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Trump stumbles from one disaster to the next Watch

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    (Original post by Cato the Elder)
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    I agree with a lot of what you say about Trump's incompetence, I'd merely point out we all warned you about this. We said he'd be a completely incompetent, pro-Russian debacle and we were right. He's temperamentally unsuited to the office of president.

    I disagree with your analysis about the Democrats chances. Remember Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million. If 100,000 votes shifted across the three rust-belt states, Hillary would have won. Many of those 100,000 votes are people who simply couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hillary, but will have no problem voting for the populist Sander-ite candidate that comes forward next time around.

    The Republicans are screwed, their base is fracturing (and in long-term decline) while the Democratic base is becoming stronger and more coherent. Again and again, when polled, Americans express their preference, on an issue-by-issue basis, for left-wing policies, not Trumpite fascism or GOP corporatism. The outcome of the 2018 midterms is very clear indeed. Trump is going to make George W Bush look like a thoughtful, competent, beloved president by comparison.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    I agree with a lot of what you say about Trump's incompetence, I'd merely point out we all warned you about this. We said he'd be a completely incompetent, pro-Russian debacle and we were right. He's temperamentally unsuited to the office of president.

    I disagree with your analysis about the Democrats chances. Remember Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million. If 100,000 votes shifted across the three rust-belt states, Hillary would have won. Many of those 100,000 votes are people who simply couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hillary, but will have no problem voting for the populist Sander-ite candidate that comes forward next time around.
    And which candidate would that be?

    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    The Republicans are screwed, their base is fracturing (and in long-term decline) while the Democratic base is becoming stronger and more coherent. Again and again, when polled, Americans express their preference, on an issue-by-issue basis, for left-wing policies, not Trumpite fascism or GOP corporatism. The outcome of the 2018 midterms is very clear indeed. Trump is going to make George W Bush look like a thoughtful, competent, beloved president by comparison.
    The Democrats lost because they were fixated on identity politics and hostile towards the white working-class. Not sure if they are in a position to turn that around.
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    (Original post by Cato the Elder)
    The Democrats lost
    That would make more sense if Trump actually won the popular vote. For a minority who won by dint of a system that was originally designed (in addition to balancing states rights) to keep people like Trump out of office to claim somehow that they speak for the people for represent some great silent majority is laughable.

    Not even the entire Republican Party supports Trump, many Republican voters held their nose and voted Trump, and now regret it. The Trump-supporting minority is getting smaller every day.
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    (Original post by Cato the Elder)

    The Democrats lost because they were fixated on identity politics and hostile towards the white working-class. Not sure if they are in a position to turn that around.
    However, their strategy worked but for one thing which was they did not appear authentic to rust belt males. Tim Kaine added nothing to her offer. There were alternative Vice Presidential candidates who were naturally at home drinking beer and talking baseball in a plaid shirt who could call out Trump for the billionaire he is. In 2016 the Democrats forgot the art of balancing the ticket
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    Tbh I dont see disaster so fat, but he is clumsy// accident prone. Tell in 4/8 years whether any of his policies come to anything. Signing executive orders and tweeting is easy.
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    Lol we get it, you don't like him
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    The latest fiasco was not actually listening to Shinzo Abe, because he didn't have his translation ear piece in. He was nodding along pretending he knew Japanese :lol:
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Tbh I dont see disaster so fat, but he is clumsy// accident prone. Tell in 4/8 years whether any of his policies come to anything. Signing executive orders and tweeting is easy.
    Tweeting on his personal account and becoming public of keeping his personal phone after attacking Hilary for using a personal server.

    And just tweeting like that in general. USA has officially become a laughing stock, he is like some African dictator that comes up with random ****.

    The Republicans must be very blind to support this.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    The US has always been divided racially. But Obama's tone was one of unity. He presided over the country as a whole. I have not really heard anything from Trump to suggest that he cares for anyone other than himself. Only this morning, one of his aids was talking in an interview about how the courts should respect the wishes of the President. Since when did a democracy give supreme power to the President over the law? In a dictatorship of course.
    Well said. His contempt for the judiciary is disgusting, and we have reports from his aides that he has been shocked that the president can't simply get his way on everything he wants. He's genuinely completely ignorant about the US constitution, the separation of powers and the rule of law.

    There is a great traditional saying in the Anglo-American legal tradition; "Be ye ever so high, yet the law is above you". Everybody is subject to the law, including the president. He seems to want to rule by decree and fear, but thankfully the Orange Fuhrer is too incompetent to cow his opponents, and the entrenched nature of the rule of law too strong in America to be overcome by this shambolic charlatan.

    But with Trump's attacks on the judges, we can see his mindset very clearly. He's of such low intelligence that he doesn't understand that judges rule according to the law; we don't appoint judges so that they can just decide each case according to whatever they feel like. That is a foreign concept to Trump; he can't imagine someone applying (as far as is possible) objective concepts of reason and analysis, and attempting to stay neutral and unbiased.

    Trump is a complete break with the conservative tradition in the English-speaking world. In the Anglo-American civilisation, it has been the case since the 1680s that the conservative "establishment" viewed the rule of law as being in their best interests, that it was in their interests that everyone was subject to a broadly unbiased, neutral court system with powers to restrain the mightiest subjects. Of course it was in their interests (such a system protects their property rights), but it is also a more sophisticated conception of self-interest in that the current crop of leaders didn't say (as you see in banana republics), "Excellent, now we control the government lets just start killing our opponents and taking their property". So the rule of law supports the status quo, but it also benefits everyone; having the procedural fairness afforded by the rule of law is itself a form of substantive fairness. Being forced to adhere to certain processes, certain standards, is a restraining influence on the executive. And respect for the rule of law necessarily means not engaging in judge-baiting and demagogery against the judges, attempting to intimidate them, when they make a decision with which you disagree.

    Trump made very clear from before the election (I wrote on the subject) that he had none of this traditional conservative Anglo-American respect for the rule of law. He's basically just a thuggish New York wheeler-dealer. I wrote before the election that Trump was the greatest danger we've seen in the Anglosphere since 1688 (when James II was overthrown in the Glorious Revolution) of a head of government / state attempting to bully and cow and intimidate the judicial branch in an attempt to seize all the reins of state power to themselves. Since the election, Trump has confirmed my fears; the only mitigating factor is that he is so blatantly incompetent, corrupt and stupid, that opposition to him grows by the minute. Thank goodness.

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    I actually kind of like him ngl
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    (Original post by Sharif92)
    I actually kind of like him ngl
    Should you really be admitting that? I mean, once something goes on the internet it's out there forever.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Should you really be admitting that? I mean, once something goes on the internet it's out there forever.
    Yeah I have no problem with it really
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Tweeting on his personal account and becoming public of keeping his personal phone after attacking Hilary for using a personal server.

    And just tweeting like that in general. USA has officially become a laughing stock, he is like some African dictator that comes up with random ****.

    The Republicans must be very blind to support this.
    Your point is? the tweeting I think goes down well with voters.. His tantrums and bullying less so, but he doesnt have to appeal to everyone.
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    Wahhh wahhhh but Hilary's emails!!!!!!!!11
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Your point is? the tweeting I think goes down well with voters.. His tantrums and bullying less so, but he doesnt have to appeal to everyone.
    His constant whining on Twitter, his wailing about how someone said something mean about him or how its American companies duty to enrich his family, is completely infra dignitatem. We've never seen such a low-rent president.

    Trump doesn't have to appeal to everyone, but previous presidents have at least tried to live up to the fact they are not merely the head of government but also the head of state, a symbol and representative of the American demos as a whole. These days Trump isn't even supported by everyone who voted for him (many have regrets), let alone by a substantial proportion of the public.

    President Obama left office with approval ratings around 60% (and when he came into office, they were in the low 70s). He was thus not only supported by his own party, but by a broad swathe of independent voters. He could lay a reasonable claim to speaking for the American people, not just in the legal sense as president, but as a leader of the American people in the moral sense.

    Trump can make no such claim. He doesn't even represent the entire Republican Party; he's basically a faction leader for the alt-reich, not a leader of the whole people. He doesn't in any sense seek to be a uniter of peoples.

    You say he doesn't have to appeal to everyone, and he and Bannon thought they could get away with just playing to their base. They're now finding out that being president, when you have little to no political capital, is extremely difficult. Political capital matters. Process matters. Not constantly being at war with the press, every single day, over some new perceived slight, matters. He denigrate the mainstream media, but he seems obsessed with their reportage and he's finding out that attacking and making war on the mainstream media hurts him more than it hurts them (New York Times subscription growth jumped 1000% since the election).

    It's sad that it took the election of Trump to finally get the media to actually do their job of holding him accountable. But now they are doing so, and Trump absolutely hates it. He's going to wildly lash out at everything and everyone, and get more and more unpopular, so he will lash out more and make more of a fool of himself. He's only a few weeks in and already the word "embattled" can be fairly ascribed to his administration. He'll be lucky to get through a full term
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    His constant whining on Twitter, his wailing about how someone said something mean about him or how its American companies duty to enrich his family, is completely infra dignitatem. We've never seen such a low-rent president.

    Trump doesn't have to appeal to everyone, but previous presidents have at least tried to live up to the fact they are not merely the head of government but also the head of state, a symbol and representative of the American demos as a whole. These days Trump isn't even supported by everyone who voted for him (many have regrets), let alone by a substantial proportion of the public.

    President Obama left office with approval ratings around 60% (and when he came into office, they were in the low 70s). He was thus not only supported by his own party, but by a broad swathe of independent voters. He could lay a reasonable claim to speaking for the American people, not just in the legal sense as president, but as a leader of the American people in the moral sense.

    Trump can make no such claim. He doesn't even represent the entire Republican Party; he's basically a faction leader for the alt-reich, not a leader of the whole people. He doesn't in any sense seek to be a uniter of peoples.

    You say he doesn't have to appeal to everyone, and he and Bannon thought they could get away with just playing to their base. They're now finding out that being president, when you have little to no political capital, is extremely difficult. Political capital matters. Process matters. Not constantly being at war with the press, every single day, over some new perceived slight, matters. He denigrate the mainstream media, but he seems obsessed with their reportage and he's finding out that attacking and making war on the mainstream media hurts him more than it hurts them (New York Times subscription growth jumped 1000% since the election).

    It's sad that it took the election of Trump to finally get the media to actually do their job of holding him accountable. But now they are doing so, and Trump absolutely hates it. He's going to wildly lash out at everything and everyone, and get more and more unpopular, so he will lash out more and make more of a fool of himself. He's only a few weeks in and already the word "embattled" can be fairly ascribed to his administration. He'll be lucky to get through a full term
    I think he can get away with focusing on those who elected him. He is going to find it tough going if he is constantly fighting the media because everyone doesnt bow down and scrape like in his business. The key is whether his policies work or not, which only time will tell. Think you are being overdramatic and he will get through one and probably two terms, but that depends on events and results.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    I think he can get away with focusing on those who elected him.
    Except he's already betrayed them, repeatedly, by putting Wall Street bankers and lawyers in charge of financial regulation. He's already betrayed them by appointing his donors to administration positions with a degree of shamelessness probably not seen since President Taft.

    He is going to find it tough going if he is constantly fighting the media because everyone doesnt bow down and scrape like in his business.
    He is already finding it tough going, but he's so lacking in smarts and self-reflective capacity that he doesn't know how to change tack, all he knows how to do is double down, which is fatal.

    Think you are being overdramatic and he will get through one and probably two terms, but that depends on events and results.
    That's utterly implausible. He's struggling three weeks into the job; he's the most unpopular president in decades (in fact, we've never seen a president this unpopular at the beginning of his first term). Ordinarily, after the election the winners approval numbers shoot up, as those who voted for the losing candidate conclude, "It's really not that bad. I might not agree with their politics but they do want what's best for the country. I will give them a fair chance". Trump doesn't even have that; he's so divisive that from day one he is running into intense opposition, and has already become a figure of ridicule.

    To win the next election he would need to grow his base. But it's shrinking; traditional Republicans who held their noses and voted for him are seeing that their concerns were fully justified, and the much smaller proportion who voted for him on populist grounds are largely disappointed as they see just how corrupt he is. He has painted himself into a corner such that he is really only pleasing the alt-reich; that is not a recipe to grow his base, he is shrinking it and this forecloses any plausible possibility of re-election.

    Everything we on the left predicted Trump would be is turning out to be correct. This is why even his own supporters are starting to disown him, embarrassed by his total lack of anything resembling maturity or good judgment. Trump will not get re-elected, and he'll be lucky to last a full-term; the issue that will eventually kill him in congress will probably be the Russia issue, as the true depth of his connections with, and loyalty to, the Kremlin becomes clear. Establishment republicans will milk Trump for every quick policy victory they can get (like repealing financial regulations on Wall Street), and then toss him overboard when his rule becomes untenable; for congressional GOP, President Pence would be a perfectly acceptable outcome. They get Trump to soak up all the opposition, like a tampon, and then throw him out. They may even accrue respect for moving against him, as it will be seen as principled not opportunistic
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    Donald Trump is a c***, period.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Except he's already betrayed them, repeatedly, by putting Wall Street bankers and lawyers in charge of financial regulation. He's already betrayed them by appointing his donors to administration positions with a degree of shamelessness probably not seen since President Taft.



    He is already finding it tough going, but he's so lacking in smarts and self-reflective capacity that he doesn't know how to change tack, all he knows how to do is double down, which is fatal.



    That's utterly implausible. He's struggling three weeks into the job; he's the most unpopular president in decades (in fact, we've never seen a president this unpopular at the beginning of his first term). Ordinarily, after the election the winners approval numbers shoot up, as those who voted for the losing candidate conclude, "It's really not that bad. I might not agree with their politics but they do want what's best for the country. I will give them a fair chance". Trump doesn't even have that; he's so divisive that from day one he is running into intense opposition, and has already become a figure of ridicule.

    To win the next election he would need to grow his base. But it's shrinking; traditional Republicans who held their noses and voted for him are seeing that their concerns were fully justified, and the much smaller proportion who voted for him on populist grounds are largely disappointed as they see just how corrupt he is. He has painted himself into a corner such that he is really only pleasing the alt-reich; that is not a recipe to grow his base, he is shrinking it and this forecloses any plausible possibility of re-election.

    Everything we on the left predicted Trump would be is turning out to be correct. This is why even his own supporters are starting to disown him, embarrassed by his total lack of anything resembling maturity or good judgment. Trump will not get re-elected, and he'll be lucky to last a full-term; the issue that will eventually kill him in congress will probably be the Russia issue, as the true depth of his connections with, and loyalty to, the Kremlin becomes clear.
    1. I dont think they feel betrayed, yet. If anything he si trying to carry out his promises or at least he tweets about them.

    2. Depends what you mean by tough going. he hasnt done anything yet except meet a few people and sign a few documents. he is finding out not everyone is going to bow and scrape.

    3. I will wait to see events and results. At the moment I think he has a good chance of getting in a second time. next election will be absolutely fascinating. he has mae politics more interesting. Will just have to agree to differ.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Your point is? the tweeting I think goes down well with voters.. His tantrums and bullying less so, but he doesnt have to appeal to everyone.
    My point is America is a joke.

    Hated under Bush, a joke under Trump.
 
 
 
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