Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

The Truth About MUSLIMS- EXPOSED!! Watch

    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Laughh3)
    If each was left to their own, with no guidance, the world would be full of chaos.
    And the areas of the world subject to the strictest religious edicts are an oasis of calm and order? (The Middle East, anyone?)
    Whereas the most secular countries are basically just war zones (Scandinavia?)
    Oh, hold on...
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SnowflakeFurnace)
    Would you like a skittle? Here's a bowl: 1 is poisonous, but the other 99 are fine. Stick your hand in and pick one, and remember: life is cheap. What's the odd murder or violent explosion in the face of the political objectives of the Democratic Party?
    Americans are thousands of times more likely to be murdered by a white US citizen than by an immigrant from the Middle East.
    Whatcha gonna do about that? Buy more poisoned Skittles?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by QE2)
    Americans are thousands of times more likely to be murdered by a white US citizen than by an immigrant from the Middle East.
    Whatcha gonna do about that? Buy more poisoned Skittles?
    Ah, good. The 'all identities in the USA are represented proportionately in society' argument. Oh, wait...they aren't.

    White people are 69% of the population of the USA. Muslims are 0.9% of the population of the USA.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SnowflakeFurnace)
    Ah, good. The 'all identities in the USA are represented proportionately in society' argument. Oh, wait...they aren't.

    White people are 69% of the population of the USA. Muslims are 0.9% of the population of the USA.
    This doesn't make any sense. If...
    "Identities in the USA" = White, black, Muslim, Christian, whatever, and
    "Represented proportionaltely in society" = The numbers of each "identity " in society are proportional to their percentage of the total population, then the 69% white and 0.9% Muslims will be represented by that proportion.
    You appear to have constructed some kind of clumsy tortology.

    Anywho, none of which helps your terrible Skittles analogy.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Laughh3)
    Yes, terrorism is wrong in any context but the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) was at war, not promoting terror.

    i think youll find all terrorists from the ira, to al quaeda to farc and moaist rebels, claim they are at war. they are simply trying to provide justifications for their violent actions - mohammed no different, in his case justifying his land grabbing in the arabian peninsula
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Onde)
    "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg

    "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them." - qur'an 8:12
    Many non-Muslims take this verse out of context. This verse came down when the Muslims were a minority fighting a majority of the disbelievers and hence the verse was revealed to make the Muslims steadfast.

    We can see elsewhere in the Qur'aan, and very clearly, verses that command the Muslims to be good and just to the disbelievers such as:


    Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

    Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.
    Qur'aan 60:8-9
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Onde)
    Terrorism is wrong in any context. Also, Christ in the New Testament was able to create a religion that specifically told his followers not to engage in violence, which of course rules out wars, terrorism etc. There are many other religions and philosophies that have a similar attitude to violence. Muhammad had no excuse.
    To be honest, there isn't much excuse for Christianity either.

    When the Old Testament is quoted, Christians claim that the New Testament is a more accurate reflection of Christian doctrine. When the New Testament is quoted to defend something they don't like they refer back to the Old Testament. Like bruh, make up yer minds.

    http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm
    These are references to homosexuality in the Bible. 1-36 is OT, 37-54 are NT. You'll find that the NT has minimal negative connotations to homosexuality, whereas the OT is commonly misquoted or misunderstood to favour negative arguments. You can argue that this is the fault of Christianities followers, and not the Bible, but for something that's supposed to be our moral compass it's inconsistent, vague, and questionable at best. There shouldn't be room to twist its scriptures with our own interpretations.

    Additionally, for something claiming to be the Perfect Truth™, it has a pretty morally flawed God in the OT (and NT tbh). You would think that the one book inspired by God would leave out the bits where He would strike down people for making fun of a bald guy (not even making this sh!t up, have a look http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Example...illings_by_God).

    Yes, sure the New Testament has some nice bits, but you can't cherry pick and completely disregard a whole chunk of the Bible and claim that it's The Truth and inspired by a "good, benevolent, and perfect" God.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Onde)
    Verses such as this say that Allah will cast terror upon those who disbelief in this life and the next, and therefore, Muslims are expected to do the same. To say that the passage means "The disbelievers will be terrorised in this life and the next, but I only expect you to terrorise the unbelievers on Mondays" is deeply misguided.

    "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help." - qur'an 3:56

    Passages such as these:
    "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." - qur'an 4:104

    "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." - qur'an 9:5

    "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." - qur'an 9:29

    Tell Muslims to go out of their way to attack peaceful non-Muslim communities, and is clearly meant to be a timeless commandment.

    "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion is all for Allah" - qur'an 8:39

    This verse does not mean "only" fight and kill them a little bit, "only" on Mondays, and "only" in Saudi Arabia.

    In any case, fighting and killing peaceful populations is wrong in any context.
    For clarification, the verse you quoted earlier and the verses I quoted talk about how Muslims deal with non-Muslims in thos world. There was no mention of the hereafter.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by humblelearner)
    Many non-Muslims take this verse out of context. This verse came down when the Muslims were a minority fighting a majority of the disbelievers and hence the verse was revealed to make the Muslims steadfast.

    We can see elsewhere in the Qur'aan, and very clearly, verses that command the Muslims to be good and just to the disbelievers such as:


    Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

    Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.
    Qur'aan 60:8-9
    To be accurate, this verse merely "does not forbid" Muslims from dealing kindly and justly with those who do not fight them. So we can infer from this:
    1. It is not compulsory for Muslims to treat disbelievers kindly and justly - even if they didn't fight against you. So they are permitted to be unkind and unjust to them if that is what they want to do.
    2. Muslims are forbidden from dealing justly and kindly with those who refuse to submit to Islam.

    Not sure if that is what you hoped to show when quoting that verse.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by QE2)
    To be accurate, this verse merely "does not forbid" Muslims from dealing kindly and justly with those who do not fight them. So we can infer from this:
    1. It is not compulsory for Muslims to treat disbelievers kindly and justly - even if they didn't fight against you. So they are permitted to be unkind and unjust to them if that is what they want to do.
    2. Muslims are forbidden from dealing justly and kindly with those who refuse to submit to Islam.

    Not sure if that is what you hoped to show when quoting that verse.
    This is absolutely wrong because the verse commands Muslims to be just and kind and nowhere in the verse or elsewhere does God command the Muslims to be unjust to non-Muslims. Please provide evidence for your claim.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by humblelearner)
    This is absolutely wrong because the verse commands Muslims to be just and kind and nowhere in the verse or elsewhere does God command the Muslims to be unjust to non-Muslims. Please provide evidence for your claim.
    It is not what the vese says, but what it doesn't say. It is permission by omission.

    "God does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with those who have not fought against you about the religion or expelled you from your homes."

    If you are not forbidden from doing something, it just means it is allowed, not that it is compulsory.
    "I do not forbid you from eating that cake" means I can eat the cake if I want, but I don't have to eat it. I can not eat it if I want.

    The following verse does forbid kindness. It says
    "Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of religion"

    Here it is compulsory to not treat kindly those who fought against Islam.

    So:
    1. If you didn't fight against Islam - you can be treated kindly or unkindly, it is up to the individual Muslim.
    2. If you fought against Islam - you cannot be treated kindly.

    Now can you see what these verses actually mean?
    • Offline

      17
      Spoiler:
      Show

      they're human
      Offline

      16
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by Onde)
      This is true, but Christians have no doctrine to justify the persecution or killing of others, unlike Muslims. Christian doctrine is "Turn the other cheek", "Love thy neighbour", "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", whereas Islamic doctrine endorses total war against the unbelievers. The difference in emphasis is that with Christianity, god does all the persecuting and torturing in the afterlife, whereas with Islam, Muslims are expect to join in with the persecuting and torturing in this life. But this thread isn't about Christianity, it is about Islam - I only mentioned Christianity because it predated Islam by centuries and is commonly known while being superior - or at least, less bad, than Islam.
      So you're really just picking the lesser of two evils?
      Offline

      2
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by QE2)
      It is not what the vese says, but what it doesn't say. It is permission by omission.

      "God does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with those who have not fought against you about the religion or expelled you from your homes."

      If you are not forbidden from doing something, it just means it is allowed, not that it is compulsory.
      "I do not forbid you from eating that cake" means I can eat the cake if I want, but I don't have to eat it. I can not eat it if I want.

      The following verse does forbid kindness. It says
      "Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of religion"

      Here it is compulsory to not treat kindly those who fought against Islam.

      So:
      1. If you didn't fight against Islam - you can be treated kindly or unkindly, it is up to the individual Muslim.
      2. If you fought against Islam - you cannot be treated kindly.

      Now can you see what these verses actually mean?
      You are right that it is left to the individual but this is the case with every human being- they are not forced to like or be kind to someone. This depends on the person one is dealing with. For example, if someone is not being nice to me, outside of war, I am free to be kind or unkind to them as I wish according to the circumstances.

      But still in the Qur'aan there are verses that advise you to overlook such behaviours.
      Offline

      2
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by Onde)
      If Allah says it will torture and terrorise nonbelievers in the hereafter, therefore Muslims should do the same, it is unlikely that Allah only expects the torture and terrorising to have been committed on one occasion many centuries ago. The qur'an is clear that Muslims are expected to wage war until there is only worship for Allah.
      We are not talking here about God and His will and what He can do in the hereafter. In Islam, God cannot be questioned for what He does but we as humans, are governed by a law for this life.
      • Community Assistant
      Offline

      20
      ReputationRep:
      Spoiler:
      Show


      Offline

      2
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by QE2)
      It is not what the vese says, but what it doesn't say. It is permission by omission.

      "God does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with those who have not fought against you about the religion or expelled you from your homes."

      If you are not forbidden from doing something, it just means it is allowed, not that it is compulsory.
      "I do not forbid you from eating that cake" means I can eat the cake if I want, but I don't have to eat it. I can not eat it if I want.

      The following verse does forbid kindness. It says
      "Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of religion"

      Here it is compulsory to not treat kindly those who fought against Islam.

      So:
      1. If you didn't fight against Islam - you can be treated kindly or unkindly, it is up to the individual Muslim.
      2. If you fought against Islam - you cannot be treated kindly.

      Now can you see what these verses actually mean?

      One of the verses that advises Muslims to overlook is:

      Qur'aan 5:2

      God says:

      And do not let the hatred of a people for having obstructed you from The Sacred Mosque lead you to transgress...
      Offline

      16
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by humblelearner)
      You are right that it is left to the individual but this is the case with every human being- they are not forced to like or be kind to someone. This depends on the person one is dealing with. For example, if someone is not being nice to me, outside of war, I am free to be kind or unkind to them as I wish according to the circumstances.
      So when you claimed that the Quran contained..
      "very clearly, verses that command the Muslims to be good and just to the disbelievers"
      ...you were making it up? Or had you just accepted the party line and not really thought about what that verse actually meant? Don't worry, many would-be Muslim apologists make the same kind ofschoolboy error.
      (Top Tip - don't assume that anything you read on the internet is true until you have cross-checked it against multiple, independent sources)
      Offline

      16
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by humblelearner)
      One of the verses that advises Muslims to overlook is:

      Qur'aan 5:2

      God says:

      And do not let the hatred of a people for having obstructed you from The Sacred Mosque lead you to transgress...
      Whoah! Talk about "out of context"!

      That ayah refers to one particular incident that took place in 628CE.
      You already made the claim that such verses do not apply universally.
      Offline

      13
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by Onde)
      "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg

      "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them." - qur'an 8:12
      I presume not in that order. Bit pointless taking the fingertip if you've already cut off their head.
     
     
     
  1. See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  2. Poll
    Did TEF Bronze Award affect your UCAS choices?
    Useful resources
  3. See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  4. The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.