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    M421 - Russian Sanctions Motion 2017, TSR UKIP

    This House Recognizes That:
    • The United Kingdom currently participates in economic sanctions on the Russian Federation in coordination with the European Union.
    • That these sanctions have been ineffective in deterring Russian aggression.
    • That these sanctions have failed to harm the targeted oligarchs of the Russian Federation.
    • That these sanctions have harmed the ordinary Russian people, who were not targeted.
    • That these sanctions have led to more resentment of the West by the Russian people, and negatively impacted relations.
    • That these sanctions have negatively impacted the UK economy.


    This House urges:
    • That the government commits itself to not resume sanctions on the Russian Federation.
    • That the government forges better relations with President Vladimir Putin and the Russian Government for the mutual benefit of both nations.

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    Can TSr UKIP actually provider any solid evidence for meaningful negative impact on the Uk economy, and as for the Russian people not being the targets, they are exactly the group targeted, because it's the people that apply the domestic political pressure.
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    To be frank, were I sure that all this were true I'd probably abstain, but given it's UKIP and no sources have been provided I'm assuming that most of it is deliberately written to obfuscate the situation. Nay.
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    Proof?
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    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Proof?
    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    To be frank, were I sure that all this were true I'd probably abstain, but given it's UKIP and no sources have been provided I'm assuming that most of it is deliberately written to obfuscate the situation. Nay.
    For a lot of those points you do not need proof, there does not need to be a Royal Commission to confirm sanctions that harm the daily activities of Russians, and the Russian government are not going to be liked by Russia. The point with questions over is the claim of harming the UK economy but that is intuitive if wealthy Russians have their business activities restricted over the world.
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    Fully support. The Russians sanctions are not working. The path to peace is not through ganging up in conglomerate on a country. This is how WWI came about. The UN (unlike many liberals like to believe) is simply a left-wing hivemind. It is not a place of dialogue or communication.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    For a lot of those points you do not need proof, there does not need to be a Royal Commission to confirm sanctions that harm the daily activities of Russians, and the Russian government are not going to be liked by Russia. The point with questions over is the claim of harming the UK economy but that is intuitive if wealthy Russians have their business activities restricted over the world.
    What about failing to harm the oligarchs?

    Not like you, tbh, protecting the interests of the common man ahead of the oligarchs.
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    Abstain, I think the sanctions are righteous and deserved for Putin's aggressive attitude to Syria and illegal annexation of Crimea.

    However, on the other hand I do acknowledge that removing sanctions would boost the economy by allowing for more trade with Russia and potentially allowing russian businesses to thrive in the UK.
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    Abstain, I don't see compelling arguments for either side
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    I may be tempted to support this if I am given a sensible reason of why sanctions have been ineffective. After all, Russia hasn't made any Ukraine-related threats in a while.
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    Abstain, I think the sanctions are righteous and deserved for Putin's aggressive attitude to Syria and illegal annexation of Crimea.

    However, on the other hand I do acknowledge that removing sanctions would boost the economy by allowing for more trade with Russia and potentially allowing russian businesses to thrive in the UK.
    Putin did not illegally annex Crimea. The people of Crimea and Sevastopol voted in a referendum to join the Russian Federation.
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    (Original post by Unown Uzer)
    Putin did not illegally annex Crimea. The people of Crimea and Sevastopol voted in a referendum to join the Russian Federation.
    Yeah, just like the people of Austria 'voted' for Anschluss.
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    abstain
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    Nay.

    To no longer impose sanctions would be to capitulate to Russian aggression.

    (Original post by BobBobson)
    Fully support. The Russians sanctions are not working. The path to peace is not through ganging up in conglomerate on a country. This is how WWI came about. The UN (unlike many liberals like to believe) is simply a left-wing hivemind. It is not a place of dialogue or communication.
    Are you suggestions that nations should not form strategic alliances?

    WW1 came about because Russia (without any treaty even) chose to defend Serbia from the Austria-Hungarian Empire. Germany then used this as an opportunity to expand its borders and immediately declared war on Russia as a pretext to invading France and Belgium.

    I'm not sure the UN has anything to do with these sanctions. I largely oppose the UN.

    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    I may be tempted to support this if I am given a sensible reason of why sanctions have been ineffective. After all, Russia hasn't made any Ukraine-related threats in a while.
    The war in eastern Ukraine is actually getting worse, that however is reason to increase sanctions.

    ........

    I implore the government to dispatch our forces to the black sea and eastern Europe while substantially increasing the military budget.
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    Nay.

    I suspect my views are closer to Rakas' on this issue than most others who have so far commented.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)

    The war in eastern Ukraine is actually getting worse, that however is reason to increase sanctions.
    How do we know it is getting worse?
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    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    How do we know it is getting worse?
    Newsnight or the Daily Politics had a peice last week. After that I read around.

    Much like Syria both sides are being armed by the west and Russia in our grand game of geopolitical chess.
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    Rakas has said it all for me. I wish people wouldn't abstain, for goodness sake take a position.
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    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    I may be tempted to support this if I am given a sensible reason of why sanctions have been ineffective. After all, Russia hasn't made any Ukraine-related threats in a while.
    That would be because they've already got what they want in Ukraine.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    For a lot of those points you do not need proof, there does not need to be a Royal Commission to confirm sanctions that harm the daily activities of Russians, and the Russian government are not going to be liked by Russia. The point with questions over is the claim of harming the UK economy but that is intuitive if wealthy Russians have their business activities restricted over the world.
    You need to demonstrate meaningful harm to the UK economy, if it's knocked a fiver off the GDP of Croydon, for instance, that is still economic harm but ultimately irrelevant and perfectly acceptable.
 
 
 
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