our decisions alone
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jason0506
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#222
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#222
The bible itself is a story book, you take it literally... though it is not reliable and has succumed to tampering...

The trinity makes so sense and is illogical, it teaches 3 Gods... or it teaches that 3 Gods make one God... totally illogical.


Well try reading more and it will start making sense to you. It makes a lot more sense that an illiterate man writing down his strange revelations that bear a painful resemblance to the Bible and Tora.

The concept of the Holy Trinity is something that theologians at Oxford have been arguing for years and there exists an immeasurably large mass of literature on the matter. If you want to read it of course and use your brain, rather than listen to the local imam who wants you to do exactly the opposite.
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Nik P
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#223
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#223
(Original post by jason0506)
The bible itself is a story book, you take it literally... though it is not reliable and has succumed to tampering...

The trinity makes so sense and is illogical, it teaches 3 Gods... or it teaches that 3 Gods make one God... totally illogical.


Well try reading more and it will start making sense to you. It makes a lot more sense that an illiterate man writing down his strange revelations that bear a painful resemblance to the Bible and Tora.

The concept of the Holy Trinity is something that theologians at Oxford have been arguing for years and there exists an immeasurably large mass of literature on the matter. If you want to read it of course and use your brain, rather than listen to the local imam who wants you to do exactly the opposite.
I would rather not do both... as i find both the religions a joke to be honest. The holy trinity is flawed, just as Christianity is fundamentally flawed... of course Judaism/Islam/Christianity are SIMILAR... they stem from the same father you dolt... Perhaps you should use your brain and question what good has come from following a religion, like a blind sheep you accept what you are told and fight over what is different... i am free, you are shackled to this idea that controls your life...
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jason0506
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#224
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#224
Ignorance is not freedom my friend.
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Nik P
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#225
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#225
(Original post by jason0506)
Ignorance is not freedom my friend.
Then my boy, you are not free...
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jason0506
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#226
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#226
This looks rather like a kindergarden fight and not an informed debate.
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Nik P
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#227
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#227
(Original post by jason0506)
This looks rather like a kindergarden fight and not an informed debate.
It is not my fault you are not informed, brain washed by a kiddy fiddling establisment with no morals...
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ThornsnRoses
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#228
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#228
(Original post by infekt)
www.submission.com isnt an atual islamic website ... its propoganda against islam ...
no offence its better than youre load of extremist ****....just because it doesnt advocate beating women up and dressing them in black from head to toe!

oh and its www.submission.org
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ThornsnRoses
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#229
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#229
(Original post by jason0506)
Ignorance is not freedom my friend.
lol... whos been reading 1984?
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fishpaste
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#230
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#230
(Original post by Nik P)
like a blind sheep you accept what you are told
Because Islam promotes questioning authority and not silly things like blind faith and unconditional submission. Yeah, totally.
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material breach
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#231
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#231
(Original post by fishpaste)
Because Islam promotes questioning authority and not silly things like blind faith and unconditional submission. Yeah, totally.
quite
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Mughal
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#232
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#232
Dear friends here is an interview that may help us understand what jamat-e-islami stand for.

Interview with Qazi Hussain Ahmed's advisor, Nawabzadaa Nabiullah Khan

(Qazi Hussain Ahmed was Amir=chief of Jamaat-e-Islami in Pakistan.

This interview was published in February 1999 issue
of "Jamhooria Islamia" a monthly Baluchi magazine published
from Panj-gar

Thanks to Jamil Baloch and Omar Nasr-Ullah who did the
translation. --

Interview with Nawabzadaa Nabiullah Khan

Interviewed by Jalil Amir ---
Q:Please tell us about your stay with Qazi Hussain Ahmed

A:Qazi has two bungalows in Peshawar. We spent lot of time
in both the houses. The first house is where his family
lived and the second house was his office and rest house.
But he used to meet all his friends and relatives and
political workers only in his family house. He made sure at
least for 3 days in a week, Qazi and his close friends used
to spend time in his rest house. Unlike his family house,
the rest house had all the amenities that one can think of.
It had 36-inch television. 2 satellite dishes to receive
all kinds of telecasts from all over the world. He had made
extensive notes on all the telecasts. We used to discuss
all the things under the sun in his rest house.

I had a habit of drinking small amounts of wine. Qazi never
drank or smoked. Qazi knew about my weakness for wine. He
advised me not to drink and asked me to follow the steps of
Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) . Though I had a habit of drinking
only in very small amounts of fine wine just before dinner,
on Qazi's insistence, I left that habit. When I was
studying in engineering college, I had started the habit of
smoking too. I left that habit after Qazi's advice on
smoking.

I stayed with Qazi for almost 6 years in Peshawar. I did
not agree to some of the strategies used by JI during the
after Zia years. Qazi is a very practical man while I was
more of an idealist at that time. I was insisting that the
JI should not rely on ballot as the only route to power.
Qazi was insisting that ballot is the only way for JI to
come to power in Pakistan. This introduced a sense of
alienation between Qazi and me. Hence when I went to
Baluchistan to meet my parents, I stayed back rather than
going back to Peshawar. Even though almost weekly once we
talk over phone, Qazi never called me back to stay with him
and I found my work as the Jamaat teacher in Quetta where I
stay now with my parents and family.

Yet, my years with Qazi in Peshawar and around the world
with him were the most satisfying years in my life
intellectually.

Q: What are Qazi's views on Islam and Prophet Mohammad
(PBUH)

A: Qazi was a great admirer and student of Prophet Mohammad
(PBUH) . He modeled his whole thoughts and life on the life
and teachings of Mohammad (PBUH). I was astounded many
times by Qazi when he does a small thing, he will
immediately compare that incident with an incident in Al-
Hadith and explain that he did what Prophet Mohammad (PBUH)
did 10 centuries ago. I had never seen a person who had
modeled his whole life on sayings and teachings of Prophet
Mohammad (PBUH) like Qazi.

Q: The women issue is very controversial nowadays. Taliban
and some fundamentalist organizations restrict the freedom
of women. While some progressive Muslim intellectuals are
insisting that the women are equal to men in all spheres.
What are Qazi's views on women?

A: As I said earlier, the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH)'s views
on women are the exact views of Qazi. Equality of men and
women is stupidity. What men can do, women cannot do and
what women can do, men cannot do. Women are weak physically
and mentally compared to men. For this we do not need any
proof other than to just look at men and women. Men have to
take care of women all the time. If some women do not have
any male relatives, then they have to find a man and marry
him so that he will take care of her. Women should not have
life outside the family. Education can be provided to them
but not to compete with men in public. Neither they can
fight in war nor they can be of use in peacetime politics.
Qazi had said once that JI comes to power in Pakistan, he
will abolish the voting rights of women and minorities.
Only the Muslim men can participate in voting or standing
for elections. When I asked the proof from Hadiths, he had
quoted many Hadiths in support of that. I asked him why is
that it is never talked openly in the public by Jamaat.
Qazi had said that the hints are all over the place. But JI
did not make it a big issue since the women who currently
have the voting may vote against JI in the elections if
such a thing is said openly. For this I was against. in my
opinion, since all the main leaders of Jamaat believes that
women will not have voting rights after they come to power,
they should openly say that. If you do not say now and then
you remove the voting rights later when you come to power,
that is going to build a resentment among the people. But
Qazi was firmly of the opinion that JI should not say that
now.

Q:That brings us to the question of minorities. Will they
have to pay Jizya tax?

A:Yes. They have to pay the tax. As explained by Qazi, the
idea of Jizya is not protection money. But it is a monetary
force on the non-Muslim to convert to Islam. Once the
Jamaat comes to power, the minorities will be induced
(forced) to become Muslims either by monetary or
psychological factors. JI is already equating the India
with Hindus so that the Hindus of Pakistan will be forced
to become Muslims. This was very successful strategy during
the Babri Masjid riots. JI actively involved in destroying
the Hindu temples in Punjab and Sindh. We ordered the
destruction of the Hindu family property too. But our main
aim was to destroy the Hindu temples. We wrote the JI
pamphlets that destroying each pagan temple make a Muslim
move closer to heaven of Allah. We used the Hadiths in all
the pamphlets. Babar destroyed the Ram temple in Ayodhya.
Because he was a true believer. The same way every Muslim
should take upon himself to destroy the Hindu temples in
Pakistan. Our idea was to encourage the Muslims of India
also to destroy the Hindu temples in India. But this was
not met with much success since the Hindu police in India
started attacking the Muslims who were doing the Allah's
duty.

Q: What kind of government that JI envisages for Pakistan?

A: It will be the Sharia govt. Sharia will be made our
constitution so that the eminent Muslim scholars who had
completed the schooling in Madrassas will be appointed as
the Judges in every court. Qazi wanted to make the
presidium on the same model as the Khalifa. Presently our
ideas is that the entire top leadership of JI as well as
all three military Generals will be part of the presidium
for which the Qazi will be the Kalifa. We are keenly
watching the progress of Taliban and learning from it. We
are impressed with the Taliban on the women issue,
minorities issue and law and order issue. Mullah Omar is a
great friend of Qazi. Omar had visited his house many
times. In the tentative talks, we had decided to form union
of Pakistan and Afghanistan once the right conditions are
set in Pakistan (i.e. the JI government in Pakistan). Our
motto is Constant Jihad. The idea is to keep Pakistan in a
constant state of Jihad all the time. Qazi's vision is that
Pakistan will be center of the new Islamic Empire that
stretches from Burma to Afghanistan and from Srilanka to
Tajikistan including Kashmir. Towards that end, Jamaat will
use all tactics from terrorism in the kafir-controlled
areas to negotiations in the Muslim controlled areas.
Already the Jamaat leaders of Bangladesh and Jamaat leaders
of India had accepted the primacy of Pakistani leadership
in this regard.

Q: Do they come to Pakistan?

A: Yes. We had made arrangements once in Peshawar and
another time in Multan during the Zia time. But the
understanding remains even now.

Q: What about Srilanka and Burma?

A: Both are Buddhist nations. For that matter even
Baluchistan and Afghanistan were Buddhist once while Sindh
and Punjab were Hindu earlier. Buddhists are generally
weaker in matters of faith. Hence we hope they will become
Muslim with a little pressure. But that will happen only
after Jamaat conquers first Pakistan and then India.
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Mughal
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#233
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#233
Q: What are the plans for India? It looks like entire India
policy of Jamaat revolves around Kashmir.

A: Yes that is true. But that is for a very good reason.
See Kashmir is like a keystone that sits on a top of the
arch. It is true that the arch holds the entire weight of
the keystone. But if you remove the keystone, then the
whole arch falls down. That is why it is called keystone.
Kashmir is the keystone for India. Once you remove that,
then India can no longer be secular and it will not be a
united country either. like the stones of the arch, all the
bricks will fall down. Qazi impressed this idea upon Zia.
Hence Zia started the Operation Topac. Operation Topac's
idea is not to get Kashmir for Pakistan as thought of by
Indian analysts. Operation Topac is much more. The ultimate
aim of Operation Topac is to make India a million pieces so
that it is easy for Pakistan to swallow India once piece at
a time. That is why Pakistan was encouraging the militancy
movements all over India. Once Kashmir is taken out, these
militancy movements will break India by asking the similar
freedom for Nagaland, Kerala, Mizoram, Meghalaya, Manipur,
Assam, Jharkand, Tamil Nadu, West Bengal and Khalistan. But
Benazir destroyed our whole plan by giving away the details
of the operation Topac to Indian govt. led by Rajiv Gandhi.
That was a big set back for our vision. But yet we are
moving ahead.

Q: I heard that she gave away only details about Khalistan
movement.

A: That is true. In my opinion, that is why I think the
damage is limited. India thinks and deals with separatist
movements in different parts of India as if they are
genuine movements even now. In that way, I say, the damage
is limited.

Q: Do you think if the states if India became independent
countries, no such similar movement will start in Pakistan
itself?

A: No. Jiye Sindh movement and small separatist movements
in Baluchistan and Peshawar are contained. We are not going
to deal with the separatism in Pakistan as India treats the
separatists. It will be Taliban style. Actually we do not
foresee any position for opposition in JI ruled Pakistan.
Hence the BNP and Pakhtoonkwa leaders will be made
irrelevant.

A: Coming back to the same point, If India to become many
countries how do you deal with the individual Hindu states.
They may even become big enemies of Pakistan. Or they may
again regroup to challenge Pakistan.

A: Qazi and other people had already discussed this
possibility. In our opinion, such a thing is not possible
since the language and cultural differences between states
in India are enormous. There is no language like Urdu to
bind all Indians. English and not Hindi that is common
language between all the states of India. Hence we have
planned to start riots in each state against the
neighborhood state people so that the states will always be
at the state of war. For example there are lot of
Kannadigas in TamilNadu and Telugu in Madras. We will start
the anti -telugu riots in Madras, which will keep the
Andhrapradesh and TamilNadu fighting. If we keep a bomb in
Telugu Cinema Theater in Madras and keep a bomb in Tamil
Movie Theater in Andhra, the war between Tamilnadu and
Andhra will run for eternity. The similar things can be
done in Assam cultural center in Bengal and Hindi prachar
sabha in Orissa. Given the differences between the
nationalities in India, the options for Pakistan are
endless. Qazi's vision is to make entire India a 100%
Muslim Nation. A United India, where Hindus are majority is
an impediment to that. Like Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) made
Muslims out of pagans of Arabia, Qazi also wants to make
Muslims out of the pagans of India.

Q: This is a great vision since this was not even possible
for the Muslim dynasties and Moguls who ruled India for the
last 700 years.

A: True. That is because they had never really established
the Muslim Empire. Though the Kings were Muslims they had
entertained the Hindus in positions of power. When you make
an unequivocal statement that only Muslims are voters and
declare that India is Islamic republic, then automatically
the people will become Muslims. Little bit of terror had to
be applied to the heart of Hindus and Christians. I will
give you a best example. The portions now constitute
Pakistan had 25% Hindu population before Independence.
After independence lot of Hindus migrated to India. Yet
after the migration, Pakistani Hindu population was 15%. Do
you know what is the percentage now? It is less than 1%.
How was this made possible? How did the Hindus converted to
Islam in a short span of 20 years whereas for 700 years
they had never converted to Islam? That is purely because
of the terror of the partition. That terror forced the
Hindus who remained in Pakistan to become Muslims. Pure and
simple. JI used similar techniques in Punjab and Sindh each
time a riot breaks out in India, we had used that pretext
to strike terror among the Hindus, Christians and
Ahmaddiahs. The similar terror will be at the heart of the
every non-Muslim both Hindu as well as Christian in coming
years in entire India. Qazi is a analytical genius who
knows every strategy that is used by Prophet Mohammad
(PBUH) will be and should be used in India to achieve the
total submission to Allah.

Q: Do you envision a possibility that when the Kashmir
becomes part of Pakistan, there could be large-scale riots
in India against Indian Muslims? Hence unwittingly Kashmir
could lead to more deaths of Indian Muslims and damage
Islamic Ummah.

A: Yes that is a possibility. But our ideology is based on
Quran and Hadiths. Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) in numerous
Hadiths and Allah in Quran had said that any Muslim who
associates with a polytheist in a polytheist. Muslims
cannot be friendly with a non-Muslim. This includes the
Christians, Jews and Hindus. Also Mohammad (PBUH) says that
even if the Muslim ruler is not good, the Muslims stay with
the ruler than to go out to a non-Muslim country. Hadiths
and Quran are very explicit regarding this. All the Muslims
who did not migrate to Pakistan during Partition are in
essence Hindus. They may think that they are Muslims. But
not before Allah. They are as self-deluded as the
Ahmaddiahs who think they are Muslims when everyone knows
that they are not Muslims. Hence the Muslims of India who
had decided to stay in India during partition are not
Muslims and their progeny are not Muslim (since they did
not migrate to Muslim lands). Another thing that I noticed
in my journeys in India is that the Hindu farmers generally
offer their entire harvest to their gods at the end of
their harvesting season. This makes the entire crop as
haram for Muslims. Yet these so called Muslims of India are
forced to eat this food which was already offered to some
other God other than Allah thallah. This is explicitly
forbidden in Quran. And this is one of the serious problems
of living in non-Muslim countries. Prophet Mohammad (PBUH)
knew such things; that is why he ordered Muslims not to
live in non-Muslim areas. Yet knowingly these so called
Muslims live in India. Again all the Muslims who migrate to
other countries and US are non-Muslims. Only the Muslims
who intend to come back are Muslims not the ones who decide
to stay in such countries.

Hence we do not care if such Indian Muslims die in the
riots. But due to strategy reasons we do have excellent
relations with these Muslims. All the Muslims who work for
Pakistan and for glory of Ummah are real Muslims. They are
our front line troops in non-Muslim countries. Hence we
have to distribute the arms and ammunitions to these real
Muslims in case of riots come to their door.

Whereas the Kashmiri Muslims are pure Muslims who are
toiling under the yoke of Hindu rule. They are victimized
by the international conspiracy to keep them under the
Hindu rule. That issue is part of the incomplete partition.
Whereas the Indian Muslims have accepted partition and
stayed on in India knowingly.

Q: Yet the popular uprising in Kashmir was missing in 1965
as well as in 1948.

A: That is true. That may be because of the clout of Sheik
Abdullah of Kashmir during 1948 war. Actually the Muslim
population in Jammu Kashmir was only marginally higher than
Hindus. Muslims constituted 58% while the non-Muslims
constituted the 42%. Hence the operation Topac aimed at
eliminating the Kashmiri Pandits from the valley. We
thought all of them will go to India. Instead many went to
Jammu and only very little went to India. Hence we had to
ask Harkatul to start terrorising the Hindus in Jammu. We
also expected large scale war against Muslims in Jammu as
well as in all the parts of India because of the killings.
Indian govt suppressed these information. Another thing
that was not done is the complete removal of Buddhists and
Hindus from Jammu and Kashmir. We could do only in Valley
and not in jammu and Ladakh. Hence the population of
Muslims in Jammu and Kashmir is around 65% only according
to Harkatul.
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Mughal
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#234
Report 14 years ago
#234
Q: Tell us about your stay in Saudi Arabia.

A: We embarked on a Umra as team of JI leaders. of course,
Zia had arranged every convenience for us. We were
accommodated in a Sheik's house. He is one of the richest
Builders in Saudi Arabia. He owns few gold shops in Qatar
too. Sheik was a personal friend of Zia Ul Haq. During the
time of Zia, we were not politically active. Since Zia did
whatever Qazi wanted, there was no need for political power
either. Hence we had lot of time. That is the main reason
why we stayed 3 full months in Sheik's palace. This sheik
comes from a Bedouin family of southwestern Arabia. He had
the habit of drinking camel urine and camel milk early in
the morning. I asked him why does he do that? He replied
that it is the family tradition as well as Islamic practice
that is supported by Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). I was
astounded. But Qazi explained to me that it is true. He
told me three or four Hadiths in which the camel urine and
camel milk drinking is suggested. So Qazi wanted to drink
the camel urine and camel milk along with the Sheik. Since
I could not bring up myself to drink the camel urine, I
drank only fresh camel milk, which was thick and frothy.
But Qazi drank the camel urine and camel milk the same
amount and same time as the sheik. Qazi astounded me in
this incident. I am amazed by the fact that Qazi was ready
to go any length to mould his life in the teachings of the
prophet.

Q: Does he continue to do that even today?

A: No. He bought a camel after coming to Pakistan. Three
years later he had kidney stones problem. As per the
doctor's advice he had to stop drinking the urine while he
continued the drinking camel milk. Doctor advised him to
stop drinking the milk as well since the camel milk is rich
in calcium compared to the cow milk. I think he stopped
drinking any milk or milk products. But he had said that
once JI comes to power in Pakistan, he will popularize the
camel milk and camel urine drinking in Pakistan. But I
doubt he can do that. In my opinion, only camel milk can be
popularized.

Q: That is quite news to me. How was your stay in Arabia
otherwise?

A: First I have to tell you that Saudi Arabia, as a country
name, is wrong. It is Just Arabia. Only that Saudi dynasty
rules over some parts of Arabia. You cannot put your name
before a holyland as if you own that land. For Pakistan if
Nawaz rules it, will it become Sheriff Pakistan and
tomorrow Bhutto rules it and will it become Bhutto
Pakistan?

Anyway, one thing we noticed is that the Arabians own
slaves. Though Allah says that the slaves should be treated
in a nice manner, he did not advocate the abolition of
slavery. If slavery is bad as considered in today's world,
Allah certainly would have said that the slavery is wrong.
Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) also said that the slaves should be
treated in a good manner and the slaves should be released
often. But if there is no slavery how can anyone release
slaves? Hence the reintroduction of slavery in Pakistan is
one of the future plans of Jamaat. All the captured Hindu
Indians and Srilankans will be made slaves to work for
Pakistani Muslims. Every God abiding Pakistani Muslim will
get slaves once we conquer India. All the slaves who
embrace Islam will be set free. Slavery is Islamic. Jamaat
is the only political party, which does not voice any
opposition to the slavery of Harees (defeated) in Pakistan.

We went around all over Arabia. We were surprised to know
that there are some Hindus in Yemen. These ancient Yemeni
Hindus are not Indians. In my opinion, these Hindus are
traders from India in the ancient times. I was also
surprised to know that they have a Shiva temple in Yemen.
Qazi was very unhappy over this. When he talked to Yemen
leaders, he broached this subject. But the Yemeni leaders
refused Qazi's suggestion of forced conversion of these
people to Islam. I don't know why they refuse. I think it
may be due to the large population of Hindus from India who
work in Yemen and Arabia. He disliked the current
leadership of Arabia for this reason. In his opinion,
Arabia should not allow any non-Muslim into holy lands of
Arabia. Arabia should be 100% pure. Large number of Hindus
in Arabia is corrupting the Arabians. Though they live as
contractors, they have the potential of corrupting the
minds of the Arabians. One such thing is the presence of
Arabians in Qatar Hindu temple. First the king allowed the
Hindus to build a temple and church in the holy lands there
by polluting the Holy Land. Second is that even a member of
the Royal family visit that temple to inaugurate that
temple. To the horror of Qazi he had learnt that one of the
powerful member of Qatar royal family is a devotee of a god
called Aayanppan. This news resolved Qazi to fight the
force of the devil thousand fold.

Q: Such things happen in Pakistan today. I mean a friend of
mine goes to a Hindu temple. Another friend goes to church
meetings.

A: Yes. One of Qazi's relatives wanted to become a Hindu.
He did not have a child for many years and it seems he had
prayed to a Hindu God and got the child. Hence he felt
thankful to that god and wanted to become a Hindu. Qazi got
to know of this and called him and threatened him dire
consequences. That relative did not become a Hindu. But
that incident made Qazi read more about apostasy. Quran and
Hadith clearly say the punishment for abandonment of Islam
is death. Since Sharia is not the law in Pakistan, and the
current Pakistani constitution grants right to change the
religion, it is legally correct to declare oneself as Hindu
or Christian. But once JI takes over the government, it
will make Sharia as the constitution. Then Pakistan also
legally execute any person who leaves Islam and joins
Ahmaddiah, Christianity or Hinduism the same way Iran and
Taliban treats its apostates. He also opined that the
presence of the Hindu temples in Pakistan is the root cause
of the problem and hence we want to destroy all the Hindu
temples and Churches in Pakistan.

Q: This brings us into another area. Right now Internet is
becoming widespread. Even Saudi Arabia is connected with
outside world. Destroying the temples may be good but how
we can insulate the Pakistani and Muslim people against the
corrupting knowledge totally?

A: JI had taken a principled stand on the matter of science
and religion. Religion is far superior to science. Whatever
man needs to know is in Quran and Hadiths. Knowing more
will create problems like the Atom bomb and Television.
Quran and Hadiths are explicit in denouncing pictures. Yet
the lure of Satan in the form of photography and television
is eating our lives. Music previously was confined only to
the vocal singing. Now science and technology made the
music widespread at a cheaper price. These are the lures of
Satan. We have to on guard against these harami things.

Hence more science and technology is bad for the
civilization. I had completed civil engineering. Hence I am
privy to scientific knowledge. I can tell you how
corrupting that is. It even makes you question the glorious
Quran. There are many Hadiths, which say that the earth is
flat. But any science will tell you the earth is a sphere.
But you can use the same science like relativity theory to
prove that the earth is flat. It is the same case with
evolution. But the point being that the doubt is sown in
the minds of the people on the validity of Quran as the
word of God. More and more we work hard in proving the
Quran's scientific correctness, more and more people will
get apprehensive of the truth of Quran. This is an
abomination. This is why when we talk of education, we talk
of religious education and not scientific education.

It is true that science grew after Prophet's revolution in
Arabia. That was start of science. Now each and every
science is filled with anti-god stuff. If you want to
become a doctor, you have to read evolution. If you have to
read any engineering you have to believe in the billions of
years old universe theory which effectively says that the
human beings came to world only in just one or two million
years back.


Q: But we still need the arms and knowledge of western
world, which believes in science. And again you had
referred to television as evil. If we abolish photography
how can we have passports or identification cards?

A: Yes. That is strategic. With the help of Allah, we will
be given oil for them to run their cars and we will have
arms in that place. We will use their arms to destroy them
in the course of time. As for as photos are concerned, they
will be banned as it is done in Afghanistan. If there is no
need for people to go out of Pakistan where is the need for
the passports? For those who have to travel to other
countries like the leaders of the revolution, they only
will be given the passport with photos. For that, we will
allow limited photography licensed only to govt. And the
biggest corruption in today's Pakistan is Indian satellite
TV and Indian cinemas and Indian culture.
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Vienna
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#235
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#235
(Original post by Nik P)
Christianity was just as oppresive as Islam...
was?

*tries hard not to post more on this thread*
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ace_justncase
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#236
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(Original post by giordano)
Rose in Bloom, of course we all have people we think we can trust more than others, but with regard to scholars/imams/clerics, these are people who have invested their whole life, efforts and career on the basis of some assumptions about the Quran and Allah's word; not only, but their place in society, even their livelihood depends quite often from convincing people to adopt their strict religious outlook. How could one of them ever admit he was wrong? How is it possible to trust them?

True, true, true. The prophet once said scholars are the inheritors of prophets. And yes there are alot of them that say things that are so wrong, and lots of them can't be trusted, but if a muslim follows them and the believe with all there heart what they are saying is true, then there is no sin on them, and also the scholar if he has looked in the quran and the sunnah, and he believes what he is saying is true. But if he is talking of the top of his head and hasn't comfirmed he's beleif's with anyone then a great punishment await's him. The prophet (PBUH) once said: "Do not tell a lie against me for whoever tells a lie against me (intentionally) then he will surely enter the Hell-fire." And the worst form of telling a lie on the prophet is saying he said something he did not say.

In the end we have to take our decisions alone
You are right, we should never follow anyone blindly (the only person that had that right was the prophet) but use your intellect if someone says something and you think it is wrong
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#237
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Christianity WAS as oppressive as Islam? Well one WAS and the other still very much IS.
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#238
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(Original post by ace_justncase)
True, true, true. The prophet once said scholars are the inheritors of prophets. And yes there are alot of them that say things that are so wrong, and lots of them can't be trusted, but if a muslim follows them and the believe with all there heart what they are saying is true, then there is no sin on them, and also the scholar if he has looked in the quran and the sunnah, and he believes what he is saying is true. But if he is talking of the top of his head and hasn't comfirmed he's beleif's with anyone then a great punishment await's him. The prophet (PBUH) once said: "Do not tell a lie against me for whoever tells a lie against me (intentionally) then he will surely enter the Hell-fire." And the worst form of telling a lie on the prophet is saying he said something he did not say.

Yes but that is basically what the original commentator said. You ought to follow a scholar even if he is a complete nutter and therefore there will be no sin on you, and you will live in heaven happily with your 72 virgins.


You are right, we should never follow anyone blindly (the only person that had that right was the prophet) but use your intellect if someone says something and you think it is wrong
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Well try reading more and it will start making sense to you. It makes a lot more sense that an illiterate man writing down his strange revelations that bear a painful resemblance to the Bible and Tora.
See Jason you said it yourself, how could an illiterate man write down strange revelations. Its was and is still impossible. The quran was so great that Quraish who had many learned people in their circle and whos knowledge of arabic and people was something to rival Shakespeare's command of english. And they couldn't make anything like the quran. The prophet first told them that if they thought he was such a lair, they should write something as great as the quran, and they couldn't. They he said to only write 10 surahs like it and they couldn't, then 1 surah and they still couldn't( the shortest surah in the quran is kawthar and it is only three ayah's) Imagine that a whole tribe unable to do something that an illiterate man did.
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#240
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Now there is a question for all muslims. What is Islam's opinion on homosexulity, what does your Imam say about it, and do you agree with it?
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