Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    FYI evolution doesn't have anything to do with whether there is a god or not. This is just a distraction made up by people who refuse to accept that they actually know nothing at all about who or what God is, if they even exist at all.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by javedkid123)
    One day I was praying. Behind me the Imam was teaching 5-10 children that homosexual people were to disgusting and should be killed. And somewhere deep down inside my heart, I knew it wasn't right.
    (Original post by javedkid123)
    My parents are not at all Religious. Me and my brother are salafi. Well, I was a salafi.
    To be honest with you, most Muslims that leave the religion do so because of culture. I'm a Muslim but I understand Indo-Pak, Middle Eastern culture is a big factor in which people leave.

    Them cultures are honestly backwards and have no place in the 21st century. Example: Women being banned from driving in Saudi Arabia.

    **** sake, in the Prophet's (SAW) time - he was fighting AGAINST the Arabs (Qureish tribe). He wanted to SEPARATE religion from culture. The Middle East/Indo-Pak continent is all corrupt. They use Islam for their own political reasons. Dirty bunch



    + Oh and OP mentioned he was a salafi/wahhabi. That 'form' of Islam is essentially an ultra-conservative and strict interpretation of Islam. Originates in Saudi Arabia and Wahhabism is the roots of ISIS....
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    I don't think Muhammed was even slightly interested in separating Islam from culture. The Islamic empire was all about conquest and bringing as many people under the ummah as possible. I have no doubt he would've extended the empire until it covered the entire earth if he could have.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by coldplasma)
    I don't think Muhammed was even slightly interested in separating Islam from culture. The Islamic empire was all about conquest and bringing as many people under the ummah as possible. I have no doubt he would've extended the empire until it covered the entire earth if he could have.
    Yet the Quran says there is no compulsion in religion. Muhammad couldn't even get his Uncle Abu Taleb to become a Muslim - his uncle who had protected him for most of his life.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sbscx28)
    Yet the Quran says there is no compulsion in religion. Muhammad couldn't even get his Uncle Abu Taleb to become a Muslim - his uncle who had protected him for most of his life.
    Compulsion is implied (not really even implied) due to the view of apostates. (among other things, ofc)
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sbscx28)
    Yet the Quran says there is no compulsion in religion. Muhammad couldn't even get his Uncle Abu Taleb to become a Muslim - his uncle who had protected him for most of his life.
    Yet people living under the empire who were not Muslim were forced to pay jizya. No compulsion, sure.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by coldplasma)
    Yet people living under the empire who were not Muslim were forced to pay jizra. No compulsion, sure.
    Yeah but Zakah.. is one of the pillars of Islam. Muslims paid a tax too. Taxation is everywhere in the world nowadays anyway.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by _gcx)
    Compulsion is implied (not really even implied) due to the view of apostates. (among other things, ofc)
    Fully disagree with the interpretation of the apostates death penalty:

    1) It is not mentioned in the Quran. Every major sin is mentioned there: alcohol, adultery etc.

    2) For those who argue the Prophet commanded it, you have to understand the state of Medina at that time. People would convert to Islam in order to gain political knowledge, and then leave the religion. They were known as the hypocrites. It's almost like treason.

    There were also a few Muslims who left Islam before, yet the Prophet did not impose any penalty on them
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sbscx28)
    Yeah but Zakah.. is one of the pillars of Islam. Muslims paid a tax too. Taxation is everywhere in the world nowadays anyway.
    I'm sorry but what does this have to do with being taxed related to your religion? You don't see USA or UK or EU taxing Muslim extra because they won't submit to Christianity? The jizya is explicitly in the Quran, so you cannot say there is no compulsion in the religion when the religion explicitly punishes people for not submitting to that religion.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by coldplasma)
    I'm sorry but what does this have to do with being taxed related to your religion? You don't see USA or UK or EU taxing Muslim extra because they won't submit to Christianity? The jizya is explicitly in the Quran, so you cannot say there is no compulsion in the religion when the religion explicitly punishes people for not submitting to that religion.
    USA/UK/EU is secular and democratic while in the Middle East, religion is not separated from the government. And when I say compulsion in religion, it's referring to the fact that you can't force anybody to pray for example. Or believe.
    OP left Islam for his own reasons, and as Muslims - we shouldn't be allowed to judge him etc as that is between him and God
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sbscx28)
    USA/UK/EU is secular and democratic while in the Middle East, religion is not separated from the government. And when I say compulsion in religion, it's referring to the fact that you can't force anybody to pray for example. Or believe.
    OP left Islam for his own reasons, and as Muslims - we shouldn't be allowed to judge him etc as that is between him and God
    Yes you can force them if you say "you can live under Islamic government, but we're going to tax you much more and make you poor if you do not submit to Islam". If Islam truly does not have any motivation to force people into the religion, then why is jizya in the Quran at all? I don't see any explanation for this other than to make life difficult for non Muslims.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by coldplasma)
    Yes you can force them if you say "you can live under Islamic government, but we're going to tax you much more and make you poor if you do not submit to Islam". If Islam truly does not have any motivation to force people into the religion, then why is jizya in the Quran at all? I don't see any explanation for this other than to make life difficult for non Muslims.
    Now I'm not sure whether you are an atheist or Christian but there were similar taxes in Christian nations... Do you want me to elaborate?
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sbscx28)
    Now I'm not sure whether you are an atheist or Christian but there were similar taxes in Christian nations... Do you want me to elaborate?
    Maybe there were, but the difference is the jizya is the Literal Word of God. The Bible is not god's word. If you can find me another religion which explicitly discriminates against people of other religions then I will happily concede that that religion is also discriminatory, but that does not change the fact that you are trying to avoid addressing my original point which is that Islam, by Allah's own admission, aims to force people under it's government into submitting to the religion.

    As for what I believe in, not that it matters at all for the purposes of this argument, I'm not an atheist, but I also have no religion.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by coldplasma)
    Maybe there were, but the difference is the jizya is the Literal Word of God. The Bible is not god's word. If you can find me another religion which explicitly discriminates against people of other religions then I will happily concede that they religion is also discriminatory, but they does not change the fact that you are trying to avoid addressing my original point which is that Islam, by Allah's own admission, aims to force people under it's government into submitting to the religion.

    As for what I believe in, not that it matters at all for the purposes of this argument, I'm not an atheist, but I also have no religion.
    Wait wait wait the Bible is not God's word?

    And man I'm not here to argue with you or anything, nobody needs to concede anything. But there are many rightful reasons as to why God put the jizya tax into the Quran - yet I'm not qualified enough to fully understand it and explain it all accurately
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sbscx28)
    Wait wait wait the Bible is not God's word?

    And man I'm not here to argue with you or anything, nobody needs to concede anything. But there are many rightful reasons as to why God put the jizya tax into the Quran - yet I'm not qualified enough to fully understand it and explain it all accurately
    That is correct. The Bible IS NOT god's word. Hence the sentences "This is the gospel ACCORDING to ...". The Bible is closer to the hadith in it's authority than it is the Quran, and as I'm sure you know, not all hadith are born equal.
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by javedkid123)
    What started the process of evolution.
    Evolution is so fascinating.

    Not to be rude, but did you not do Biology at school? I can explain it if you want.

    Oh, and you don't have to be an atheist to "believe" in evolution.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Cherub012)
    Don't join the trend and become an Atheist man. It's a ****ing disease!

    (No offence atheists.)



    Pretty sure the Shiekh on IslamQA believes in killing gays. Though I understand the discrepancy within the community.

    Sure calling muslims a disease will get you reported but athiests are fine to call diseases
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    Sure calling muslims a disease will get you reported but athiests are fine to call diseases
    My mistake. I meant to say "Atheism is a ****ing disease".

    Offline

    7
    ReputationRep:
    Just because one Imam was teaching kids that homosexuals should be killed doesn't mean he represents all muslims. I mean, there are gay mosques on some parts of the Earth for god's sake. That is his own opinion. Nowhere in Islam does it say to 'kill' homosexuals. I simply tells you not to be homosexual. You said you left because you knew 'it' wasn't right, equating the whole of Islam to this one man's beliefs, as though he represents the whole religion. But everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, so I wish you all the best.
    Offline

    7
    ReputationRep:
    Just to let ya'll know, nowhere does it say to 'kill all non-believers' in Islam. It is just common sense. Why would God create the Earth, Islam and Non-Muslims and then tell the Muslims he wants all the Non-Muslims dead. He could have simply not made them in the first place. You are not allowed to force someone into Islam. They must truly believe it in their heart and actually believe in God. If you force someone to become a muslim and they say 'yes', do you really think they are a muslim now?
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: July 11, 2017
Poll
Who is your favourite TV detective?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.