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Saving Labour - A decent shadow cabinet Watch

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    I personally don't think that any cabinet change will make the difference but it would be an improvement. Woodcock, Miliband, Starmer, Chucka and Kinnock should all be in there.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I personally don't think that any cabinet change will make the difference but it would be an improvement. Woodcock, Miliband, Starmer, Chucka and Kinnock should all be in there.
    and Cruddas
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    Considering they're almost at the point of advertising in lonely hearts to fill up places I think any change would be an improvement.
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    Labour is screwed. No-one is talented enough to save it. Give up, lefties.
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    You seem to have forgot John "lynch the *******" McDonnell and Diane "Jamaican mums are better than whites" Abbott, the two lynchpins of any labour government!
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Just been talking to some labour friends of mine who are unsurprisingly highly glum about the current state of the Labour Party and interestingly they are all people who twice voted for Corbyn. Although there is no simple cure taking back Scotland, draining the party of the hard left and blairite factions as well as including some advocates of brexit might be a step in the right direction.

    I think Labour could seriously be competive and perhaps win in 2020 with the following:

    Dan Jarvis Leader
    Clive Lewis Chancellor
    John Mann deputy
    Frank Field Home Sec
    Tom Watson Business Secretary
    Liz Kendall Foreign Secretary
    First Secretary Alison McGovern
    Work and pension Anna Turley
    Education Mary Creagh
    Health Stella Creasy
    Transport Michael Dugher
    Defence Gisela Stuart
    Nice one. I like your line-up, though Clive Lewis is not up to being chancellor. And who is Justice Minister / Lord Chancellor? I'd say Sir Keir Starmer would be good in that position.

    Corbyn is a complete mess, it's good that his followers are finally starting to realise how ineffectual and incompetent he is, though the more extreme ones are basically barnacles on the Good Ship Corbyn and will go down with it when it sinks. I was called a "Blairite Red Tory traitor scum" on Twitter today for pointing out just how poorly Corbyn compared to the Australian Labor leader of the 1990s, Paul Keating; see video below of him tearing apart the Australian Liberal (conservative) leader.

    If only we had an aggressive, witty, centrist social democratic leader like that, Labour could tear the Tories to shreds. To shreds I tell ye!



    Bornblue
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    Labour are ****ed until these endless "debates" about Brexit and immigrants are finally resolved (not that I expect that anytime soon).
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Labour are ****ed until these endless "debates" about Brexit and immigrants are finally resolved (not that I expect that anytime soon).
    I was hoping the vote to leave would put it all behind us when it happened.

    "Alright you horrible immigrant hating oiks, we have left now so you can start voting labour again"

    How wrong I was -___-

    The problem is that is is largely a myth. Immigration is just this ghost the right can use to hit anyone sensible with. It doesn't matter what the objective reality is. Is the NHS crumbling due to lack of funding? Doesn't matter. Just blame foreign nurses. Everyone votes for thatcherites. It will never go away.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    I was hoping the vote to leave would put it all behind us when it happened.

    "Alright you horrible immigrant hating oiks, we have left now so you can start voting labour again"

    How wrong I was -___-

    The problem is that is is largely a myth. Immigration is just this ghost the right can use to hit anyone sensible with.
    Exactly. The people who complain about immigrants the most are those who have the least interaction with any. The people who most claim to be worried about immigrants stealing jobs are retired people with no job to worry about. As such, there's little any government can do besides try to look and talk tough.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    I was hoping the vote to leave would put it all behind us when it happened.

    "Alright you horrible immigrant hating oiks, we have left now so you can start voting labour again"

    How wrong I was -___-

    The problem is that is is largely a myth. Immigration is just this ghost the right can use to hit anyone sensible with. It doesn't matter what the objective reality is. Is the NHS crumbling due to lack of funding? Doesn't matter. Just blame foreign nurses. Everyone votes for thatcherites. It will never go away.
    To be honest, I could see the same thing happening again.

    Labour will get a young charismatic leader (eventually) who will lurch the party to the right (though this time more on social than economic issues). People will eventually get bored of the tories.


    It's obvious that the only way Labour can win is by lurching to the right. Our culture and country is just inherently conservative sadly.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    To be honest, I could see the same thing happening again.

    Labour will get a young charismatic leader (eventually) who will lurch the party to the right (though this time more on social than economic issues). People will eventually get bored of the tories.


    It's obvious that the only way Labour can win is by lurching to the right. Out culture and country is just inherently conservative sadly.
    There isn't even any point. They can just continue with PFI with steroids and just be got rid of the NHS.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Exactly. The people who complain about immigrants the most are those who have the least interaction with any. The people who most claim to be worried about immigrants stealing jobs are retired people with no job to worry about. As such, there's little any government can do besides try to look and talk tough.
    communism is doomed
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    To be honest, I could see the same thing happening again.

    Labour will get a young charismatic leader (eventually) who will lurch the party to the right (though this time more on social than economic issues). People will eventually get bored of the tories.

    It's obvious that the only way Labour can win is by lurching to the right. Our culture and country is just inherently conservative sadly.
    A Blair with a bit of anti-immigrant and anti-welfare rhetoric would be streaks ahead.

    The country as a whole for me wants a soft/kind Tory basically who is a bit socially conservative (let's say +3, +3).
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    A Blair with a bit of anti-immigrant and anti-welfare rhetoric would be streaks ahead.

    The country as a whole for me wants a soft/kind Tory basically who is a bit socially conservative (let's say +3, +3).
    I think even Miliband with anti immigrant + anti welfare would have a chance.

    The question from Labour's perspective though is that do they try and push through a more left wing agenda or do they all they can really hope for is to be a centrist/centre-right government that pushed through a handful of left wing policies?
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    I think even Miliband with anti immigrant + anti welfare would have a chance.

    The question from Labour's perspective though is that do they try and push through a more left wing agenda or do they all they can really hope for is to be a centrist/centre-right government that pushed through a handful of left wing policies?
    Well in terms of rhetoric its worth saying that May is close to the optimum (though what she will do remains to be seen) so i'm not sure there's space at the moment, Corbyn has basically allowed the Tory army to lurch into the middle of the battlefield and trap you.

    Well the problem for people on the left is you have always been greedy and short termist in your politics. If you were smart you'd get elected with Blair 2.0 and then agree that in exchange for supporting him, he'd leave after two terms at which point you put Corbyn 2.0 on the ballot. Not only did you waste the opportunity with Brown but now the left is too bothered about purity to have a chance.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Well in terms of rhetoric its worth saying that May is close to the optimum (though what she will do remains to be seen) so i'm not sure there's space at the moment, Corbyn has basically allowed the Tory army to lurch into the middle of the battlefield and trap you.

    Well the problem for people on the left is you have always been greedy and short termist in your politics. If you were smart you'd get elected with Blair 2.0 and then agree that in exchange for supporting him, he'd leave after two terms at which point you put Corbyn 2.0 on the ballot. Not only did you waste the opportunity with Brown but now the left is too bothered about purity to have a chance.
    Economically May's rhetoric has been Miliband but her actions have been Cameron.

    I also doubt that immigration is going to fall massively even once we leave the EU.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Economically May's rhetoric has been Miliband but her actions have been Cameron.

    I also doubt that immigration is going to fall massively even once we leave the EU.
    When it comes to immigration and government spending what the masses must never know is that when a government does not do x or y, it's not because we can't afford or can't do it but rather because government chooses not to.

    Hopefully we can at least cull the refugee and family part of immigration which accounts for about 80,000. Getting rid of students from the figures would not be a bad idea too.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    When it comes to immigration and government spending what the masses must never know is that when a government does not do x or y, it's not because we can't afford or can't do it but rather because government chooses not to.

    Hopefully we can at least cull the refugee and family part of immigration which accounts for about 80,000. Getting rid of students from the figures would not be a bad idea too.
    Indeed. Rudd's suggestion to limit international students was one of the most stupid I've heard.

    International students pay higher fees to universities and tend to be quite wealthy.
 
 
 
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