Lottery Watch

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fishpaste
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#61
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#61
(Original post by happysunshine)
Let's not be stupid, a chocholate bar is nothing compared to what he did. If you are punished for rape or murder, then there is no way you are a worthy citizen. I don't care if you think other people don't have rights to determine what people can and can't have, if you've been sentenced and done someting really wrong, why the ---- should you have a luxuery life whilst nice, normal people battle on with money struggles?
But if you don't think he's repaid his debt, then surely he shouldn't be released from prison? It's inconsistent to say "20 years + £7 milllion fine" for you, but just "20 years for you, no fine because you didn't win the lottery."
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Fleffzilla
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#62
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#62
(Original post by Amb1)
Reacclimatising someone into the community shouldn't be about the use of resources within that community. It should be about being outside, in public places, with members of the public. Not about doing every possible thing that a free person is able to do. That should wait until he is freed.
That could be a whole new debate in another thread... But it fits in nicely here, too
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jpowell
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#63
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#63
(Original post by happysunshine)
All his rights were gone after what he did, sure he bought the ticket but he has no right to the money as an everyday good citizen does.
Under what law do you think someone loses their rights when they go to jail? I do agree that he shouldn't have any rights, but as it is now, he does have rights and he should be allowed to keep his money. Imagine the uproar amongst the liberals if you tried to take away the rights of all criminals .
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happysunshine
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Fleff)
Because life's not fair, it's far from perfect. But that's how it is. Maybe it shouldn't be.
In a perfect world he wouldn't have raped them in the first place. I can see where you're coming from, and I empathise with your view, but I still disagree with you, the money is his, in my opinion. No one but him should have the right to say what it is spent on.
Well I disagree, I'd like to agree but he imo has no rights.
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happysunshine
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#65
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#65
(Original post by fishpaste)
But if you don't think he's repaid his debt, then surely he shouldn't be released from prison? It's inconsistent to say "20 years + £7 milllion fine" for you, but just "20 years for you, no fine because you didn't win the lottery."
It's not a fine.
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happysunshine
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#66
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#66
(Original post by AntiMagicMan)
Under what law do you think someone loses their rights when they go to jail? I do agree that he shouldn't have any rights, but as it is now, he does have rights and he should be allowed to keep his money. Imagine the uproar amongst the liberals if you tried to take away the rights of all criminals .
I don't care about laws, I mean clearly he didn't.
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Fleffzilla
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#67
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#67
(Original post by happysunshine)
Well I disagree, I'd like to agree but he imo has no rights.
It would be nice for once on D&D if everyone did agree, although I suppose that would eradicate the whole point of D&D... *gets lost in thoughts of arguement-less threads*...

He still has rights, not many, but they are there. Like if someone raped him (now that would be ironic) in prison, he would have a right to prosecute the other prisoner.
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happysunshine
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#68
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#68
(Original post by Fleff)

He still has rights, not many, but they are there. Like if someone raped him (now that would be ironic) in prison, he would have a right to prosecute the other prisoner.
Maybe. But people like him shouldn't have a nice life, a better than most... definitely not.
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Fleffzilla
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#69
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#69
(Original post by happysunshine)
Maybe. But people like him shouldn't have a nice life, a better than most... definitely not.
I'd agree with that, he doesn't deserve to have the money. But what he deserves doesn't count, unfotunately. Unless at his trial, the judge said that he would have to pay compensation to his victims, I don't see how the law can justify taking that money away from him, and giving it to someone else. It would be a perfect world if everyone got what they deserved.
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Amb1
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#70
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#70
(Original post by Fleff)
That could be a whole new debate in another thread... But it fits in nicely here, too
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Muse
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#71
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#71
(Original post by Fleff)
Unless at his trial, the judge said that he would have to pay compensation to his victims, I don't see how the law can justify taking that money away from him,
by victims suing him through civil courts. possible, but difficult as he was convicted in 1989.
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tkfmbp
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#72
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#72
(Original post by happysunshine)
Let's not be stupid, a chocholate bar is nothing compared to what he did. If you are punished for rape or murder, then there is no way you are a worthy citizen. I don't care if you think other people don't have rights to determine what people can and can't have, if you've been sentenced and done someting really wrong, why the ---- should you have a luxuery life whilst nice, normal people battle on with money struggles?

Because its a random game. he took his chance, he got lucky. Let him get on with it. And in any case, the point wasn't to equate rape and choclate theft, more to point out the fact that no-one is perfect. so what would you have us do, allow people who's crimes or actions are tolerable to society to win the lottery and take money of those who's aren't? Sounds a bit wishy washy from someone who says that normal people battle with money struggles.

And anyway, consider this, should persons A and B both be struggling with money as you describe, and are both honourable citizens of the world, then if person A wins, would you campaign for some money to be given to B because (s)he too struggles ? No. So why do it now ? The lottery is a game of chance. He got lucky. So what, it doesn't affect all the other people living with struggles because they wouldn't have won anyway if he hadn't. The only people who 'lose out' are the other £7m winners who might have won £11.5m, but i can't see them being that bothered, can you ?
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Muse
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#73
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#73
(Original post by tkfmbp)
And anyway, consider this, should persons A and B both be struggling with money as you describe, and are both honourable citizens of the world, then if person A wins, would you campaign for some money to be given to B because (s)he too struggles ? No. So why do it now ?
probably because persons A/B are not currently serving a life term in custody. legal experts have already stated that he could be forced to pay compensation to people he attacked, and with a bit of luck the home sec with intervene.

it's all very well saying the lottery is a game of chance etc. etc, but the issue is that the prisoner is still in debt to society and as he isn't able to enter betting shops/buy premium bonds/enter casinos/play the national pools, he shouldn't beable to win lottery money either.

since he has now been moved to a catagory C prison (from catagory D) due to possible revenge attacks from other prisoners, with a bit of luck someone will do him in and liberalist "let him spend it all" groups will have nothing to moan about.
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Fleffzilla
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#74
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#74
(Original post by timeofyourlife)
by victims suing him through civil courts. possible, but difficult as he was convicted in 1989.
On what grounds?
"He raped me in 1989 (or before) and he won the lottery the other day, I think I deserve some of his money"? :rolleyes: Sorry, but I don't buy it. They want money, to have a better life, which they deserve, BUT (and this is a big 'but') that money was won 15 years after he was sentenced. He has served 15 years in prison for the crime he comitted. THAT is his punishment, as stated by the judge at his trial.

Yes, rape is unforgiveable, but no, it does not justify £7m to be given to someones victims 15 years after they've been sencenced, after they won £7m on the lottery.

That's 15 years ago! The whole point of prison is to punish someone for their actions, there should not be additionaly punishments on top of that, unless these are stated when his sentence is given (I.e. 3 years in prison, and 76 hours of community service.) or if the person in question has done an additional thing wrong.
At the time of this mans trial, the sentence that was given was 'xx years in prison' not 'xx years in prison, and £7m in compensation to your victims, if, on the off chance, 15 years down the line, you happen to win the lottery'.
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Muse
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#75
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#75
(Original post by Fleff)
On what grounds?
through the civil court for damages, as the convicted has aquired extra financial funding. it mentions this possibility in most newspapers, but unfortunately i doubt the victims are at an age where they would like to re-live their experiences in court.

QUOTES:

Legal experts say Hoare could be forced to pay compensation to people he attacked

Home Office minister Hazel Blears told BBC Radio 4's Today programme she hoped "somebody somewhere is thinking about the possibility of civil proceedings for damages".
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Fleffzilla
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#76
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#76
(Original post by timeofyourlife)
through the civil court for damages, as the convicted has aquired extra financial funding. it mentions this possibility in most newspapers, but unfortunately i doubt the victims are at an age where they would like to re-live their experiences in court.

QUOTES:

Legal experts say Hoare could be forced to pay compensation to people he attacked

Home Office minister Hazel Blears told BBC Radio 4's Today programme she hoped "somebody somewhere is thinking about the possibility of civil proceedings for damages".
So what if he had, say, very rich relatives. He served his time in prison, and his relatives died 10 years after he was out, when he had a respectable job. Would they still be allowed to claim money because he has acquired extra financial funding from his relatives dieing?
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Muse
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#77
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#77
(Original post by Fleff)
So what if he had, say, very rich relatives. He served his time in prison, and his relatives died 10 years after he was out, when he had a respectable job. Would they still be allowed to claim money because he has acquired extra financial funding from his relatives dieing?
the point is that he hasn't served his time in prison, and is still open to civil damages.
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Fleffzilla
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#78
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#78
(Original post by timeofyourlife)
the point is that he hasn't served his time in prison, and is still open to civil damages.
I still don't agree with it though...
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Muse
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#79
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#79
(Original post by Fleff)
I still don't agree with it though...
you think that the loophole shouldn't be closed by the home sec? why do you think he isn't allowed to gamble in betting shops/buy premium bonds etc? the only reason it wasn't considered before is that there was such a small probability of it occuring.

IMO, he should be greatful he's not serving a proper life term, like his sentencing suggests - not arguing over the financial gain he has acquired while at prison.
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Fleffzilla
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#80
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#80
(Original post by timeofyourlife)
you think that the loophole shouldn't be closed by the home sec? why do you think he isn't allowed to gamble in betting shops/buy premium bonds etc? the only reason it wasn't considered before is that there was such a small probability of it occuring.

IMO, he should be greatful he's not serving a proper life term, like his sentencing suggests - not arguing over the financial gain he has acquired while at prison.
No, I think the loophole should be closed. But at the present time, it isn't, which means, at the present time, I think he is entitled to his money.
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