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Trump stumbles from one disaster to the next watch

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    (Original post by yudothis)
    My point is America is a joke.

    Hated under Bush, a joke under Trump.
    In what sense. Its still either the most powerful or joint most powerful nation on earth. Cant see why that would lead you to conclude it is a joke?
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    In what sense. Its still either the most powerful or joint most powerful nation on earth. Cant see why that would lead you to conclude it is a joke?
    Oh god, "powerful", woooooo.

    I have even more respect for Boris Johnson than 45.
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    Putin has succeeded where generations of former Soviet agents failed - a bloodless takeover of the United States.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Oh god, "powerful", woooooo.

    I have even more respect for Boris Johnson than 45.
    Ahh so its just your personal opinion, but you cant justify why its a joke?

    Power and influence in its many forms tends to be quite important when rating nations. Other countries wont see it as a joke.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Ahh so its just your personal opinion, but you cant justify why its a joke?

    Power and influence in its many forms tends to be quite important when rating nations. Other countries wont see it as a joke.
    Well, I for one am not responsible for all the satire that has popped up.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Well, I for one am not responsible for all the satire that has popped up.
    Still dont see why the USA is a joke?
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)


    Trump made very clear from before the election (I wrote on the subject) that he had none of this traditional conservative Anglo-American respect for the rule of law. He's basically just a thuggish New York wheeler-dealer. I wrote before the election that Trump was the greatest danger we've seen in the Anglosphere since 1688 (when James II was overthrown in the Glorious Revolution) of a head of government / state attempting to bully and cow and intimidate the judicial branch in an attempt to seize all the reins of state power to themselves. Since the election, Trump has confirmed my fears; the only mitigating factor is that he is so blatantly incompetent, corrupt and stupid, that opposition to him grows by the minute. Thank goodness.

    nulli tertius
    I think he will resign, after 18 months to 2 years,

    He will have a poor to non-existent record of achievement; he won't be able to be anywhere, whether in the US or overseas where the public is present, his business will become toxic and he will be completely bound in red tape.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Still dont see why the USA is a joke?
    Ok...what's that got to do with me.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Ok...what's that got to do with me.



    You stated


    (Original post by yudothis)
    My point is America is a joke.

    .
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    You stated
    Again, what does: "Still dont see why the USA is a joke?", have to do with me?
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I think he will resign, after 18 months to 2 years,

    He will have a poor to non-existent record of achievement; he won't be able to be anywhere, whether in the US or overseas where the public is present, his business will become toxic and he will be completely bound in red tape.
    Groping at beauty competitions is going to be off-limits for life, he must be having therapy for that.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Four political landmines have blown up in Trump's face today.

    (1) Kellyanne Conway, Trump's Minister of Propaganda, had to be "counselled" (disciplined) by the White House for saying on television that it is Americans patriotic duty to buy Ivanka Trump's *****y clothing brand, and that the company Nordstrom's decision to stop promoting it (because it was losing money) was a direct political attack on the president. Apparently these days, failing to enrich the president and his disgusting offspring is now treasonous. This is the "draining the swamp" we were promised? Trump voters were so gullible

    (2) After the US Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the temporary restraining order against the Trump "Muslim ban" (or whatever you want to call it), in which the district federal court had made an injunction preventing the ban being implemented while the issue is litigated in federal court, after that ruling Trump tweeted an attack on the judges and said "See you in court" (seemingly not realising he had seen them in court, and lost twice). The White House has now announced that they won't "see them in court" and have decided not to appeal it to the Supreme Court.

    (3) The MI6 dossier that discussed Trump's compromise by Russian intelligence, and the extensive links between the Kremlin and the Russian shills in his campaign, has now been partially verified by US intelligence (http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/10/po...ate/index.html). The FBI and US intelligence is continuing its investigation into links between Trump advisers and Russia, and the general allegations of the dossier. When reached for comment, Spicer said "We continue to be disgusted by CNN's fake news reporting". The Trump administration are like children, they just cry "fake news, fake news" every time they get caught out.

    (4) Michael Flynn, the Russian shill Trump appointed to be National Security Adviser has been exposed as a liar and a Kremlin accomplice. During the presidential transition, he spoke on the phone with the Russian ambassador, and texted each other, repeatedly. When questioned on this, Flynn said they were merely exchanging pleasantries and working out the logistics of a future meeting. It has now been revealed that Flynn actually discussed with the Russian ambassador removing sanctions against them, and he made comments along the lines of, "Don't worry, when we're in the White House we'll fix it for you. Don't concern yourself with these new sanctions by President Obama". In other words, he seems to identify himself more with Russia than the President of the United States at that time.

    I emphasise, all these ****-ups and revelations are just in a single day. The Trump administration is the most incompetent we've ever seen, as it stumbles from one self-created disaster to the next. They're also insanely thin-skinned and obsessed with negative media coverage; if any media organisation reports something they think is negative, they get extremely angry and upset, and start shrieking "fake news" and devoting large amounts of time to it during press briefings. It's almost like they think the 24 hour media cycle is real life, and instead of viewing the media cycle as something periphery, an unpleasant but necessary adjunct to the business of governing, they appear to view the business of governing as an adjunct to fighting media battles. They don't seem to understand the concept of choosing your battles. And thus Trump's approval rating is getting worse and worse; he's already the most unpopular president in decades and this is only a couple of weeks in. I'd give good odds that Trump is impeached or resigns
    I've always been of the opinion that the Trump administration will last about 18 months before self-destructing. I don't think there'll be anything as dramatic as an impeachment. I just think it will be culmination of continued exposures, mini-scandals, 'mis-speaks' and a fundamental erosion of any public confidence in him. The latter will be accelerated once those wild pre-election promises are gradually shown beyond doubt to be entirely undeliverable. The ultimate in over-promising and under-delivering. The Democrats need to use this 18 months to get their **** together so they're ready to present a credible candidate to the electorate when the time comes.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Should you really be admitting that? I mean, once something goes on the internet it's out there forever.
    Whilst I disagree with a lot of what Trump says and does (and think he's a total ****) the only way to shift a significant proportion of opinion away from the Trump mindset is by openly debating his ideas and policies (whatever they might be....he still doesn't know himself) - we can't be encouraging this "secret right wing" mentality, by attacking trump supporters and keeping them quiet. Get their views onto an open platform, and prove why they are wrong.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    His constant whining on Twitter, his wailing about how someone said something mean about him or how its American companies duty to enrich his family, is completely infra dignitatem. We've never seen such a low-rent president.

    Trump doesn't have to appeal to everyone, but previous presidents have at least tried to live up to the fact they are not merely the head of government but also the head of state, a symbol and representative of the American demos as a whole. These days Trump isn't even supported by everyone who voted for him (many have regrets), let alone by a substantial proportion of the public.

    President Obama left office with approval ratings around 60% (and when he came into office, they were in the low 70s). He was thus not only supported by his own party, but by a broad swathe of independent voters. He could lay a reasonable claim to speaking for the American people, not just in the legal sense as president, but as a leader of the American people in the moral sense.

    Trump can make no such claim. He doesn't even represent the entire Republican Party; he's basically a faction leader for the alt-reich, not a leader of the whole people. He doesn't in any sense seek to be a uniter of peoples.
    Exactly. Trump is acting like a typical authoritarian populist, as if he is the organic embodiment of the popular will, and that this gives him a mandate to ride roughshod over norms and procedures. Such a style, while somewhat flying in the face of the spirit of a liberal democratic system, isn't inherently incompatible with being a full democracy - the presidency of Charles De Gaulle in France being perhaps the most prominent example. Even in Latin America, similar recent autocratic populist leaders like Chavez and Fujimori were, for most of their terms, actually popular despite their autocratic style of rule. Trump, by contrast, has probably the least popular legitimacy of any President since the introduction of universal suffrage, yet is still acting like he holds some unique mass mandate.

    A presidential system like that of the US is always somewhat contradictory due to completely combining the heads of state and government. A president has to be both a partisan leader and a non-partisan executor. He has to both protect the constitutional procedure, and get his own political agenda through it. It's inevitable that many presidents use their position to their party's advantage somewhat, but Trump is different. He's using the office not just to push partisan interests, but his own personal interests. And he's not even particularly hiding it or trying to avoid it.
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    (Original post by Reality Check)
    I've always been of the opinion that the Trump administration will last about 18 months before self-destructing. I don't think there'll be anything as dramatic as an impeachment. I just think it will be culmination of continued exposures, mini-scandals, 'mis-speaks' and a fundamental erosion of any public confidence in him. The latter will be accelerated once those wild pre-election promises are gradually shown beyond doubt to be entirely undeliverable. The ultimate in over-promising and under-delivering. The Democrats need to use this 18 months to get their **** together so they're ready to present a credible candidate to the electorate when the time comes.
    I think the most likely outcome is that at some point he'll have an irreparable falling-out with Ryan, McConnell, and other GOP Congressional leaders, at which point they'll grow tired of co-operating with him. Not that they'll start openly opposing him, but they'll increasingly just pursue their own legislative agenda rather than listening to what he wants.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Groping at beauty competitions is going to be off-limits for life, he must be having therapy for that.
    If you were the owner of Miss World or Miss Universe you would normally give your eye teeth for a major politician as a judge. But if Trump asked to be a judge, they would turn him down.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I think he will resign, after 18 months to 2 years,

    He will have a poor to non-existent record of achievement; he won't be able to be anywhere, whether in the US or overseas where the public is present, his business will become toxic and he will be completely bound in red tape.
    Well said. Apparently he doesn't even like being president very much; he enjoys the trappings but otherwise finds it extremely stressful.

    He thought that being president would mean he was the least constrained person in the world, that he could basically do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted. He's finding that, if anything, it's the opposite; he's completely constrained, he can't do what he wants, when he wants to.

    He's finding that when you're president, everything you do affects a thousand other things in unexpected and unpredictable ways, that there are second and third order consequences that mean it's almost like an unsolvable rubic's cube. You just have to muddle through the best you can, constantly under pressure from a million directions. The job is so far beyond what he's capable of, it's not even funny.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Exactly. Trump is acting like a typical authoritarian populist, as if he is the organic embodiment of the popular will, and that this gives him a mandate to ride roughshod over norms and procedures. Such a style, while somewhat flying in the face of the spirit of a liberal democratic system, isn't inherently incompatible with being a full democracy - the presidency of Charles De Gaulle in France being perhaps the most prominent example. Even in Latin America, similar recent autocratic populist leaders like Chavez and Fujimori were, for most of their terms, actually popular despite their autocratic style of rule. Trump, by contrast, has probably the least popular legitimacy of any President since the introduction of universal suffrage, yet is still acting like he holds some unique mass mandate.

    A presidential system like that of the US is always somewhat contradictory due to completely combining the heads of state and government. A president has to be both a partisan leader and a non-partisan executor. He has to both protect the constitutional procedure, and get his own political agenda through it. It's inevitable that many presidents use their position to their party's advantage somewhat, but Trump is different. He's using the office not just to push partisan interests, but his own personal interests. And he's not even particularly hiding it or trying to avoid it.
    This. Very well observed. He's completely shameless, but then he also seems quite wounded when people criticise him for his shameless corruption and incompetence. That's why I think he must have some kind of personality disorder; he doesn't seem to be able to link cause and effect. The cause being his gross and possibly illegal actions, the effect being the public criticism about which he is so sensitive. He doesn't seem able to change his ways to stop doing the things that attract the criticism that clearly upsets him so much.

    In many ways, he has the mental age of a 10 year old.
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    maybe if the democrats didn't allocate hillary trump wouldn't be president.

    the feminists only have themselves to blame.
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    (Original post by Cato the Elder)
    And I was bowled over by Trump's idiotic equivalence between Russia and the USA. "You think we're so innocent?" sounds like a standard Chomskyite, left-wing, anti-American thing to say. America is far from perfect, but it is not Putin's Russia, and Trump, if he were a true patriot, would know this.
    I'd add, on this excellent point, this is something I find extremely concerning. Large swathes of the new alt-right movement are extremely unpatriotic, indeed they basically hate the West and love Russia. They completely buy into the Chomskyite / Corbynite mindset. It's just that they come at it from a different angle.

    The hard left loves Putin because he is basically the inheritor of the proprietary love the bore the Soviet Union, and because they view Russia as the main opposition to the evil "imperialist" West. The alt-right loves Russia because they correctly view him as being an exemplar of the fascist Traditionalism movement, as a reaction against modernity and reason (Bannon's political hero, Julius Evola, felt that society started going downhill when we abandoned the geocentric model of cosmology).

    All these years, I took it for granted that much of the left held nutty foreign policy views. But whilst there was a sane minority faction in the left along with a staunch pro-patriotic conservative right (even though I disagreed with them on economic policy), we were able to maintain a sensible, robust foreign policy. With the rise of the alt-right, and their moral relativism as against the West and Russia, the whole basis for a sane foreign policy comes under threat.
 
 
 
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