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NDGAARONDI
What are your views on those who kill then?


Hanging :biggrin:.
dave134
Many would consider it wrong that anyone can have a swish lifestyle that they haven't earnt, crook or not.

That is the lottery for you. If you and a serial rapist both buy a ticket, then there is equal chance of you both matching 6 numbers. (13,983,816 to 1 if you want to be precise)

Say instead of the lottery, he was left a large inheritance of £7million. Would you feel the same way?


I know that.

Probably not, it seems that someone like him does not deserve to be that lucky.
Reply 122
timeofyourlife
he hasn't served his sentence yet though, that's the issue.


Well then he serves his sentence and gets the money when he is released.
The article itself says what he did was legal... they're allowed to play the lottery while serving their sentence, why disallow then winning?
happysunshine
Hanging :biggrin:.


You might change your opinion if you got married and had to puit up with being beaten often, perhaps raped yourself. And you go and kill your partner in a fit of rage. Bet you shouldn't think you will be hung now I bet. So here we have a woman who doesn't believe in Battered Women Syndrome because obviously if you kill you should be hung. Great.

Or you patheticly looked after your children at the sea side and left your 2 year old toddler by the beach who wondered off to a near by train track and got struck by an incoming train and subsequently died.
NDGAARONDI
You might change your opinion if you got married and had to puit up with being beaten often, perhaps raped yourself. And you go and kill your partner in a fit of rage. Bet you shouldn't think you will be hung now I bet. So here we have a woman who doesn't believe in Battered Women Syndrome because obviously if you kill you should be hung. Great.

Or you patheticly looked after your children at the sea side and left your 2 year old toddler by the beach who wondered off to a near by train track and got struck by an incoming train and subsequently died.


Hanging for people like Huntley, Fred & Rose West, Harold Shipman etc., the reasons you mentioned for murder aren't acceptable but they are far more understandable. You cannot compare Fred and Rose West's rapes and murders with accidently letting your child out of your sight.
happysunshine
Hanging for people like Huntley, Fred & Rose West, Harold Shipman etc., the reasons you mentioned for murder aren't acceptable but they are far more understandable. You cannot compare Fred and Rose West's rapes and murders with accidently letting your child out of your sight.


Why not? I asked a simple question on your thoughts on those who kill and you said they should be hung. I never distinguished between anything else. Which means that they must be acceptable according to your response earlier. I believe you wish to slightly alter that now.
NDGAARONDI
Why not? I asked a simple question on your thoughts on those who kill and you said they should be hung. I never distinguished between anything else. Which means that they must be acceptable according to your response earlier. I believe you wish to slightly alter that now.


I don't wish to alter anything, thank you very much. You seem to think a law or a crime covers everyone, yet you have to realise to each case their are different circumstances to each case.
happysunshine
You seem to think a law or a crime covers everyone, yet you have to realise to each case their are different circumstances to each case.


Expand please.
Reply 128
happysunshine
Hanging for people like Huntley, Fred & Rose West, Harold Shipman etc., the reasons you mentioned for murder aren't acceptable but they are far more understandable. You cannot compare Fred and Rose West's rapes and murders with accidently letting your child out of your sight.


So in some cases it is acceptable to kill and in others it isn't. You say that Ian Huntley should be killed even though there is a fair amount of evidence that suggests that he may be mentally ill. I know that cases which involve children are always very emotive but I really don't feel that they should be treated any differently to the murders of adults. Do you think that parents should be punished if their child gets killed in their care. What about a man who causes the death of two people by dangerous driving. I think that you would feel differently if you looked at these people as human being which they are. Then you have the problem that the person may be not guilty after you have hung them. I think that it is just to risky to execute people.

In reguards to the lottery. Maybe the law should be changed to prevent people who are serviving prison sentances from buying lottery tickets. However like I have said before this should not effect this man because he has already won. The sad fact of the matter is that good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people. The whole point of the lottery is that it is random and anyone can win. In this case this man won. Just because he has raped women doesn't mean that he isn't entitled to his money.
randdom
So in some cases it is acceptable to kill and in others it isn't. You say that Ian Huntley should be killed even though there is a fair amount of evidence that suggests that he may be mentally ill. I know that cases which involve children are always very emotive but I really don't feel that they should be treated any differently to the murders of adults. Do you think that parents should be punished if their child gets killed in their care. What about a man who causes the death of two people by dangerous driving. I think that you would feel differently if you looked at these people as human being which they are. Then you have the problem that the person may be not guilty after you have hung them. I think that it is just to risky to execute people.

In reguards to the lottery. Maybe the law should be changed to prevent people who are serviving prison sentances from buying lottery tickets. However like I have said before this should not effect this man because he has already won. The sad fact of the matter is that good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people. The whole point of the lottery is that it is random and anyone can win. In this case this man won. Just because he has raped women doesn't mean that he isn't entitled to his money.


You could say all wrong-doers are mentally ill, because they do things that normal people wouldn't. However in most cases, they do know exactly what they are doing and if you want to call this a mental illness, do so, but it wont stop them doing crimes again, and possibly KILL AGAIN. Well, the examples you used are all different, and yes, a life was lost but different intentions were envolved. I feel a drunk driver who kills someone should be punished a lot, but not recieve the same punishment of real cruel people like Fred & Rose West, which you have to admit are different because of the vast amount of lives they ruined. I agree, there is that chance, however innocent people are at risk, but punishment by death should only be used in extreme cases.

I know bad can happen to good and vica versa, but surely you would want to prevent bad happening to good? As you would good happening to bad? Clearly, no one is going to agree on the subject, but he broke laws, his rights were taken away when he acted like he did, why should he have laws protecting him now?
Reply 130
happysunshine
I know bad can happen to good and vica versa, but surely you would want to prevent bad happening to good? As you would good happening to bad? Clearly, no one is going to agree on the subject, but he broke laws, his rights were taken away when he acted like he did, why should he have laws protecting him now?


Don't you think that he may feel remorse? One of the good things about living in this country is that everyone is protected by the law. I wouldn't like to live in a country where prisoners have no rights whatsoever. The way I see it he has been punished having been in prison for nearly 15 years. He is about to be fully released and yes maybe this money could go to someone more deserving but it isn't. Like I said the law should probably be changed now but it will not effect him.
randdom
I wouldn't like to live in a country where prisoners have no rights whatsoever.


A lot of these countries where prisoners have no rights are not exactly 'good' ones, one of which is Iran.

randdom
The way I see it he has been punished having been in prison for nearly 15 years.


That's quite a long time. I've seen people commit bigger crimes and receive more lenient sentences than him.

randdom
He is about to be fully released and yes maybe this money could go to someone more deserving but it isn't.


Has he expressed his spending intentions? He's quite old now so perhaps his relatives could benefit or soemthing.
Reply 132
mik1a
Well then he serves his sentence and gets the money when he is released.
The article itself says what he did was legal... they're allowed to play the lottery while serving their sentence, why disallow then winning?


i know it's perfectly legal at the moment, so the only option is the victims suing through the civil courts and the home sec to close the loophole to stop it happening to anyone else.

with a bit of luck he'll be struck by lightning and die painfully on the day of his release, but what would be the odds of that happening? :cool:
timeofyourlife
with a bit of luck he'll be struck by lightning and die painfully on the day of his release, but what would be the odds of that happening? :cool:


Most of the time if you're struck by lightning you die instantly, or not long enough to feel anything, that is what I thought. You can survive from being thunderstruck but that is so rare.
Reply 134
NDGAARONDI
Most of the time if you're struck by lightning you die instantly, or not long enough to feel anything, that is what I thought. You can survive from being thunderstruck but that is so rare.


:rolleyes: thank you for that gem of normality. okay then, i'll poke his eyes out with a skewer before the lightning storm.
Reply 135
NDGAARONDI
You might change your opinion if you got married and had to put up with being beaten often, perhaps raped yourself. And you go and kill your partner in a fit of rage. Bet you shouldn't think you will be hung now I bet.


If you were to kill your partner in a fit of rage in some circumstances, then it would be most likely that a defence of both provocation and self defence could be argued sucessfully in a court. This would make the death 'lawful' and as such, not murder or indeed a 'homicide' under English Law
tkfmbp
If you were to kill your partner in a fit of rage in some circumstances, then it would be most likely that a defence of both provocation and self defence could be argued sucessfully in a court. This would make the death 'lawful' and as such, not murder or indeed a 'homicide' under English Law


If it is lawful then you would be entitled to an acquittal, not a reduced charge. My point is that I asked a simple question on those who kill to her, and as before, I stated that it covered everything and not just murder alone. But unfortunately she replied believing they should be hung and never expanded on that.

Sometimes when you kill in a fit of rage you are do not always qualify for either partial defence - R v Cocker (1989) illustrates this.

A homicide just means a killing.
Reply 137
NDGAARONDI
Most of the time if you're struck by lightning you die instantly, or not long enough to feel anything, that is what I thought. You can survive from being thunderstruck but that is so rare.


Not true. A lightning stroke may stop your hearth, and that is usually what kills you, but it is not uncommon that people survive, though they typically get quite severe burns.

It all depends on how powerful the lightning stroke is, and what shape your hearth is in. A very powerful thunderbolt will fry your nerves and spine killing you instantaneously, but a weaker one can be merely extremely painful. Also, if the rain has wet your clothes a lot, it is quite possble that the current is lead around the body rather than through it.
Jonatan
Not true. A lightning stroke may stop your hearth, and that is usually what kills you, but it is not uncommon that people survive, though they typically get quite severe burns.


Shocking :biggrin:
Reply 139
happysunshine
You could say all wrong-doers are mentally ill, because they do things that normal people wouldn't. However in most cases, they do know exactly what they are doing and if you want to call this a mental illness, do so, but it wont stop them doing crimes again, and possibly KILL AGAIN. Well, the examples you used are all different, and yes, a life was lost but different intentions were envolved. I feel a drunk driver who kills someone should be punished a lot, but not recieve the same punishment of real cruel people like Fred & Rose West, which you have to admit are different because of the vast amount of lives they ruined. I agree, there is that chance, however innocent people are at risk, but punishment by death should only be used in extreme cases.
All of which is irrelevant to the topic discussed here. If you wish to discuss the death penatly perhaps it would be better to start a new thread.

I know bad can happen to good and vica versa, but surely you would want to prevent bad happening to good? As you would good happening to bad? Clearly, no one is going to agree on the subject, but he broke laws, his rights were taken away when he acted like he did
Wrong. Hoare still clearly had rights, it's just that some of his rights that he had a free citizen were taken away from him. For example, in prison he had the right not to be beaten up, the right to be fed, the right for some recreational time. The fact that he was let out on weekend release clearly demonstrates that those in the prison felt he was rehabilitated to the extent where he could be allowed to readjust to life in society. So the real question is
, why should he have laws protecting him now?

Even then, this isn't the real question, because there are no explicit laws protecting Hoare and his money. Hoare is entitled to his money because there is no one law which says his winnings should be redistributed because of his crimes, and there was no law in place which said that prisoners could not play the lottery. In this way, Hoare did not and has not contravened the law, and when he is released from prison, as a free agent he will be entitled to keep the money.

To say the law is protecting Hoare is a lie. However, that does not mean that it would be unreasonable to change the law so that prisoners, in future, cannot play the lottery whilst in custody. In the meantime, there is nothing that the government can do to strip him of his wealth. As was said, life is unfair, deal with it.

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