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    (Original post by neha p)
    :rolleyes: newbie!
    Biggles isnt a newbies hes the reincarnation of the must revered Gnostic series
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    (Original post by neha p)
    ok, so the men who beat their wives in the islamic context are wrong to do so. then going back to the original post, with regard to this particular issue, some islamic women have it harder than the western ones. am i correct seeing as western women don't get beaten?
    Dear Neha,

    Firstly I am pretty sure they are called Muslim Women. Not Islamic women. Islamic is not used to describe a follower of Islam.

    Secondly beating is described in that link very clearly and how it is not case. In the Quran it also says Do not treat women with harshness. Nor speak to them harshly or use harsh phrases. It won't take you that long to read but will give you a good idea of what Islam says. What the religion says.

    Third, If I call myself a Muslim but basically don't have a clue as to what Islam is, and don't believe in it's laws e.g. law: do not beat women. Am I then muslim? A muslim is he or she who submits themselves to Allah and what Allah has sent down - the Quran.

    Fourth, in my own humble opinion, yes I would argue that muslim women are suffering and more suppressed than western women. Why? Because the muslim communities are driven and ruled by men. Fanatic women suppressers. Who believe what they have between their legs makes them superior to women.

    In India they have cast system. Many muslims refuse to marry beneath their zaat. Zaat is kinda similar to cast. It is derived from your sirname. I have asked them why? When you God says he created all men and women equal and in all shapes and colors then who are you to decide whether they are beneath you or not. Then they usually shrug and say well thats how they do things.

    So conclusion once again, Culture is ruling the muslim world. What Islam says doesn't really matter so much. People think they know better than their God. End of story. That is also why no muslim country is like any other muslim countries. They all have their own culture which they abide by. Arabs have their own. Pakistanis their own. Turks their own. Bosnian their own and so on it goes.
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    (Original post by Outrageous)
    Dear Neha,

    Firstly I am pretty sure they are called Muslim Women. Not Islamic women. Islamic is not used to describe a follower of Islam.

    Secondly beating is described in that link very clearly and how it is not case. In the Quran it also says Do not treat women with harshness. Nor speak to them harshly or use harsh phrases. It won't take you that long to read but will give you a good idea of what Islam says. What the religion says.

    Third, If I call myself a Muslim but basically don't have a clue as to what Islam is, and don't believe in it's laws e.g. law: do not beat women. Am I then muslim? A muslim is he or she who submits themselves to Allah and what Allah has sent down - the Quran.

    Fourth, in my own humble opinion, yes I would argue that muslim women are suffering and more suppressed than western women. Why? Because the muslim communities are driven and ruled by men. Fanatic women suppressers. Who believe what they have between their legs makes them superior to women.

    In India they have cast system. Many muslims refuse to marry beneath their zaat. Zaat is kinda similar to cast. It is derived from your sirname. I have asked them why? When you God says he created all men and women equal and in all shapes and colors then who are you to decide whether they are beneath you or not. Then they usually shrug and say well thats how they do things.

    So conclusion once again, Culture is ruling the muslim world. What Islam says doesn't really matter so much. People think they know better than their God. End of story. That is also why no muslim country is like any other muslim countries. They all have their own culture which they abide by. Arabs have their own. Pakistanis their own. Turks their own. Bosnian their own and so on it goes.
    my dearest outrageous,

    i apologise for saying islamic women!
    i think i have gone too far into all of this muslim women thing. i understand why you are being serious about this, but you must understand i am merely an indian ladki
    thanks for explaining everything though, im glad to know that beating women isnt allowed and as i have said in a previous post, culture and religion are two different things.
    seriously, thanx though
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    (Original post by integral_neo)
    ur 19!! :eek: hahaha i got it
    lol, hiya!
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    (Original post by [email protected])
    No they dont, just becasue something has become instilled within a society doesnt mean that it is acceptable particularly when the particular culture is forced on people by groups of Religiuous police with truncheons, whether or not some people in SA believe what happens is right does not mean that it is correct....tbh honest Im suprised the guy who posted the thread is on this forum as I was under the impression that internet access was highly regulated to avoid Saudis being exposed to western influence
    You are really embarrassing yourself, how can you judge a people you know nothing about, you have just read about them watched crap on T.V. You should take from people who know what it's like to be here, who have lived amongst them and know the people. You should hear what the saudis have to say about us westerners, I tell them the same thing. Keep your mouth shut because you don't really know.
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    (Original post by [email protected])
    No they dont, just becasue something has become instilled within a society doesnt mean that it is acceptable particularly when the particular culture is forced on people by groups of Religiuous police with truncheons, whether or not some people in SA believe what happens is right does not mean that it is correct....tbh honest Im suprised the guy who posted the thread is on this forum as I was under the impression that internet access was highly regulated to avoid Saudis being exposed to western influence
    You are really embarrassing yourself, how can you judge a people you know nothing about, you have just read about them watched crap on T.V. You should take from people who know what it's like to be here, who have lived amongst them and know the people. You should hear what the saudis have to say about us westerners, I tell them the same thing. Keep your mouth shut because you don't really know. You don't take what you hear from the media, you don't think the media here doesn't say untrue stuff about you too.
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    (Original post by [email protected])
    No they dont, just becasue something has become instilled within a society doesnt mean that it is acceptable particularly when the particular culture is forced on people by groups of Religiuous police with truncheons, whether or not some people in SA believe what happens is right does not mean that it is correct....tbh honest Im suprised the guy who posted the thread is on this forum as I was under the impression that internet access was highly regulated to avoid Saudis being exposed to western influence
    You are really embarrassing yourself, how can you judge a people you know nothing about, you have just read about them watched crap on T.V. You should take from people who know what it's like to be here, who have lived amongst them and know the people. You should hear what the saudis have to say about us westerners, I tell them the same thing I'm telling you. Keep your mouth shut because you don't really know. You don't take what you hear from the media, you don't think the media here doesn't say untrue stuff about you too.
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    was it necessary 3 times?
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    (Original post by ace_justncase)
    You are really embarrassing yourself, how can you judge a people you know nothing about, you have just read about them watched crap on T.V. You should take from people who know what it's like to be here, who have lived amongst them and know the people. You should hear what the saudis have to say about us westerners, I tell them the same thing. Keep your mouth shut because you don't really know.
    To quote Mr Biggles I dont have to stick my hand into acid to know that it will hurt - dont tell me to shut up or ill issue a fatwa and have the religious police round to beat you to death, actually you should be fine being a man and all
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    (Original post by neha p)
    am i correct seeing as western women don't get beaten?
    Actually some do: it's called domestic violence. The difference is that some of the countries operating under Sharia law seem to turn a blind eye to, or even condone, it; but I wonder if this may change? Especially after the bravery of the news presenter who told the world what her husband had done to her - hopefully it might have just planted the seeds of doubt in some people's minds, and progress might now be made...

    As a white middle-class woman, I know I don't know anything BUT I would agree that, from what I know of the Koran, Islam is NOT a violent or suppressive religion - far from it. It's just that, like any religion, you can bend its words to suit your causes. Christianity was abused just as much 600 years ago - in fact not necessarily abused: the Bible condones acts of violence and suppression. Anyone in any doubt should read Leviticus.

    I keep meaning to read the Koran properly - are there English translations on the Internet?
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    (Original post by MadNatSci)
    Actually some do: it's called domestic violence. The difference is that some of the countries operating under Sharia law seem to turn a blind eye to, or even condone, it; but I wonder if this may change? Especially after the bravery of the news presenter who told the world what her husband had done to her - hopefully it might have just planted the seeds of doubt in some people's minds, and progress might now be made...

    As a white middle-class woman, I know I don't know anything BUT I would agree that, from what I know of the Koran, Islam is NOT a violent or suppressive religion - far from it. It's just that, like any religion, you can bend its words to suit your causes. Christianity was abused just as much 600 years ago - in fact not necessarily abused: the Bible condones acts of violence and suppression. Anyone in any doubt should read Leviticus.

    I keep meaning to read the Koran properly - are there English translations on the Internet?

    you might be a "white middle-class woman" but you make far more sense than a lot of people on here, thats for sure
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    (Original post by vortex_199)
    Why on earth do people say Islam abuses women?
    I live in Saudi Arabia and all I can say is we western women are much more abused than the women here. Saudi women are looked after well. I go to school with saudi girls, all of them have servants, go shopping whenever thy like (usually once a day) and do nothing but talk and play.
    Look at the way maids are treated in SA. Presumably they aren't properly human, so it isn't abuse.
    I think in some muslim countries it's more culture that oppresses women, not Islam.
    You mean islam isn't part of the culture of muslim countries?
    A lot of women here would never take off their covering, Im muslim and will never uncover inshallah. I feel respected and secure, not to have people looking at my figure.
    You are perfectly entitled to do so. People who disagree with you also have rights.
    Islam treats women right, it gave them rights way before the west eg. dowry and inheritance. People are very unfair to it.
    It gave certain rights to muslim women, agreed. It gave powers to muslim men. Islam maintains that there is no need to bother with any other rights, now or for ever.

    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    lol Biggles withdrew his comment...he saw the neg rep commin his way!
    Even I realise that some of my jokes go too far sometimes...
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    this should be moved to d+d. vienna will have a good few things to say to some of you strong minded people
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    I read through this whole thread and was quite surprised by a few things. Its nice to see that for a change people aren't accusing ISLAM for anything, instead its the cultures to blame.And I agree with that.
    I am a very religious muslim girl myself...I think that Islam is to be followed correctly and directly through the commands in the Quran and in the Hadith..
    Allah sent the Quran with the commands and Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) showed us how to do them (sunnah)...so, in the light of Quran and sunnah, Islam is a very simple and harmless religion to follow...
    Many ppl say they are muslims but fail to carry out the most important things like pray 5 times aday...These are the ppl who have set a wrong impression of this religion...along with the international propaganda...BUT its our duty to bring them back on the correct path becuz Muhammad (PBUH) was the last prophet, and there will be no more until the day of judgement so its our job to guide these mislead muslims back on the staright path....
    As far as the issues of muslim women go, my personal opinion is that u have to be a muslim woman yourself to see how secure and respected u feel...

    Walaikum Assalam
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    Women is saudi arabia are abused!!!

    But then that isnt the way Islam is suppose to be...

    Like it has been said, if i were to outline the whole thing, it would take days, and that it would only lead to a very tense discusion.... :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Rose in Bloom)
    I read through this whole thread and was quite surprised by a few things. Its nice to see that for a change people aren't accusing ISLAM for anything, instead its the cultures to blame.And I agree with that.
    I am a very religious muslim girl myself...I think that Islam is to be followed correctly and directly through the commands in the Quran and in the Hadith..
    Allah sent the Quran with the commands and Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) showed us how to do them (sunnah)...so, in the light of Quran and sunnah, Islam is a very simple and harmless religion to follow...
    Many ppl say they are muslims but fail to carry out the most important things like pray 5 times aday...These are the ppl who have set a wrong impression of this religion...along with the international propaganda...BUT its our duty to bring them back on the correct path becuz Muhammad (PBUH) was the last prophet, and there will be no more until the day of judgement so its our job to guide these mislead muslims back on the staright path....
    As far as the issues of muslim women go, my personal opinion is that u have to be a muslim woman yourself to see how secure and respected u feel...

    Walaikum Assalam
    That is a brillient post well said
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    (Original post by [email protected])
    To quote Mr Biggles I dont have to stick my hand into acid to know that it will hurt - dont tell me to shut up or ill issue a fatwa and have the religious police round to beat you to death, actually you should be fine being a man and all
    1. I'm a girl.
    2. You don't issue a Fatwa to hit someone they don't even issue a warrant. Imagine that, "I have a warrant for your beating." It's not called a fatwa if it was anything it would be a warrant.
    And anyway that doesn't matter, it's common knowledge in uk black people and asians get beaten up all the time by the police, even WITHOUT a fatwa (if that's what you insist on calling it.)
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    (Original post by randdom)
    That is a brillient post well said
    Thanx!..
    I am very religious but at the same time I have been exposed to all sorts of religions and cultures that I have come to the conclusion that we shud respect everyone and their way of living instead of criticising(sp?)...we can't really say anything abt anyone else regarding thier religion or culture cuz we are different to them and can't fairly judge them becuz we haven't experienced it...

    I guess the world will be an easier place if ppl did the same and respected others instead of what they are doing now...

    Rose
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    (Original post by Rose in Bloom)
    I read through this whole thread and was quite surprised by a few things. Its nice to see that for a change people aren't accusing ISLAM for anything, instead its the cultures to blame.And I agree with that.
    I am a very religious muslim girl myself...I think that Islam is to be followed correctly and directly through the commands in the Quran and in the Hadith..
    Allah sent the Quran with the commands and Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) showed us how to do them (sunnah)...so, in the light of Quran and sunnah, Islam is a very simple and harmless religion to follow...
    Many ppl say they are muslims but fail to carry out the most important things like pray 5 times aday...These are the ppl who have set a wrong impression of this religion...along with the international propaganda...BUT its our duty to bring them back on the correct path becuz Muhammad (PBUH) was the last prophet, and there will be no more until the day of judgement so its our job to guide these mislead muslims back on the staright path....
    As far as the issues of muslim women go, my personal opinion is that u have to be a muslim woman yourself to see how secure and respected u feel...

    Walaikum Assalam
    Thanks for this post. However, the Quran does contain harsh words for women: most well-known, the wife-beating authorization contained in Surah An-Nisa, which I include yet again in the three translations I have found on the net:

    004.034
    YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
    PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
    SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great

    There are other verses in the Quran which are kinder to women, but it is difficult to "interpret away" the negative ones.
 
 
 
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