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    (Original post by Psychedeliyaa)
    What religion were you infected with and how do you deal with it?
    This is where I have to stop taking you seriously I'm afraid.

    (Original post by Psychedeliyaa)
    And how do I guide my little sister from henceforth?
    You don't, it'll be her decision to make and you should be neutral. Just tell her about the religion without bias - what it's about and some pros and cons - and let her choose from that. If you can't do that, don't get involved.
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    (Original post by emerald7770)
    People did the killings but Islam does not encourage that. Where does it say that women should be abused? Women are praised a lot in the Quran, don't know what you're on about love
    Ok direct verses from the Qur'an that I read to my 9 year old sister this week:

    4:34 Husbands should take full care of their wives, with [the bounties] God has given to some more than others and with what they spend out of their own money. Righteous wives are devout and guard what God would have them guard in the husbands’ absence. If you fear high-handedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great."

    Even if apologists like you try to sugar coat it, there is no denying it.
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    (Original post by ChargingStag)
    This is where I have to stop taking you seriously I'm afraid.
    Okay I'll edit my post.


    You don't, it'll be her decision to make and you should be neutral. Just tell her about the religion without bias - what it's about and some pros and cons - and let her choose from that. If you can't do that, don't get involved.
    I did I presented her the facts, then after she she told me how she felt, I gave her my opinions.
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    (Original post by emerald7770)
    And where did you get the translation??
    The Qur'an in Arabic is actually a translated version of the original form of arabic in the original Qur'an. You are making terrible points to ignore the reality of the Qur'an. Also, what possible justification does Mohammed have for having sex with a 9 year old?
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    (Original post by emerald7770)
    Yes it does matter
    It's some english translation.... Not that it really matters because it says the same in Arabic; and if it doesn't say the same thing and the translation is completely and totally wrong when why was it sold by a Mosque?
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    (Original post by Jay Caz)
    The Qur'an in Arabic is actually a translated version of the original form of arabic in the original Qur'an. You are making terrible points to ignore the reality of the Qur'an. Also, what possible justification does Mohammed have for having sex with a 9 year old?
    You all have different ages, lol. He waited until she was a lot older and then they married. Prophet Mohammed did not accept it until she got older
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    I have nothing wrong with this person convincing her young sister to leave an archaic religion in which from her birth she had been indoctrinated into. The whole idea of teaching someone religion from birth instead of say, waiting until they are a teenager, is not because of love. It's because of the fear that they will be too intelligent by that point to really believe a book with horrible messages and no evidence to back it up whatsoever.

    There are a plethora of despicable verses in the Qur'an which preach violence based on irrational things, such as death for homosexuality.
    You also have death for apostasy, a rule purely designed to keep someone in the doctrine. If you are possibly a fan of women's rights (Which I would hope you are) then I find it perplexing that you could possibly stand behind Islam, unless you are defending its right to simply exist which I would have to agree with.

    There are so many ways to attack Islam, and so many ways to ignore it but eventually you must look at the reality of Islam. And for that I couldn't possibly condemn this person for helping his younger sister out of this barbaric religion.

    (Posts like this always make me look like some right wing fascist, I am actually left wing, which is exactly why I am opposed to such a right wing ideology like Islam.
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    It's some english translation.... Not that it really matters because it says the same in Arabic; and if it doesn't say the same thing and the translation is completely and totally wrong when why was it sold by a Mosque?
    Exactly. And if God is the keeper of Qur'ans and ultimate lover of muslims, then why would he give out fake qura'ns? To hate people? It's ridiculous.
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    (Original post by Jay Caz)
    x
    Best read
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    (Original post by Jay Caz)
    I have nothing wrong with person convincing her young sister to leave an archaic religion in which from her birth she had been indoctrinated into. The whole idea of teaching someone religion from birth instead of say, waiting until they are a teenager, is not because of love. It's because of the fear that they will be too intelligent by that point to really believe a book with horrible messages and no evidence to back it up whatsoever.

    There are a plethora of despicable verses in the Qur'an which preach violence based on irrational things, such as death for homosexuality.
    You also have death for apostasy, a rule purely designed to keep someone in the doctrine. If you are possibly a fan of women's rights (Which I would hope you are) then I find it perplexing that you could possibly stand behind Islam, unless you are defending its right to simply exist which I would have to agree with.

    There are so many ways to attack Islam, and so many ways to ignore it but eventually you must look at the reality of Islam. And for that I couldn't possibly condemn this person for helping his younger sister out of this barbaric religion.

    (Posts like this always make me look like some right wing fascist, I am actually left wing, which is exactly why I am opposed to such a right wing ideology like Islam.
    Thank you. You are an intelligent person and should spread you knowledge. Islam is a religion that forces a person to not live the lives to their most intelligent, I am glad too that my little sister does not have to spend her teenage years fearing every "sin" she commits. Her later life even.
    Lol. What made you think right wings were fascists? I'd say they're terrible, but I can't see any reason they're fascists. Islam is definitely a fascist ideology, and unfortunately I see from looking around me a lot of people that what were once free thinking left wing liberals support this ideology, nowadays. I'm glad you don't.
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    The Qu'ran does say to kill apostates to the faith, with all due respect to the OP. Now, I hope that their fear is misplaced for her sake, but the fact remains that this is what the Qu'ran teaches and it's an unfortunate reality for some ex-muslims
    Can you reference please?
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    (Original post by emerald7770)
    If your parents were to kill you then it's your parents problem. You're stupid for blaming the whole religion for something your parents would do. What stupid reasons for leaving Islam.
    Well if they ARE devout muslims they do believe that death is a suitable punishment for apostasy - but that's by the by. So they might not literally hack her head off but she's 16, they are well able to kick her out and completely shun her from the family. This isn't something that should be taken lightly, and I think OP is right to wait and hide her beliefs until she is on her own two feet.
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    (Original post by Psychedeliyaa)
    So I've been an undercover atheist for a year now because my parents are strict and conservative Muslims. If I told them I didn't believe in their "God", I will indefinitely have my head slaughtered off. So I'm 16, and living with them as an undercover atheist. And recently, I've told my 9 year old abut Islam and what really is going on because she's mature. And if Muhammed thought Aysha was mature enough to marry at 6, then why not tell my sister what happened to her right? She listened to me, we watched those horrible Islamic cartoons and I read the Qur'an to her and she's decided to not be a Muslim anymore, which is very relieving. Now, how do I guide my little sister from henceforth?
    Get a job. As soon as you start making your own money no one can tell you :dolphin::dolphin::dolphin::dolphin:. They cannot even touch you for leaving Islam.

    I've got very very little faith in me due to what I've gone through and I swear I'm on the verge of leaving Islam. My family found out and they were totally fine with it. They know even if they went through what I did from a very little age they would do the same!

    Stay strong angel. PM if you need to talk I'll listen to you xxx ❤️❤️


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    I would first like to thank you, OP, for sharing your story with us and I do know that in many families, societies and cultures, freedom of individual belief does not enjoy the status that in most defiantly should. I would like to quote from that “evil, backwards and archaic” Qu’ran, al Baqara 256, “Let there be no compulsion in religion.” I would ask that everyone respect the choice of our friend here, even if you believe she is misguided, it is for her to be misguided and not for you to misguide her through insulting or threatening behaviour. Indeed, I would remind everyone attacking her, “Many of the followers of previous books wish that they could turn you back into disbelievers, but you should pardon and forgive them (2:109).” In other words, even if she insults or offends you, you do not respond in kind.



    I feel mutual respect is necessary for a civilised discussion. Now, OP, you might think me brainless, archaic and sheep like, but that hardly matters. I do disagree with your interpretation of the Qu’ran, the Sunna and Tijamiiya, I am happy to have a discussion about it and don’t worry I have no interest in converting you. I find the claim that Muhammad had a six-year old wife, quite interesting, it peeks my historical bones. The simple truth is we don’t actually know how old Aisha was, it was not mentioned in the Qu’ran (which is the only book Muslims generally consider infallible), while some point to verses in the Hadith (not the Qu’ran) Sayidd Bukhari, but even these cannot be taken at face value. Indeed, given the historical timelines set out by the Qu’ran itself and the fact that Aisha remembers being present at the revealing of ‘The Moon’ chapter of the Qu’ran, which was revealed before the six year of the Call (the Call was the period when the Prophet Muhammad was called upon by God into prophethood), but Khadiji, the Prophet’s first wife, did not pass away until the tenth year of the Call. Aisha and Muhammad did not marry until after Khadiji death. What all of this means is that according to this timeline, Aisha was likely to be 15 and not 6, when she married the Prophet Muhammad.



    Often the age of Aisha was estimated based on historic reports on her behaviour, which is why there are a lot of issues with figuring out her age. What I mean is there would be a report of her playing with dolls and other ‘child-like’ qualities but then there would be other reports indicating her physical and psychological development that would place her well past puberty. Indeed, classical Islamic historian, Ibn Jarir Tabari, wrote, “In the time before Islam, Abu Bakr married two women. The first was Fatila daughter of Abdul Uzza, from Abdullah and Asma were born. There he married Umm Ruman, from whom Abdur Rahman and Aisha were born. These four were born before Islam.” This would mean that Aisha was even older than 15 before she married the Prophet Muhammad, exact age is difficult to discern from this, but we would be talking about somewhere in her 20’s.



    There are quite a few others too who concur with this view (I am talking about Muslim scholars and historians who lived before European colonization). The main trouble is a misunderstanding of the Hadiths, even when the phrase ‘Sahih’ Hadith is used, it does not mean that the account is historically accurate or that Muslims are required to believe they are true events that took place. ‘Sahih’ here does not mean ‘true’ but ‘authenticated’ and what the word authenticated means here is that the lineage of the report has been strongly established. Remember that Bedouin culture was an oral one, not much was written down, which means that when the Hadith were being written down, they had to trace each report back to the originator. This is all Sahih means. There are many errors within the Hadiths and this is not controversial point as it’s widely accepted within scholastic circles. In truth the obsession with Aisha’s age came after European colonization of South Asia and the Middle East. Understanding the colonial discourse is imperative to this discussion.



    I would also challenge your views on apostasy and homosexuality, however, I have taken up quite a bit of this thread already. On a quick note, I do think religious dissent is necessary, I am not who most people think I am and I left the practise of religion (and ideas of religion) of my parents. I don’t want to give the wrong impression about me, which I suspect might arise from this response.



    I do hope sanity prevails and no harm comes to you or your sister. Nobody has the right to tell you what to think or believe. Much love and empowerment to you.
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    The Qu'ran does say to kill apostates to the faith, with all due respect to the OP. Now, I hope that their fear is misplaced for her sake, but the fact remains that this is what the Qu'ran teaches and it's an unfortunate reality for some ex-muslims
    No it doesnt. It explicitly says there is no compulsion in religion.
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    my dad is one :rofl:
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    > Undercover atheist.

    You :dolphin::dolphin::dolphin::dolphin:ing Soviet, what Intel did you get!?
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    I'm an athiest and my family is sikh- they wouldn't chop my head off if i told them at the moment but they would be disappointed and say its just a phase or something. My family doesn't drink but they have told me that when i'm 18 its my own choice - similarly they probably would accept I was an athiest when I am older but at the same time be a bit upset by it.
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    (Original post by Query22)
    No it doesnt. It explicitly says there is no compulsion in religion.
    Read your own holy book, specifically Quran 4:89 and Quran 9:11-12 and stop practicing Taqiyyah
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    Read your own holy book, specifically Quran 4:89 and Quran 9:11-12 and stop practicing Taqiyyah
    I'm a Sunni so I don't believe in Taqqiya. Anyway I will put those verses you referenced in a spoiler.

    Spoiler:
    Show


    They wish that you reject faith, as they have rejected, and thus that you all become equal (like one another). So take not Awliya' from them, till they emigrate in the way of Allah. But if they turn back, take (hold of) them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither Awliya' nor helpers from them. 90. Except those who join a group, between you and whom there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with their breasts restraining from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. Had Allah willed, indeed He would have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So, if they withdraw from you, and fight not against you, and offer you peace, then Allah has made no way for you against them.

    The part in bold explain why they were to be killed. Some people accepted Islam but secretly supported the enemy. These people knew that if they supported Islam, they would not be killed so they can do the dirty work of the enemy and try and create trouble with the Muslims. Read the tafsir of Ibn Kathir - this is where I you can get the context from. If these people are found out, they are given the option to "emigrate" first, if they refused then they are killed.

    But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. (11) And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist. (12)

    The same principle applies here as above so it's self-explanatory. Maybe actually read what you reference? Which ex-muslim do you know has broken a peace-treaty?

    Why not take a look at verse 2:256?

    256. There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the right path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.



 
 
 
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