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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    As Zam has said, the law of the land would apply. And certainly islam does not believe in or allow mob rule so no one can take the law into their hand. And certainly no one has the authority to take the law into their hand.
    Apologies I meant to say ruler/judge
    Whose authority did Muhammad get before taking the law into his own hands?
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    (Original post by guided1)
    Whose authority did Muhammad get before taking the law into his own hands?
    He signed the treaty of Medinah with the various tribes which gave him legal leadership over whatever the treaty permitted, and by consensus of the Muslims who believed he was the Prophet of God they let him lead them.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    He signed the treaty of Medinah with the various tribes which gave him legal leadership over whatever the treaty permitted, and by consensus of the Muslims who believed he was the Prophet of God they let him lead them.
    So if you get the support of local people you can use Islamic laws and Islamic punishments. Like ISIS do.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    He signed the treaty of Medinah with the various tribes which gave him legal leadership over whatever the treaty permitted, and by consensus of the Muslims who believed he was the Prophet of God they let him lead them.
    What about when he first began preaching in Mecca? Don't think he was given permission.
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    (Original post by guided1)
    So if you get the support of local people you can use Islamic laws and Islamic punishments. Like ISIS do.
    Do ISIS have Ijmah to lead the Muslims? No. Do they have the knowledge and infrustructure to apply punishments and laws properly? No.
    Did the Prophet (SAW) have these things? Yes.

    You have misguided yourself and should learn more.

    (Original post by Cherub012)
    What about when he first began preaching in Mecca? Don't think he was given permission.
    If you knew much about Islamic history, you would know that laws were revealed during the Medinese period, not the Meccan period, so your question is redundent based upon the incorrect assumption that he placed laws over the Muslims when there were no laws.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Do ISIS have Ijmah to lead the Muslims? No. Do they have the knowledge and infrustructure to apply punishments and laws properly? No.
    Did the Prophet (SAW) have these things? Yes.

    You have misguided yourself and should learn more.



    If you knew much about Islamic history, you would know that laws were revealed during the Medinese period, not the Meccan period, so your question is redundent based upon the incorrect assumption that he placed laws over the Muslims when there were no laws.
    OK, didn't have to be so condescending though.
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    (Original post by Cherub012)
    OK, didn't have to be so condescending though.
    My apologies (no sarcasm implied) - I am too used to people attacking Islam with incorrect knowledge, so I get slightly abrasive to people when there is a thread full it
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    My apologies (no sarcasm implied) - I am too used to people attacking Islam with incorrect knowledge, so I get slightly abrasive to people when there is a thread full it
    Nw.
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    (Original post by guided1)
    Whose authority did Muhammad get before taking the law into his own hands?
    He became their elected leader and the tribes of Madina pledged allegiance to him
    twice and confirmed it a third time with the constitution of Madina along with all the non muslim tribes who were in Madina
    فانصرفوا راجعين إلى بلادهم ، فلما قدموا على قومهم ذكروا لهم ما جرى بينهم وبين النبي صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم ودعوهم إلى الإسلام حتى فشا بينهم ، ولم يبق دار من دور الأنصار إلا وفيه ذِكرٌ لرسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم
    And (after the first pledge of allegiance) they returned to their lands and called their people to islam and spoke of mohamed till it spread among them.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Do ISIS have Ijmah to lead the Muslims? No.
    Did Muhammad have ijmah? No. This is where I have problems. It is like one rule here another rule there. Its like when Muhammad was allowed to fight people who wanted to oppres him but the pagans werent allowed to fight people who wanted to oppres them.
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    (Original post by guided1)
    Did Muhammad have ijmah? No. This is where I have problems. It is like one rule here another rule there. Its like when Muhammad was allowed to fight people who wanted to oppres him but the pagans werent allowed to fight people who wanted to oppres them.
    The prophet did have ijma'a/overal majority.
    In these days it would be called a landslide victory.
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    (Original post by emerald7770)
    I'm sorry but do you want a certificate of achievement? This isn't news
    Except people within your (presumably given the general age demographic of a site like this) lifetime have been murdered in the UK for leaving the religion or for even living a 'Westernised lifestyle'.
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    (Original post by javedkid123)
    The concepts of Tawheed (Monotheism), Predetermination ( Qadr ), and the possibility of "an unseen" existance predates Islam. These concepts are not exclusive to Islam alone.



    If I had no feeling/ thoughts, what difference does it make ?



    Never heard of Khawaja Muhammad so I would never read it.

    Explain further what exactly the role of Allah is and His Angels with respect to your position in the world because I fail to understand how you can believe in this aspect and disregard everything else. It looks like an incomplete picture to me. Without any of the guidance from Allah sent to his prophet or maintained through scriptures, without any means of transmission of a message, how were we humans expected to believe in Allah in the first place? Only few would believe in the unseen, others would make things up, as was done in the past so they had some substance that they could see, i.e. their 'evidence' of something to worship, otherwise known as utter fallacy.

    I wanted to know what you thought out of sheer curiosity. So many who aren't even Muslim are in awe of the adhan (from personal experience) but I guess, I'm not surprised that you didn't feel or think anything upon hearing it, your heart is hardened.

    The last sentence is funny. I wasn't aware that all pious or intellectual people were known. I didn't know who he was either, and to be fair I still don't know. I judged him based on his words. Nevertheless, I just wanted to know about your thoughts on death. Do you think an Angel will come down to take your soul? What exactly do you think about death and your position after death?

    I can only impart my opinions and offer to hear yours. RasoolAllah could not save Abu Taleb, nor could he save his own mother or father (according to some scholarly consensus), Umm Habiba could not save Ibn Jahsh, I therefore accept that there isn't much at all a person can do for another, except to reiterate the one true message in hope that the misguided one finds a path.
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    Good for you, OP. Believing in a hate-filled, backward ideology serves no purpose.
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    (Original post by Bellex)
    So many who aren't even Muslim are in awe of the adhan (from personal experience) but I guess, I'm not surprised that you didn't feel or think anything upon hearing it, your heart is hardened.
    Why does someone not feeling awe at the adhan mean their heat is hardened? People like different things music-wise and just because it appeals to you, doesn't mean it will appeal to everyone. I personally find the adhan very unpleasant and annoying.
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    [QUOTE=Plantagenet Crown;70563082]
    (Original post by Bellex)
    So many who aren't even Muslim are in awe of the adhan (from personal experience) but I guess, I'm not surprised that you didn't feel or think anything upon hearing it, your heart is hardened.
    /QUOTE]

    Why does someone not feeling awe at the adhan mean their heat is hardened? People like different things music-wise and just because it appeals to you, doesn't mean it will appeal to everyone. I personally find the adhan very unpleasant and annoying.
    I don't recall him saying he didn't like it, he said he didn't feel or think anything upon hearing it. When a person does not love something with respect to Islam (or anything else) it means they have not softened towards it, therefore, their heart is hardened against it. This is probably twice as true when you go from loving it to not loving it or having a lack of love for it- your heart becomes hardened against it. I am unable to see how this is offensive. If I stopped loving my family and someone came along and said "your heart is hardened", that wouldn't be offensive, it would be factual, my heart would no longer be soft towards my family.

    I'm sorry but if you don't like the adhan I'll just have to presume you have a) a bad taste b) a liking for any uncivilised sound. You don't have to feel bad about that, it's only one opinion.
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    (Original post by Bellex)

    I don't recall him saying he didn't like it, he said he didn't feel or think anything upon hearing it. When a person does not love something with respect to Islam (or anything else) it means they have not softened towards it, therefore, their heart is hardened against it. This is probably twice as true when you go from loving it to not loving it or having a lack of love for it- your heart becomes hardened against it. I am unable to see how this is offensive. If I stopped loving my family and someone came along and said "your heart is hardened", that wouldn't be offensive, it would be factual, my heart would no longer be soft towards my family.

    I'm sorry but if you don't like the adhan I'll just have to presume you have a) a bad taste b) a liking for any uncivilised sound. You don't have to feel bad about that, it's only one opinion.
    Again, not true. Not liking something doesn't mean your heart has hardened against it at all. Adhan is just someone singing badly who sounds like a strangled cat. I'd say anyone who does like it has bad taste and enjoys uncivilised sounds. Furthermore, if someone liked a certain music when they were religious, I don't see how becoming irreligious would suddenly make you change your opinion. You attitude toward what it represents could certainly change, but it's hard to see how your like or dislike of the melody would.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Again, not true. Not liking something doesn't mean your heart has hardened against it at all. Adhan is just someone singing badly who sounds like a strangled cat. I'd say anyone who does like it has bad taste and enjoys uncivilised sounds. Furthermore, if someone liked a certain music when they were religious, I don't see how becoming irreligious would suddenly make you change your opinion. You attitude toward what it represents could certainly change, but it's hard to see how your like or dislike of the melody would.
    Notice, once again, that I did not state whether the OP liked the melody or the words, I asked what their opinion of it was, which is inclusive of both the melody and the meaning. The adhan isn't a random bunch of words stringed together with an instrumental background, the adhan has meaning. When a person says they enjoyed the adhan, they could be talking about its melody or its meaning. As a Muslim, in most cases, you would be talking about the meaning as it is the words that hold the weight of its worth. Now, if you say you feel nothing upon hearing it after being a believer, your heart is hardened against it, as you are no longer impacted by the message it brings- especially, especially if you have transitioned from believing in its words to not believing in them. It isn't a simple preference of tune, now that sounds ridiculous. Your heart is unlikely to be hardened against a tune (unless maybe, if it bought back ominous memories etc.) but it can be hardened against a statement, in this case, if you began to have a lack of belief against it.

    My goodness, did I really just have to explain why the OP has a hardened heart against the meaning and not the melody?
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    (Original post by Bellex)
    Notice, once again, that I did not state whether the OP liked the melody or the words, I asked what their opinion of it was, which is inclusive of both the melody and the meaning. The adhan isn't a random bunch of words stringed together with an instrumental background, the adhan has meaning. When a person says they enjoyed the adhan, they could be talking about its melody or its meaning. As a Muslim, in most cases, you would be talking about the meaning as it is the words that hold the weight of its worth. Now, if you say you feel nothing upon hearing it after being a believer, your heart is hardened against it, as you are no longer impacted by the message it brings- especially, especially if you have transitioned from believing in its words to not believing in them. It isn't a simple preference of tune, now that sounds ridiculous. Your heart is unlikely to be hardened against a tune (unless maybe, if it bought back ominous memories etc.) but it can be hardened against a statement, in this case, if you began to have a lack of belief against it.

    My goodness, did I really just have to explain why the OP has a hardened heart against the meaning and not the melody?
    Yet this makes the implicit assumption that all believers naturally like the adhan, which on balance of probability, cannot be true. Muslims are individuals, not robots, and thus some will like it and others won't.
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    Someone award this guy with a nobel peace price. NGAF
 
 
 
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